Whipple on my 25 talon??
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Whipple on my 25 talon??

  1. #1
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    Default Whipple on my 25 talon??

    I just purchased a 25 Talon with a 525 from Randy at Lake Cumberland Marine, clean boat ran 92 on our test run but I want more bottom end pull and top speed while keeping similar driveability.

    It was suggested that I speak with Bill Schumaker in Indy re getting a Whipple stage II installed to run in the 725 + HP range and could run close to the 120 mark .

    I'm coming over from a 21 Skater / 300XS so the 525 is kind of new to me, the $$ are steep on the stage II and just wanted to hear from those of you that have used either the Whipple and / or Schumaker Performance.

    Just doing my homework before I make a decision, if anyone has other dependable, drivable options as to how to get more power from this set up I would appreciate it.

    Thanks
    Martin Barkey

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    Senior Member Familycat's Avatar
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    The 525 is a fantastic motor and underated on hp. I heard that modifying a 525 will severy hurt the reliablility. Some guys have had success but many have not. If you need more, yank the 525 and sell it then build a big hp mortor. Just my $.02

    BTW Congratulation on the new boat. They are very cool and rare. Pics?
    "Equity at its Best"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Familycat View Post
    The 525 is a fantastic motor and underated on hp. I heard that modifying a 525 will severy hurt the reliablility. Some guys have had success but many have not. If you need more, yank the 525 and sell it then build a big hp mortor. Just my $.02

    BTW Congratulation on the new boat. They are very cool and rare. Pics?
    Thanks for the post. This is what Im trying to figure out. One other member mentioned poor reliability with a modded 525, then I have dealer and installers telling me that they have all kinds of customers with a SC'd 525 that have had no issues since installing the super charger.

    Anyone with first hand experience with this set up that can chime in here??

    Thanks MB

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    Notice that only the people that will make money off you modifying your 525 are telling you to do it? Take my advice and others - don't do it. As was just posted, if you want to go faster, yank it, sell it, and have a big power motor built. Don't expect to go 120 mph with anything less than big hp though. There are a lot of BS'ers on this site that claim big numbers with relatively low hp, but it's all just that - BS. I wish I had a dollar for all of the 120 mph single engine cats I've passed through the years while running 110 in my 28 Skaters or Mirage Ski Racer!

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    Senior Member HTMike's Avatar
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    I would just sell the 525 and build new power. That Talon to run 120 LEGIT is going to take some serious horsepower along with good setup. My HTM SS-24 with just over 1000 hp ran 122.4 GPS. For that Talon to do the same it will take 1200 ponys or more.

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    Senior Member Familycat's Avatar
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    I think you hearing the same message. My 25 Daytona has a Teague 800. It runs 113 on a good day. To run big numbers it takes big power. You will be diappointed with the 525 with a blower running right at 100, nowhere near 120. Like I said the 525 is a great motor that will go fast to a point. They also have great resale value. It is just not going to be a 900-1000 hp motor. Wasn't designed to be. Either be happy at 92, which is damn good, or go in a different direction.
    "Equity at its Best"

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    Thanks Guys. I liked the idea of keeping the stock efi motor in place and just bolting on additional HP. Sounds like this may not be the case .......

    So if I was to build / buy a motor does one brand over another fit the bill for me or my boat.

    I only mentioned the 120mph as this was a number tossed around by someone that was PRO Whipple.

    Im not looking for all out crazy speed, 110+ with good idle and dock manners, good bottom and mid range power, dependable while not being too crazy loud is likely where I want to go. Keeping fuel injection would be cool too.

    Whats cubic inch would I be looking at to accomplish this range? Is supercharged preferred by most over NA ?

    Any advice or info is much appreciated. thanks

    MB

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    find out what the belhousing is (ford chevy dodge) and go from there but build a good stout bottom end and work up blowers and turbos are cool but you can just as easy build a naturally asperated motor. just do your reserch and buy good parts cheap parts means less dependability. Dont bore the block too much you will have some longevity issues (like i said im used to hot rods could be differnet in a boat) but thats my .... fifty cents??? lol
    Last edited by texan; 04-23-2010 at 08:16 AM.

  11. #9
    mud slinger plaster dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayzor View Post
    Notice that only the people that will make money off you modifying your 525 are telling you to do it? Take my advice and others - don't do it. As was just posted, if you want to go faster, yank it, sell it, and have a big power motor built. Don't expect to go 120 mph with anything less than big hp though. There are a lot of BS'ers on this site that claim big numbers with relatively low hp, but it's all just that - BS. I wish I had a dollar for all of the 120 mph single engine cats I've passed through the years while running 110 in my 28 Skaters or Mirage Ski Racer!
    X2
    Quote Originally Posted by H2O Guy View Post
    Thanks Guys. I liked the idea of keeping the stock efi motor in place and just bolting on additional HP. Sounds like this may not be the case .......

