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Topic Review (Newest First)

  • 12-13-2010, 08:24 AM
    David 519
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad @ SCJB View Post
    I sold my MSD setup and now have a mag. Enough of the MSD debate. Sorry, I am not even interested in entertaining the idea at the moment.

    Any answers to my original MAGNETO questions?
    I never ran a Mallory mag nor an external rev limiter. With a Vertex, doesn't seem to take many cranking RPM to start. MSD recommends going to 16v for the ProMags if cranking RPM is a problem, but we do fine with 12 v in our blown alcohol motor. Most mags require tighter spark gap, like 0.18". To be honest, I can't imagine a pump generating much load at cranking RPM so maybe you have a timing issue
  • 12-13-2010, 04:55 AM
    Hass828
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad @ SCJB View Post
    I sold my MSD setup and now have a mag. Enough of the MSD debate. Sorry, I am not even interested in entertaining the idea at the moment.

    Any answers to my original MAGNETO questions?
    You'll like it.

    All this "ground this--vibration isolate that--run two #8's to that--shielded wire to that--dont get the wires crossed to that--or the factory crossed the wires to that" , Damn.
    Use the self contained mag and if it makes you feel better keep a spare. If I was towing across the country to a race I would. But I'd want as many spare parts as I could carry in that situation. You can change it out as quick as these guys can change a cap & rotor.
  • 12-13-2010, 12:25 AM
    Brad @ SCJB
    I sold my MSD setup and now have a mag. Enough of the MSD debate. Sorry, I am not even interested in entertaining the idea at the moment.

    Any answers to my original MAGNETO questions?
  • 12-12-2010, 02:44 PM
    gn7
    Does anybody really believe that with the money on the line in Nascar and Pro stock that those guys would run a ignition that was a cross your fingers and pray deal. Like Cyclone and bp said, they will live. I don't lkie saying they have failed because I F'd up, but its the truth. If they just died for no reason, I would dump them tomorrow. And they wouldn'tsell a million of them a year. They sell more ignitions in one week than the mag guys do in a year. Must be a reason.



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  • 12-12-2010, 12:32 PM
    bp298
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Also, we run a #10 wire to the battery, an its only 2 ft long. A #12, 5 or 6 ft long could spell trouble.

    And the number 1 thing that I have seen take out boxes by far. Slow ass cranking with a huge am draw that pulls the voltage to the box down while cranking. It will blow the fuse every time.
    i ran 2 #8 wires, about 10' 15 years ago. the distributor and coil wires are shielded/grounded, and run about 8'. 15 years ago, i installed an msd billet dist, blaster coil and 6m box; ran it on lakes for 5 years with the old ironhead slow engine, never had a problem. i can't remember ever changing plugs, cap/rotor either, but memory fades. if i did, it was maybe one time - the thing always ran fine, as well as it could.
    when we built this engine, i used the same billet distributor and blaster coil, but changed to a 7al2. ran the same plugs for over a year without any issues whatsoever. but at the 4th race the first year, on t&t day, the engine started missing down track. the cap center post was completely worn away. hunted from madera to merced, finally found one. had to change cap/rotor once more before the season was over. i've never gone to any race without a spare cap/rotor since. the engine was only slightly more than 10.5 -1 at the time.
    3 years ago, we switched to a digital 7, crank trigger, and the recommended recommended hvc II coil. 2 years ago, had to replace the original distributor because it would no longer fit with the new intake - had to go to the flat one. this ignition still eats caps and rotors, but now it also eats spark plugs. and watching the data, i can tell whenever one or the other has just about had it.

