Pell Grant question for RTI
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Pell Grant question for RTI

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Default Pell Grant question for RTI

    Hey Ram,

    I see this article here and I was wondering, how do these particular schools keep getting around 50% pell grant recipients when they have less than 20% graduation rates?
    (Honest question, BTW)

    Is there no requirements for grant money? Where does Pell Grant money come from?

    I had a GF years ago that got some small Pell Grant money for her studies at U of AK Anch.

    I seem to recall that it is not paid back?
    School me please.

    11 worst public university grad rates - college degrees - MSN Money
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Hey Ram,

    I see this article here and I was wondering, how do these particular schools keep getting around 50% pell grant recipients when they have less than 20% graduation rates?
    (Honest question, BTW)

    Is there no requirements for grant money? Where does Pell Grant money come from?

    I had a GF years ago that got some small Pell Grant money for her studies at U of AK Anch.

    I seem to recall that it is not paid back?
    School me please.

    11 worst public university grad rates - college degrees - MSN Money
    Yeah, I don't think grants are paid back. I do believe they are need based and only up to about $5K. I've never received one. I don't think you need to earn very much to be above the eligability cut off, maybe $25k or $30K. I know they let everyone know if you get a drug conviction you loose your ability to get federal financial aid.

    Usually the pell grant recipients are pretty poor. Poor people generally don't do as well in school. That might explain the high dropout rate. With any state school, like the CSU system (not the UC system), graduation rates aren't that high. I think my school only graduates something like 50%. Many people start school and for whatever reason, don't finish.

    These universities want money so they help get students all the financial aid they can and enroll as many students as they can. I personally think half the people going to college shouldn't be there, but the schools want money so they don't see it that way. The fact that the industrial/ shop classes in high school and jobs requiring those types of skills aren't in the highest demand anymore, many people go to college because they don't see any other way. IMO college has become a racket. The schools are more interested in money than they are in putting out highly educated graduates. The worst are those private schools like Phoenix University. Those type of schools are a complete scam and need to be legislated out of business.

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    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think grants are paid back. I do believe they are need based and only up to about $5K. I've never received one. I don't think you need to earn very much to be above the eligability cut off, maybe $25k or $30K. I know they let everyone know if you get a drug conviction you loose your ability to get federal financial aid.

    Usually the pell grant recipients are pretty poor. Poor people generally don't do as well in school. That might explain the high dropout rate. With any state school, like the CSU system (not the UC system), graduation rates aren't that high. I think my school only graduates something like 50%. Many people start school and for whatever reason, don't finish.

    These universities want money so they help get students all the financial aid they can and enroll as many students as they can. I personally think half the people going to college shouldn't be there, but the schools want money so they don't see it that way. The fact that the industrial/ shop classes in high school and jobs requiring those types of skills aren't in the highest demand anymore, many people go to college because they don't see any other way. IMO college has become a racket. The schools are more interested in money than they are in putting out highly educated graduates. The worst are those private schools like Phoenix University. Those type of schools are a complete scam and need to be legislated out of business.
    Thanks for the honest reply.
    It seems that my old GF got less than $1000.00 on that grant, I didn't think the limits were very high.
    Do you know where that money comes from?
    What is a Pell grant?
    Tommy
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    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Thanks for the honest reply.
    It seems that my old GF got less than $1000.00 on that grant, I didn't think the limits were very high.
    Do you know where that money comes from?
    What is a Pell grant?
    I know not everyone gets the full amount. Most of the people I talk to only get maybe $3k. It's a federal grant. I think its funded by the Dept of Education. It started in the 60's. I think it started to help low income kids go to college. Now every illegal that wants to go to school gets it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think grants are paid back. I do believe they are need based and only up to about $5K. I've never received one. I don't think you need to earn very much to be above the eligability cut off, maybe $25k or $30K. I know they let everyone know if you get a drug conviction you loose your ability to get federal financial aid.

    Usually the pell grant recipients are pretty poor. Poor people generally don't do as well in school. That might explain the high dropout rate. With any state school, like the CSU system (not the UC system), graduation rates aren't that high. I think my school only graduates something like 50%. Many people start school and for whatever reason, don't finish.

