Who Won ? And Who Lied ?
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Who Won ? And Who Lied ?

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    Senior Member AzMandella's Avatar
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    Default Who Won ? And Who Lied ?

    Well it seems the liberal press is giving the debate victory to Biden but the snap polls from CNN and CNBC say otherwise. It also seems that Biden was lying through his teeth, not that we didn't already know that, according to the AP fact checker. Too bad the left will never hear about it as I'm sure all the mainstream media will ignore it. They surely won't report that Biden and the O admin are the bunch of liars that they are.
    AP Fact-Checker Bulldozes Through Biden Falsehoods - Associated Press - Fox Nation
    RYAN Wins Post-Debate Snap Polls - VP Debate Poll - Fox Nation
    If you voted for Obama to prove you were not racist, then you better find someone else to vote for to prove your not stupid.

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    Senior Member Ms Understood's Avatar
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    I'm going with the honest guy, who has class and substance, not the lying condescending jackass.



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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Polls show Ryan's favorability going up a few points while Biden's went down quite a few.

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    Here is the fact check summary. I don't think there was a clear winner either way.

    The Biden-Ryan debate was marked by some spirited claims that didn’t always match the facts.
    • Ryan said Obama’s proposal to let tax rates rise for high-income individuals would “tax about 53 percent of small-business income.” Wrong. Ryan is counting giant hedge funds and thousands of other multimillion-dollar enterprises as “small” businesses.
    • Biden exaggerated when he said House Republicans cut funding for embassy security by $300 million. The amount approved for fiscal year 2012 was $264 million less than requested, and covers construction and maintenance, not just security.
    • Ryan was wrong when he said a rise in the jobless rate in Biden’s hometown was “how it’s going all around America.” The rate nationally has sunk back to where it was when Obama took office. And in Ryan’s hometown, it’s more than 4 percentage points lower that it was at the start of Obama’s term.
    • Biden seemed to question Ryan’s assertion that administration officials called Syrian President Bashar Assad “a reformer” even when he was killing his own civilian countrymen. Ryan was right. Early in the bloody Syrian uprising Hillary Clinton called Assad a “different leader” who many in Congress believe is “a reformer.”
    • Ryan claimed the Obama administration spent stimulus money on “electric cars in Finland.” Not true. Although the cars have been assembled in Finland, the money went for work in the United States.
    • Biden quoted Romney as saying that he would not “move heaven and earth” to get Osama bin Laden. What Romney said was that he’d go after other terrorists as well.
    • Ryan misquoted a Medicare official as saying “one out of six hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business” as a result of the Affordable Care Act. Not quite. The official said that many could become “unprofitable,” and the the situation could be monitored to head off bad outcomes.
    • Ryan claimed that the ACA contains “taxpayer funding” of abortion. In fact the law provides no direct funding of abortion except in cases of rape or incest or to save the mother’s life. And it’s a matter of interpretation whether subsidized private insurance would amount to indirect federal support for abortion.
    • Ryan was off base when he said of a cost-saving panel created by the Affordable Care Act, “not one of them even has to have medical training.” Actually, the board must include physicians and other health care professionals among its members.

    Ryan at one point ground out a collection of shopworn misstatements about the health care law that we’ve had to rebut time and again, claiming “20 million people … are projected to lose their health insurance” (not true), that premiums have gone up $3,000 (no, they haven’t) and that 7.4 million seniors “are going to lose” Medicare Advantage plans (maybe, but they’d still be covered by traditional Medicare).

    And both Biden and Ryan continued to twist the facts about Romney’s tax plan. Biden again misrepresented the findings of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, and Ryan repeated a misleading claim that “six studies have verified” that the plan is mathematically possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodnJen View Post
    ...Ryan at one point ground out a collection of shopworn misstatements about the health care law that we’ve had to rebut time and again, claiming “20 million people … are projected to lose their health insurance” (not true), that premiums have gone up $3,000 (no, they haven’t) and that 7.4 million seniors “are going to lose” Medicare Advantage plans (maybe, but they’d still be covered by traditional Medicare)...
    Fear mongering at it's finest...he also played the "death panels"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzMandella View Post
    Well it seems the liberal press is giving the debate victory to Biden but the snap polls from CNN and CNBC say otherwise. It also seems that Biden was lying through his teeth, not that we didn't already know that, according to the AP fact checker. Too bad the left will never hear about it as I'm sure all the mainstream media will ignore it. They surely won't report that Biden and the O admin are the bunch of liars that they are.
    AP Fact-Checker Bulldozes Through Biden Falsehoods - Associated Press - Fox Nation
    RYAN Wins Post-Debate Snap Polls - VP Debate Poll - Fox Nation
    Funny how your Fox article cites this article:
    FACT CHECK: Slips in vice presidential debate - Yahoo! News