    i've been in the middle of texas, had the starter start going away to the point i had to hit the button then flip the switch all day sunday. never bothered the box at all. over the last 10 years, i've had a handful of ignition related issues - and i can take credit for all of it. all dumb stuff that should have never happened, fixed within a few minutes after it's figured out, which sometimes takes awhile. when you're in a mid-race thrash, it's always good to have another set of eyes and another brain helping; it would be way easier to just blame the box and give up. i've gone through an entire weekend, warmups plus 10 passes, without the alternator working - voltage got down to less than 10 volts, and the thing never missed a beat. an msd box puts out one helluvan emi; just set a data logger next to it and see how well it likes it. 7 is worse than 6, and the digital 7 is worse than both of 'em.
    these things are much more rugged than people want to believe. i've towed this thing on a road trailer all over the country - talk about vibration, just try towing over i-40 through oklahoma - way worse than towing up i-5 through ca and oregon. i've had box vibration dampers completely break apart, just towing, and i always have spares. the stuff gets wet, it gets hot and it gets cold. and it still works. the two bracket guys i know that run vertex mags always carry complete spare mags; and it seems like at least once a year, they'll need 'em.
  • 12-12-2010, 09:36 AM
    cyclone
    I've not had a single msd failure ever. My stuff gets wet, is mounted directly to the engine and my engine turns 7,500 rpm on the bottle. Pick the correct box and coil for your application, Use the vibration mounts, wire it correctly and you won't have problems.
  • 12-11-2010, 09:32 PM
    gn7
    Jim, I don't see a single thing about the Nascar box that is different excpt the plug being a weather pak. and we do that to our boxes after we get them. The Off Road box is very similar to the Marine box which also requires a seperate rev limiter. (except the new M6-2al) The problem with bothj is, if you bolow soemthing as simple as a fuse in either, they will not fix them. I think they could have their fuse replaced, but would require some digging into it, and they just are not willing to do that. Hate the idea of tossing a box just because of a fuse. We had one box ten years ago chafe a wire inside due to vibration, which they repaired for free. never had another single failure due to vibration. Never had a box go bad due to water. If you open a standard 6al box you will find they are sealed way better than most people think. I have seen boxes go the bottom of the lake and still work after being dried out. And more than once. We have one M6-2. I doubt I would buy another. Just do not like the non repairability.
    )



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  • 12-11-2010, 03:35 PM
    sanger rat
  • 12-11-2010, 12:58 PM
    Squirtin Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    For the money, I like this coil for N/A medium performance use. It immune to vibration, and its a E coil and runs pretty cool. Also notice that the primary and secondary are seperated pretty well by the coil body itself.SS blaster coil

    for blown, and NOS deals I like this a little better. Notice the primary and secondary are seperate, and there is a dam around the secondary. This is a hot coil that is almost indestructable:MSD HVC coil

    Bob, the Comp Jets have really stepped up big, we are all in the 12-1 + range making 650+hp. I can say mine is 13.5-1 and is 513ci making around 800hp, Brad is right there as well (same engine different heads). My target rpm is 6200 with an Agressor A impeller. The last race I had a Haritage bronze B in it and was tapping my 7K chip. Will these coils stand up to that ? I was also doing research on the boxes and saw they made one for circle racing with out a limiter and then the Nascar box with one. They say they are built stronger & can hold up better at higher rpm, are they pulling our leg or what ? The price increase over the 6al is huge, is it worth the cost ?

    Brad, sorry for jumping in just trying to get some answers to help us both.

    Anyone else that has info is more than welcome to step in.
  • 12-10-2010, 05:22 PM
    gn7
    Jim, you bring up a valid point. Alot of people don't think about the coil. And even less think about the spark plug wires. Impatient wrote a post somewhere about testing a brand new set of wires. They were junk. Brand new! Don't remember if he mentioned the name. But he bought a set of Bosch over the counter wires that had great resistance numbers. If the wires put up to much fight, it will send the spark else where. Between the cylinder pressure, the fuel, the wire, and the plug gap, there are alot of nicer looking targets. Everybody assumes the spark will go where it belongs. Its lazy. It takes the easiest path, and doesn't have to think about it. Physics controls its destiny.

    I would add a power tower and grease it up to the stock can if you already have it. You guys aren't looking at the cylinder pressure of a blower deal. I don't like the tin can coil because the coil rattles in there like a pea in a can. Vibration kills em. the Hi vibration epoxy coil runs too hot for my tastes. They are known to fry.

    For the money, I like this coil for N/A medium performance use. It immune to vibration, and its a E coil and runs pretty cool. Also notice that the primary and secondary are seperated pretty well by the coil body itself.SS blaster coil

    for blown, and NOS deals I like this a little better. Notice the primary and secondary are seperate, and there is a dam around the secondary. This is a hot coil that is almost indestructable:MSD HVC coil

    I have no opinion about the 8253 coil. Seems like the price is a little high for what it is.

