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New guy here i have some question

  1. #1
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    Default New guy here i have some question

    Hello everyone,

    My name is Dominic, I am from Nor Cal Fairfield/Vacaville area and for the last 20+ years of my life i've been a pro engine builder by trade. I always have been real big on fast street cars and drag racing, but never got into boats. Just last year i purchased my very first boat, a 1984 bayliner cx225 I/O 18' open bow. It had a 305 chevy with a dropped valve and i just finished building a 355" smallblock for it. Havent even put it in the boat yet but i hope to next week! Now, me being a novice at this im open for suggestions, this whole boat thing is so new to me i feel like i just went to my first day of high school when i signed up here! LOL!

    I have lots of questions and am very willing to learn!!! So please bare with me and my ignorant questions!!!

    So what do i need to look for in the outdrive when i pull the old engine out?
    I hear i need to replace the gimball bearing when it's apart?

    Do i really need to run a closed crankcase?

    Can i run crankcase vent into the flame arrestor?

    Do you think the volvo penta outdrive will hold up to a decent amount of power?

    Do you really need to have UL approved ignition parts? or can you use the regular car stuff. I want to run MSD but not sure if i need to use the "Marine Only" stuff.

    How do i know if i have the correct prop?

    I hope i didint over extent my welcome with all these ignorant questions but im hoping someone is willing to give me some good advise!!

    Thank's!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Uncle Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
    Hello everyone,

    My name is Dominic, I am from Nor Cal Fairfield/Vacaville area and for the last 20+ years of my life i've been a pro engine builder by trade. I always have been real big on fast street cars and drag racing, but never got into boats. Just last year i purchased my very first boat, a 1984 bayliner cx225 I/O 18' open bow. It had a 305 chevy with a dropped valve and i just finished building a 355" smallblock for it. Havent even put it in the boat yet but i hope to next week! Now, me being a novice at this im open for suggestions, this whole boat thing is so new to me i feel like i just went to my first day of high school when i signed up here! LOL!

    I have lots of questions and am very willing to learn!!! So please bare with me and my ignorant questions!!!

    So what do i need to look for in the outdrive when i pull the old engine out?
    I hear i need to replace the gimball bearing when it's apart?

    Look for play in the gimbal and bearing and have a volvo guy look at it rather than try to do this part yoruself as you dont have the tools.

    Do i really need to run a closed crankcase?

    No

    Can i run crankcase vent into the flame arrestor?

    Yes

    Do you think the volvo penta outdrive will hold up to a decent amount of power?

    Not really on a lake it will hold up better than the ocean- all the performance guys run Merc outdrives (or derivatives like Imco or Konrad, and Ilmor has a new drive thats gaining traction - and until you start spending big money the bravos wont hold up very well above 500HP either.

    Do you really need to have UL approved ignition parts? or can you use the regular car stuff. I want to run MSD but not sure if i need to use the "Marine Only" stuff.

    Depends on if you want insurance coverage in case of an accident

    How do i know if i have the correct prop?

    the "correct prop will just barely let your boat pull to redline- youll find the holeshot and top speed are the big tradeoffs.

    I hope i didint over extent my welcome with all these ignorant questions but im hoping someone is willing to give me some good advise!!

    No problem - if you assemble a boat engine with the same specs as a car engine you will most likely cause reversion and suck water back into the engine a good boat engine should be set up a lot like an car engine built for endurance racing rather than a "drag" engine.

    You do know your boat is far from the ideal for performance right?

    My advice would be to fix it up to stock specs and enjoy it as you will quickly have very diminished returns if you spent any time on it.


    Thank's!

    Uncle Dave

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    Thank's for the advise! And i understand the boat is not a good performance platform (kinda like a "hyundai" of boats from what i understand) By no means do i ever have plans to make the boat a hot rod, but it's gotta pull its own weight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
    Hello everyone,

    My name is Dominic, I am from Nor Cal Fairfield/Vacaville area and for the last 20+ years of my life i've been a pro engine builder by trade. I always have been real big on fast street cars and drag racing, but never got into boats. Just last year i purchased my very first boat, a 1984 bayliner cx225 I/O 18' open bow. It had a 305 chevy with a dropped valve and i just finished building a 355" smallblock for it. Havent even put it in the boat yet but i hope to next week! Now, me being a novice at this im open for suggestions, this whole boat thing is so new to me i feel like i just went to my first day of high school when i signed up here! LOL!

    I have lots of questions and am very willing to learn!!! So please bare with me and my ignorant questions!!!

    So what do i need to look for in the outdrive when i pull the old engine out?
    I hear i need to replace the gimball bearing when it's apart?

    Do i really need to run a closed crankcase?

    Can i run crankcase vent into the flame arrestor?

    Do you think the volvo penta outdrive will hold up to a decent amount of power?

    Do you really need to have UL approved ignition parts? or can you use the regular car stuff. I want to run MSD but not sure if i need to use the "Marine Only" stuff.

    How do i know if i have the correct prop?

    I hope i didint over extent my welcome with all these ignorant questions but im hoping someone is willing to give me some good advise!!

    Thank's!

    It is generally a good idea to change the gimble bearing, because it is difficult to change later. I would also change the rubber bellows.

    Why wouldn't you want to run closed crankcase ventilation? The old boats fed into the flame arrestor, but it starts looking pretty greasy after a while.

    I am not familiar with the various Volvo Penta outdrives, but my guess if they are like the Mercruiser outdrives, would be no. You would need to step up to a stronger outdrive.

    Yes, use the marine ignition and generator parts. They are designed to not spark (or contain sparks), and they prevent a bilge explosion. Don't skimp there, even though I know they are a lot more expensive. A boat fire is to be avoided at all costs.