    So if I was to build / buy a motor does one brand over another fit the bill for me or my boat.

    I only mentioned the 120mph as this was a number tossed around by someone that was PRO Whipple.

    Im not looking for all out crazy speed, 110+ with good idle and dock manners, good bottom and mid range power, dependable while not being too crazy loud is likely where I want to go. Keeping fuel injection would be cool too.

    Whats cubic inch would I be looking at to accomplish this range? Is supercharged preferred by most over NA ?

    Any advice or info is much appreciated. thanks

    MB
    I have a Howard 26' and it was splashed from the talon/american offshore and I have 800-850HP and I run 101-105 depending on the conditions. If you put a similar motor to mine which is basically a Teague 509ci 800HP motor I would think you would run right around 110MPH.
    As for all the things you want in this motor it's not gonna be great around a dock like the 525 is and there is no such thing as 800+HP and having it being reliable. Big HP and a Bravo drive will never be reliable. That being said I have 270+ hours on my drive and I have 470+ hours on the boat and I have rebuilt the motor twice. Good luck and enjoy your new ride.
    Don't sweat the "Petty", Pet the Sweaty!

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    [QUOTE=H2O Guy;1068297]Thanks Guys. I liked the idea of keeping the stock efi motor in place and just bolting on additional HP. Sounds like this may not be the case .......

    So if I was to build / buy a motor does one brand over another fit the bill for me or my boat.

    I only mentioned the 120mph as this was a number tossed around by someone that was PRO Whipple.

    Im not looking for all out crazy speed, 110+ with good idle and dock manners, good bottom and mid range power, dependable while not being too crazy loud is likely where I want to go. Keeping fuel injection would be cool too.

    A blown 565 or 598 will both make that kind of power. Talk to Schumacher about doing a 588 or 598 with a injected Pro-Charger set up. This will make big power and idle around the docks like a stocker with no blower surge at all. A friend of mine has a couple Schumacher Pro-Charged 588's in his 33 Daytona and they are sweet!! Not even close to cheap motors, but if you have the coin they will fit the bill.

    Where are you from?

    Craig

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    Thanks guys. I put the blower install on hold. Im going to just bring the boat home next week and run it for a while stock ( that just sounds wrong..... ) then see what direction I want to go.

    If I like the boat and decide to keep it then I will build bigger power for it this winter.

    MB

  14. #12
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    [QUOTE=WETTE VETTE;1068668]
    Quote Originally Posted by H2O Guy View Post
    Thanks Guys. I liked the idea of keeping the stock efi motor in place and just bolting on additional HP. Sounds like this may not be the case .......

    So if I was to build / buy a motor does one brand over another fit the bill for me or my boat.

    I only mentioned the 120mph as this was a number tossed around by someone that was PRO Whipple.

    Im not looking for all out crazy speed, 110+ with good idle and dock manners, good bottom and mid range power, dependable while not being too crazy loud is likely where I want to go. Keeping fuel injection would be cool too.

    A blown 565 or 598 will both make that kind of power. Talk to Schumacher about doing a 588 or 598 with a injected Pro-Charger set up. This will make big power and idle around the docks like a stocker with no blower surge at all. A friend of mine has a couple Schumacher Pro-Charged 588's in his 33 Daytona and they are sweet!! Not even close to cheap motors, but if you have the coin they will fit the bill.

    Where are you from?

    Craig
    Yes I have spoken with Bill a few times , seems like a great guy.

    Im in Huntsville Ontario, just a couple hours north of Toronto.

    MB

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    [QUOTE=H2O Guy;1069505]
    Quote Originally Posted by WETTE VETTE View Post
    Yes I have spoken with Bill a few times , seems like a great guy.

    Im in Huntsville Ontario, just a couple hours north of Toronto.

    MB
    Well then you're in luck. You are just a few hrs drive from the best engine builders in the country. Mike and wayne at Active engines in oakville are who you want to talk to.

    PS, August14th, Lake Muskoka poker run

    I could use another fast single cat to run with.

    As for a whippled 525, my buddy runs one with a built bottom end, better head gaskets etc in a 25 Daytona and it runs shy of 100. No way it would make a Talon run anywhere near 120.

  16. #14
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    [QUOTE=Airpacker;1070681]
    Quote Originally Posted by H2O Guy View Post

    Well then you're in luck. You are just a few hrs drive from the best engine builders in the country. Mike and wayne at Active engines in oakville are who you want to talk to.

    PS, August14th, Lake Muskoka poker run

    I could use another fast single cat to run with.

    As for a whippled 525, my buddy runs one with a built bottom end, better head gaskets etc in a 25 Daytona and it runs shy of 100. No way it would make a Talon run anywhere near 120.
    Active Engines ??? ....... I just had a motor built in the Oakville area, I think they just rebuilt my Chevy Colorado motor.

    Im good for a run on Muskoka for sure, please keep me posted. Never done a poker run in my life, cant wait.

    MB

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