    But only mentions the parts about Biden, totally ignoring the Ryan lies. And you guys wonder why people laugh when Fox claims to be fair and balanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shueman View Post
    Fear mongering at it's finest...he also played the "death panels"...
    That he did. It is the Medicare BS that really burns my ass. He plays against the population that is most dependent on it and in many cases is the most vulnerable. Many of them loath all politicians, yet without Medicare they would be in bad shape.

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    Senior Member Ms Understood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodnJen View Post
    That he did. It is the Medicare BS that really burns my ass. He plays against the population that is most dependent on it and in many cases is the most vulnerable. Many of them loath all politicians, yet without Medicare they would be in bad shape.
    Prove it. Back it up with facts.

    Here more fact checking from other fact checkers...LOL

    FACT CHECK: TOP TEN WORST LIES BY JOE BIDEN IN VP DEBATE
    by Joel B. Pollak

    10. "With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey....not a single thing he said is accurate." At the outset of the debate, Biden tried to paint Ryan as a liar--when Biden, in fact, was the one lying. Ryan had pointed out: 1) that the White House had distanced itself from the Cairo embassy's apologies on 9/11; 2) that ...Obama had failed to speak up for Iranian protestors in 2009; 3) that the Obama administration called Syria's dictator a "reformer"; 4) and that the Obama administration is imposing defense cuts and projecting weakness. All of that is true.

    9. "The president has met with Bibi [Netanyahu] a dozen times....This is a bunch of stuff." While they have met several times--not a dozen--that includes a meeting at which Obama made the Israeli prime minister enter the White House through a back entrance, refused to take a picture with him, and left him on his own for dinner. Specifically, Ryan had criticized Obama's refusal to meet Netanyahu in New York last month, and to tape talk show interviews instead--a clear snub that sent the wrong signal, again, to Israel's enemies.

    8. "Just let the taxes expire like they’re supposed to on those millionaires." Biden's "millionaires" are actually households earning more than $250,000 a year, which includes many middle-class families with two earners, and small business owners in particular who report business earnings as personal income. Biden and Obama have repeatedly labeled those earning over $250,000 as "millionaires and billionaires," distorting the actual impact of their tax plan on the non-millionaires it would hit hardest, who create a vast proportion of small business jobs.

    7. "You know, I heard that death panel argument from Sarah Palin. It seems that every vice presidential debate, I hear this kind of stuff about panels." Biden's cheap shot against Palin was an attempt to diminish both her and the man sitting across from him. But Palin never talked about "death panels" in her debate with Biden, for the simple reason that Obamacare had not yet been proposed. Nor did Ryan mention "death panels"--he had addressed the undeniable fact that Obamacare proposes a board to impose cost controls.

    6. "The congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for." Biden's lie about Ryan's budget was an attempt to dodge responsibility for lax embassy security--and to cover up that the Obama called for new cuts to embassy security just days after the 9/11 attacks. Ryan's proposal, which called for a 19% overall decrease in non-defense discretionary spending, does not even mention embassy security--the Obama campaign merely made up that number by applying 19% across the board.

    5. "No, they are not four years closer to a nuclear weapon." Biden's attempt to lie about the glaring reality of the Iranian nuclear program fell flat. Iran is indeed four years closer to a nuclear weapon, and the Obama administration--believing it knew better than its predecessors--tried to reinvent the wheel on talks with Iran, causing frustration to our allies in Europe and the Middle East. Meeting after meeting this year has failed to produce results, and the loophole-filled sanctions, while hurting Iran somewhat, are not stopping its nuclear program.