    Just so you know. FC Pilot/Wannabe were selling Holley Annihilator coils on the cheap. They may still have some. They are an E type totally enclosed coil.



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  • 12-10-2010, 05:05 PM
    Squirtin Thunder
    OK Bob I am trying to figure out what coil to replace the Blaster2 (It is a new one) with or is it fine for what we are doing ? I am kind of really liking the 8253 ($173), 8252 ($125) & 8207 ($41). But from what I am seeing the Blaster2 puts out more volts. I have never given the coil all that much thought.
  • 12-10-2010, 04:15 PM
    gn7
    Jim, there is no doubt that MSD's QC and business model has slipped since they sold the company. Maybe it because they are trying to compete with www.YOU KNOW WHO or they cut back to help pay back the investment they spent buying the company. But it isn't the same company it was 5 years ago.

    I have gotten to where I fix the blown fuses myself. To date I have yet to have a box fail for any other reason. Not saying it can't, or hasn't happened. Just hasn't happened to me yet. But MSD has to get their act together, or someone else will. Mallory went though this with the unilites years ago and now look at their sales and following now. But I will try a Mallory or I.C.E.or anything else if I have any troubles with MSD that I can't blame on myself.



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  • 12-10-2010, 03:36 PM
    Squirtin Thunder
    Quote Originally Posted by gn7 View Post
    Not saying they are perfect. They aren't. But they take a bad rap for things they shouldn't.
    Think about the money on the line everytime a Nascar enters the track, or a Pro stock comes to the line. Think they would use MSDs if they were that faulty? I will guarantee you this. they are installed to the nth degree, and they are using the good stuff. Not a tin can coil to be found on any of them, and they are using sparkplug wire with about a 50 ohm per foot rating.
    Bob back quite a few years ago when we got our MSD boxes, when I worked at MB2 Motorsports, and they came in real nice hard plastic boxes full of foam and there were two bright red perfect MSD boxes in each one. Now most of the stuff we get are thrown around at Summit Jegs or where ever and then UPS or the US Postal Service gets them and does the same thing, I would hate to see what FedX does to them. Up untill this last race I never had a problem with MSD and I swore that if I did I would use something else. The problem is there is really nothing else out there that you can get that has the same bag for the buck.
  • 12-10-2010, 12:36 PM
    gn7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad @ SCJB View Post
    I'm not gunna argue with you nor try to prove that I had my setup wired correctly. but I have had problems with my setup, send it to MSD, they say they fixed it....even had a coil arching to a post.

    I had a 6AL box and had some serious sputtering issues at top end. I chased this issues for months....finally I borrowed a supermag and the problem went away. I sent the 6AL box to MSD, they said there was no issues with it....I then rewired the entire boat......I had 12 gauge wire run from the box straight to the battery terminals and attached solid. The box died stone cold after the 1st heat of running it. Call it what you want - bottom line in my book is its unreliable.
    Brad, I understand your frustration. But let me point out a couple of things that jumped at me in this post. First, coil arcing to the terminals is as common as air and dirt. Read this thread:http://www.performanceboats.com/show...-coil-question
    Number one reason it does that, crappy spark plug wires. Also, too wide a gap at the plug, bad plug, and compression. MSDs are also the most misunderstood, most abused ignition in the world. You wouldn't run cast pistons and a cast crank in a blown alky deal, but you'll run a Blaster Street coil in a 12-12.5 to 1 jet boat. The tin can blaster coil is just that, a middle of the road, low dollar street coil. Ask it to fire a 6500 12 to 1 motor, and it might arc to the terminals. don't blame the coil. It was never designed to do that. And arcing to the termainals can take down the box.
    Also, we run a #10 wire to the battery, an its only 2 ft long. A #12, 5 or 6 ft long could spell trouble.

    And the number 1 thing that I have seen take out boxes by far. Slow ass cranking with a huge am draw that pulls the voltage to the box down while cranking. It will blow the fuse every time.

    Not saying they are perfect. They aren't. But they take a bad rap for things they shouldn't.
    Think about the money on the line everytime a Nascar enters the track, or a Pro stock comes to the line. Think they would use MSDs if they were that faulty? I will guarantee you this. they are installed to the nth degree, and they are using the good stuff. Not a tin can coil to be found on any of them, and they are using sparkplug wire with about a 50 ohm per foot rating.



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