    These universities want money so they help get students all the financial aid they can and enroll as many students as they can. I personally think half the people going to college shouldn't be there, but the schools want money so they don't see it that way. The fact that the industrial/ shop classes in high school and jobs requiring those types of skills aren't in the highest demand anymore, many people go to college because they don't see any other way. IMO college has become a racket. The schools are more interested in money than they are in putting out highly educated graduates. The worst are those private schools like Phoenix University. Those type of schools are a complete scam and need to be legislated out of business.
    If they are as bad as you say they are then let them fail on their own merit. We don't need more laws banning this, that and the other. It doesn't sound like there is a dimes worth of difference between the public institutions and the private ones as they both are diploma mills and money grubbers. The benefit I see with private institutions is they don't honor tenure and their instructors have to be able to perform or get fired. Another benefit is private institutions hire instructors from the private sector and generally have a much better grasp of the subject they are teaching, having been in the field in which they work. Public institution instructors, for the most part have never worked in the business of which they teach and have lived a shelterd life isolated from the real world.
    Within the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved. "Good grief you're an irritating blowhard...." [Tex 6/16/11]

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    Quote Originally Posted by 058 View Post
    If they are as bad as you say they are then let them fail on their own merit. We don't need more laws banning this, that and the other. It doesn't sound like there is a dimes worth of difference between the public institutions and the private ones as they both are diploma mills and money grubbers. The benefit I see with private institutions is they don't honor tenure and their instructors have to be able to perform or get fired. Another benefit is private institutions hire instructors from the private sector and generally have a much better grasp of the subject they are teaching, having been in the field in which they work. Public institution instructors, for the most part have never worked in the business of which they teach and have lived a shelterd life isolated from the real world.
    Yeah, not really. I wouldn't describe the public schools as diploma mills. They are definatley profit driven but when you graduate you do have a degree that is respected. They are profit driven to maintain there bloated beauracracy. At these schools you still have to go to class, do work, and put in a large amount of effort.

    At the diploma mills like Phoenix University, Devry Institute, and the rest, the cost of education is many times what it costs at a public university and when you graduate your diploma isn't worth jack shit. They appeal to people that want to go to school that don't want to put in the effort required at a public school. I've talked to some people that attended one of these places and they only meet at the school an hour or two every couple weeks and the school encourages you to work with the other students in groups to teach each oother the material. The professors aren't near as qualified and their diplomas are looked at as a joke. Because they have extremely high tuition and fees, the students usually go into huge debt with little chance of getting a job where they can pay it back. These schools are focussed on maximizing profits for their owners.

    The public universities are there to provide an education to students, I just think they could do a little more. The private diploma mills I speak of are ther to make a profit and don't give a fuck how much they screw the students.

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    I see the main difference between private and public institutions is private inst. have their hand in just the student's pocket and public inst. have their hands in not only the student's pocket but the taxpayer as well. Not to speak of the millions the alumni contributes. Also with private schools there is no public outrage the administrators receive in compensation. Whereas the public institutions the administrators are paid in part by taxpayers and are generously paid at that. I don't know of too many private inst. administrators that make $451K/yr plus housing, transportation and incidental benefits that total over $500K annually. [UC-Chas. Reed] Or Ohio State: over $1.8mil/ annually. [inc. Car, house, expense account and club dues] Why is it that when the left complains about corporate salaries nothing is said about the people that live off of the taxpayer earn the same or close to that of corp. CEOs? Corporations and their CEOs answer to only their stockholders...who does the public college administratiors answer to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 058 View Post
    If they are as bad as you say they are then let them fail on their own merit.


    Well plenty of them would fail if they weren't propped up by federal aid. There are plenty of schools that get Pell grants for utes to learn hairdressing, etc.


    . It doesn't sound like there is a dimes worth of difference between the public institutions and the private ones as they both are diploma mills and money grubbers. The benefit I see with private institutions is they don't honor tenure and their instructors have to be able to perform or get fired. Another benefit is private institutions hire instructors from the private sector .
    Hmm, there are plenty of small private colleges that have finger-painting classes and seemingly guarantee all A's - for parents that are willing to put out $40k/yr.

