Backcut vs Tapered Shoe
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Backcut vs Tapered Shoe

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    Senior Member Ahsumtoy's Avatar
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    Default Backcut vs Tapered Shoe

    I would like to know what are the Pro's and Con's of using either a backcut or tapered shoe on a Gullwing.

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    Senior Member cyclone's Avatar
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    Back cut shoes work well on gullwings. They lower the front of the ride plate in relation to the bottom of the boat and provide some measure of lift. The photos you see of gullwings that run really dry and aired out....most of those boats have back cut shoes.

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    Senior Member TNYoungblood's Avatar
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    Default Finally a Good Thread !!!!!!!!

    I had a tapered shoe on my boat when I 1st bought it and the boat rode real flat and i'm sure the horsepower level didn't help matters either .. Last winter I redone the bottom and went to a backcut shoe and it really freed the boat up but I also added some horsepower so its really hard to tell what going to the shoe really done .. I am getting alot better pressure reading off the pump with the backcut.. I would have liked to try it with the original engine in it just to see what the gains were but never got the chance.. I still have some tuning to do with the boat but I fill the backcut shoe was 1 of the best changes I have made ..


    Here is a pic with the tapered shoe in it


    And here is a pic with the backcut shoe (sorry for the cell phone pic)
    Last edited by TNYoungblood; 01-05-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclone View Post
    The photos you see of gullwings that run really dry and aired out....most of those boats have back cut shoes.
    That pretty much says it all. Change MOST to SOME and it'll be perfect. Each boat is different. There is no hard and fast rule of thumb. The lighter the Boat, the less hardware and setup it will need to achieve the desired lift. We have 8 different shoes here, and have tried them all against gps and the clocks, along with 5 different grates from every manufacturer.

    To find what's best for yours, you'll have to try some combinations and settle on what works best for the conditions that prevail where you boat. It will be a compromise that you settle on. RR has one combo for Lost lake, and one for Lake Ming. We also have an untried combo for Elsinore that should work well.

    Good luck in your testing.
    Last edited by Turtle; 01-05-2012 at 07:52 AM.

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    "BOATLESS" blender over's Avatar
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    I gained 4mph by simply switching from a tapered to a backcut on motor alone.
    Heavy 19 ft CP.

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    What are the pro's and con's of each of these on a pickle fork tunnel?

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    B1 Racing cs19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    What are the pro's and con's of each of these on a pickle fork tunnel?
    Tunnels are different, you wouldnt apply a gullwing type setup to a tunnel unless its underpowered and or heavy.

    If your running tapered hardware on a gullwing and its setup real shallow like alot of them are and you go to backcut and get the biting edge of the shoe in the area it should be you should see a real solid improvement. Tapered hardware has its place on some gullwings but its not real common.
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    Senior Member bp298's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lildave View Post
    What are the pro's and con's of each of these on a pickle fork tunnel?
    same as there are on anything else. and there are no cons. each shoe is designed to perform specific functions. once that's completely understood, you determine a good shoe for the application, and then test to fine tune to optimize performance.

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    Senior Member Lildave's Avatar
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    Okay.... Let me rephrase that I guess... In a very heavy lake boat where you are not necessarily trying to squeeze every .10th of a second out of, but want a setup that works well.... What type of shoe would be ideal to start with? What have you guys seen work well?

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    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    That pretty much says it all. Change MOST to SOME and it'll be perfect. Each boat is different. There is no hard and fast rule of thumb. The lighter the Boat, the less hardware and setup it will need to achieve the desired lift. We have 8 different shoes here, and have tried them all against gps and the clocks, along with 5 different grates from every manufacturer.
    .

    Then throw in 4 nozzels = 8x5x4 = 160 different combinations....... makes for a long weekend at the river.




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    Resident Ford Nut Sleeper CP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsumtoy View Post
    I would like to know what are the Pro's and Con's of using either a backcut or tapered shoe on a Gullwing.


    As stated; back-cut = lift.

    But I found out it can also = low water volume to a large impeller that eats lots of water. resulting in low intake psi.

    Steve, it's all a balancing act. Greg Shoe( in 2007) told me to build a flat shoe with a large opening ( I think I'm at 13"+, I'll check when I get home). Currently the shoe sits even with the keel and feeds the impeller well. I plan on having yet another back-cut made (have 3) with a larger opening than the last to see what I can get out of it, but you can only get the opening so big on a back-cut then you loose surface( ride/lift) area. I've run them in the past and liked them, but when the current engine went in spinning the MPD "B" over 6,000 off the nos as the boat got out of the water the intake psi would drop and I couldn't get it back. Ended up talking to Shoe and he suggested the flat shoe. It's been in the boat since then.

    If the back-cut helps the boat more in the first 300-500 ft to get the tail out of the water, it might be all you (I ) need for river racing.

    You're going to have to play with them a bit for your combo. With your 900+ hp and Alumi engine getting lift shouldn't be much of an issue.

    S CP

    Jon
    Last edited by Sleeper CP; 01-05-2012 at 05:44 PM.

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    Senior Member StressExpress's Avatar
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    Back Cut shoe is a great Idea with the Gullwing...

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    Senior Member zacho!'s Avatar
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    Default not tryin to f' with this thread, but...

    Can you expect similar results (winger vs. very well set up v-hull) when swapping shoes? I currently have a flat shoe, pump that loads well and wonder the results of changing shoes. i know the answer is try and finger it out your self, BUT, its always good to hear results from people that have been there. Kachina 18', cavities never. 550-600 hp. thx

  16. #14
    B1 Racing cs19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacho! View Post
    Can you expect similar results (winger vs. very well set up v-hull) when swapping shoes? I currently have a flat shoe, pump that loads well and wonder the results of changing shoes. i know the answer is try and finger it out your self, BUT, its always good to hear results from people that have been there. Kachina 18', cavities never. 550-600 hp. thx
    Definatly. All V bottoms should respond to back cut hardware.

    Too often people just borrow a shoe and bolt on a backcut shoe without getting the same biting edge as previos flat or tapered shoe, this isnt a good test. For a good test you would need the biting edge identical going from flat to back cut.
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