    There are a number of variables as far as props go, but the basic one is if the maximum boat speed is reached at the maximum desired engine RPM, which is usually lower than in a car (from 4600-5000 rpm). Even the highest performance engines, except in racing, don't run much above 5000 rpm.

    There are no such thing as ignorant questions. We all have to start somewhere. I'm asking questions all the time.

    It may not be a performance boat, but you don't need one starting out. You will still have the time of your life, and learn a lot doing it.

    Have fun!

    Michael
    Last edited by Michael1; 03-16-2012 at 10:53 PM.

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    ok first off if its a older volvo penta drive there is no such thing as a gimbal bearing. do you have the engine bellhousing with a really large o-ring that seals the transom off. if so it should have a stub staft that sticks out of it and that has some bearings that probably could use to be replaced from age. as far as bellows volvo service manual says they should be replaced every 2 years which i would agree they are not as thick as a mercruiser or omc bellows. and like stated by someone else you should stay with a mild marine application camshaft due to water in the exhaust reversion. i would also stay with the correct ignition that came with the engine that msd stuff does not seem to hold up well in marine applications and it would more than likely be a waste of time with a stock to mild engine. the reason for the ignition protection ratings are because of spark in a enclosed compartment. everything should be marine like ignition, alternator, and starter. and yes you can run the vlave cover breather lines to the flame arrestor which should also be used due to spark and flame in a enclosed compartment. volvo drives are one of the best drives out there for stock applications don't expect much performance out of them or the bayliner boat. not to rain on your parade they where not the greatest boats back in the '70-80's but did get a bit better in the '90-00's. things to know when you set it all up just keep the idle below 800 rpm's because volvo use a cone clutch setup for shift and a high idle will lock up the clutch and u might not be able to get it out of gear. when it comes to proping the boat if you go with a automotive camshaft it will be more than likely harder to prop cause the make peak power at higher rpm. stock marine engines make their power a bit lower in the rpm range usually 4200-5000 depending on the engine manufacturer specs of that particular engine. good luck

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    Man this is great!! i really appreciate all the input!!

    Like i stated i never intended to build this as a performance boat. You have to remember this is my first boat! Not trying to set the world on fire with it!!

    The engine came with a points style ignition, do you think it's best to keep that or convert to electronic? (any/all suggestions would be great!)

    I will pay very close attention to the outdrive and all of it parts when i remove the old engine.

    So how much power are we talking here to have worries about the outdrive breaking? I don't think my engine will make more than 370 hp. should it hold up?

    Here's the specs of the engine.

    Basic performance built 350 short block

    210/216 @.050 hyd roller. .486/.486 lift with 1.5 rocker. 112 ls.

    Trick flow 195 cc heads with mild port work

    Performer RPM intake with 650 holley.

    9.4:1 compression.

    I personally felt this combo would run great in a boat, what do you all think?

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    hey dominic, i would shoot for a torquey 300 hp (that bayliner is heavy) and roll into the throttle vs smashing the throttle (this will help the outdrive live longer)...if it were me i wouldnt try to put a ton of power to that outdrive...they are expensive as hell to replace!


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    Now if your looking for a ton of power on the other hand....once you get it all spanked up, sell it and get ya a V-drive...plenty of sweet fatties and hydros in your neck of the woods.
    Wwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eee

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    Quote Originally Posted by stokerdude View Post
    hey dominic, i would shoot for a torquey 300 hp (that bayliner is heavy) and roll into the throttle vs smashing the throttle (this will help the outdrive live longer)...if it were me i wouldnt try to put a ton of power to that outdrive...they are expensive as hell to replace!
    Ok i getcha, i will try my best not to stab the throttle out the hole! So can i put the power to it after i'm already going say 15 to 20 mph?

    I pretty sure a safe power guess for my engine would be in the neighborhood of 350hp
    but definately no more than 370.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
    Ok i getcha, i will try my best not to stab the throttle out the hole! So can i put the power to it after i'm already going say 15 to 20 mph?

    I pretty sure a safe power guess for my engine would be in the neighborhood of 350hp
    but definately no more than 370.
    Dominic really? A bayliner? You've been hanging out with Ron Clark to long. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WINspeed View Post
    Dominic really? A bayliner? You've been hanging out with Ron Clark to long. LOL.
    LOL! Whats up slow poke? heard you're playing with those slow diesels still? Well, probably best you stick with those anyways, you never could get a gas engine to run good anyhow!!! LOL!!! I remember you at Sac raceway, you never could get that turd of a camaro to run anywhere near where it should of been!

    See ya around slow poke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic:1600245
    Quote Originally Posted by WINspeed View Post
    Dominic really? A bayliner? You've been hanging out with Ron Clark to long. LOL.
    LOL! Whats up slow poke? heard you're playing with those slow diesels still? Well, probably best you stick with those anyways, you never could get a gas engine to run good anyhow!!! LOL!!! I remember you at Sac raceway, you never could get that turd of a camaro to run anywhere near where it should of been!

    See ya around slow poke
    Lol, you haven't changed a bit! See you at the track

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    Diesel Pimp WINspeed's Avatar
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    I know you've got a couple units laying around, Install them and go Jet Boat hunting. LOL. You could have the ultimate sleeper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WINspeed View Post
    I know you've got a couple units laying around, Install them and go Jet Boat hunting. LOL. You could have the ultimate sleeper.
    Trust me bro, i've thought it over already!(and over and over and over lol!!!) I have another smallblock with a 144 blower and a plate kit, i was (and still am) tempted to put it in but nows not the right time to kill the outdrive on my first boat LOL!!! I'm still learning this whole boat thing!!! One day hopefully i can build something nicer like your boat, but for now this will do, i can take my family out and have fun, go fishing, ski, tube, ect...

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