    The 50% grad rate in 4 yrs. is nearly universal. Some peeps take longer. Some never finish.
    If someone has a nice job opportunity maybe there is no real point in finishing a 4 yr degree in the arts, esp. if you've already hung around college for 4-5 yrs.
    I've personally made a complete reversal on this topic in the past 10 yrs. We live in a technical world, either you have the skill or you don't.
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    I'm still chuckling at being "poo-pooed" for straying off topic. Awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBjet View Post
    Hmm, there are plenty of small private colleges that have finger-painting classes and seemingly guarantee all A's - for parents that are willing to put out $40k/yr.

    The 50% grad rate in 4 yrs. is nearly universal. Some peeps take longer. Some never finish.
    If someone has a nice job opportunity maybe there is no real point in finishing a 4 yr degree in the arts, esp. if you've already hung around college for 4-5 yrs.
    I've personally made a complete reversal on this topic in the past 10 yrs. We live in a technical world, either you have the skill or you don't.
    And there are plenty of public institutions that offer finger painting as well...Add the basket weaving, woman's studies, Television watching and a gaggle of other equally ridiculous classes and courses filling the catalog...One would have to have an IQ considerably less than room temperature to receive less than an A for any one of them, so I suppose any one student would almost be guaranteed an A. Pretty sad if one failed TV watching 101, wouldn't it?
    Last edited by 058; 06-11-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 058 View Post
    I see the main difference between private and public institutions is private inst. have their hand in just the student's pocket and public inst. have their hands in not only the student's pocket but the taxpayer as well. Not to speak of the millions the alumni contributes. Also with private schools there is no public outrage the administrators receive in compensation. Whereas the public institutions the administrators are paid in part by taxpayers and are generously paid at that. I don't know of too many private inst. administrators that make $451K/yr plus housing, transportation and incidental benefits that total over $500K annually. [UC-Chas. Reed] Or Ohio State: over $1.8mil/ annually. [inc. Car, house, expense account and club dues] Why is it that when the left complains about corporate salaries nothing is said about the people that live off of the taxpayer earn the same or close to that of corp. CEOs? Corporations and their CEOs answer to only their stockholders...who does the public college administratiors answer to?
    First off, the students at these private schools still apply for and get government provided financial aid. That's taxpayer money. Second, you are misunderstanding what I am discussing in regards to private schools. I am not talking about schools like USC, Harvard, and other respected private institutions of higher education. I am talking about bullshit schools started for nothing else but to charge exorbinant fees for what basically amounts to no education and a degree that isn't worth any more than your used toilet paper. These schools prey on potential students by making promises of high paying jobs if you go to there school or enroll in their program. It is a scam, and they are screwing taxpayers out of money because the students get govt financial aid, and then have nothing to show for it. They screw the students because they saddle them with so much debt the student will never be able to recover. It is a scam. Public universities are not a scam, the students actually have something when they graduate.

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    Default As I Remember It...

    I encouraged my students to go for GRANTS first telling them a GRANT is free MONEY, a loan must be paid back.

    Seems if you were the first in your family to go to college, that helped, if you were a Mexican that helped........Seems that was the two best questions to answer when applying for a GRANT...

    When my son, Chad, graduated from high school I filled out an application to the Entrerurnerial School at USC. They called within a week offering him a scholarship AND MAYBE A GRANT OR TWO. I explained that I accidentally check American Indian rather than American.......They said, "They can't ask him." I said, "I'd call back nexst week." But I NEVER DID....
    Last edited by Ron Hill; 06-11-2012 at 06:02 PM.

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    My son's friend got full tuition paid by grants at the U of U. Nice middle class family. The only thing was that it didn't include housing. They definitely weren't destitute. He ended up being on the cheerleading squad and received a full scholarship which included housing and food. Before you say the whole friend of a friend thing, we have been friends with the family since my son started playing football with him in 2003.

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