    4. "No religious institution, Catholic or otherwise...has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact." No, it is not a fact--it is the opposite of a fact, and saying "that is a fact" does not make it any less a blatant lie. The Obama administration is forcing religious institutions to provide contraceptive and abortion drugs through their insurance policies. That is the reason several dozen religious institutions are suing the administration to defend their First Amendment freedom of religion.

    3. "It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him." Biden voted for both the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war. He did not vote for George W. Bush's plan to extend coverage of Medicare to prescription drugs (though he voted for an earlier, similar proposal), nor did he vote for the Bush tax cuts. But he voted for both of the wars he derided last night. To quote Bill Clinton's speech to the Democratic National Convention: "It takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did."

    2. "What we did is we saved $716 billion and put it back -- applied it to Medicare." Biden repeated the lie the Obama administration has been telling since before Obamacare passed in 2010: that cuts to Medicare today were savings that extend the life of the program. They would be--if the same $716 billion wasn't also being used to pay for Obamacare. As Ryan pointed out in 2010, and again last night, you can't double-count the same cuts. Taking $716 billion out of Medicare means exactly that--and hurts, not helps, the program's solvency.

    1. "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security again." Biden lied through his teeth about the fact that the administration--specifically, the State Department--had been told again and again that security on the ground in Libya, and in Benghazi in particular, was inadequate. The day before, in Congressional hearings on the Libya attacks, former regional security director Eric Nordstrom described his frustration with having those requests turned down by the government bureaucracy: "For me the Taliban is on the inside of the building."

    Fact Check: Top Ten Worst Lies by Joe Biden in VP Debate



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    Senior Member Ms Understood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shueman View Post
    Fear mongering at it's finest...he also played the "death panels"...
    You guy should be ashamed.



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    Senior Member AzMandella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Funny how your Fox article cites this article:
    FACT CHECK: Slips in vice presidential debate - Yahoo! News

    But only mentions the parts about Biden, totally ignoring the Ryan lies. And you guys wonder why people laugh when Fox claims to be fair and balanced.
    I guess your right if your too stupid to click on the link that says "Read The Full Article Here". I guess your right it is missleading. especially to your party. The party of the uneducated and ignorant and lazy.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you were not racist, then you better find someone else to vote for to prove your not stupid.

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    Senior Member Ms Understood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Funny how your Fox article cites this article:
    FACT CHECK: Slips in vice presidential debate - Yahoo! News

    But only mentions the parts about Biden, totally ignoring the Ryan lies. And you guys wonder why people laugh when Fox claims to be fair and balanced.
    While the cat let go of your tongue, why not go back to the last thread.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Understood View Post
    While the cat let go of your tongue, why not go back to the last thread.
    I'm still waiting for you to explain what QE3 is and what the fed hoped to accomplish with it. I questioned whether you knew these things, and you have yet to prove you have. You just babble on, trying to divert attention from your ignorance. The really sad thing is that this all occured yesterday, and you still haven't been able to figure it out for yourself and you need someone to explain it to you.

    Here you go, have someone read this to you, The Federal Reserve launches QE3: The power of positive thinking | The Economist
    and then find someone smarter than the people you usually associate with who is willing to explain it to you. I am not, not because I am too busy, but because explaining economic policy to you would be similar to explaing it to my dog. Have a wonderful day!

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    Senior Member Uncle Dave's Avatar
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    They both "distorted" the truth.

    Biden more so than Ryan.

    Its amazing to me that Biden wont acknowledge a "bomb" as a weapon. Laughable.
    Somehow according to the Dems now Iran has to have a missile delivery system for there to be "a weapon."
    Like the Iranians couldn't put a warhead on a plane a boat or a truck.

    Ryan should have also quoted Irans FM Salehi when he said " Iran has lived with sanctions for 30 years this this no big deal"

    Also when Biden quipped about the 47% Why didnt Ryan say " you didnt build that"?

    Lots of missed opportunities.

    Uncle Dave
    Last edited by Uncle Dave; 10-12-2012 at 12:07 PM.

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    Senior Member AzMandella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    I'm still waiting for you to explain what QE3 is and what the fed hoped to accomplish with it. I questioned whether you knew these things, and you have yet to prove you have. You just babble on, trying to divert attention from your ignorance. The really sad thing is that this all occured yesterday, and you still haven't been able to figure it out for yourself and you need someone to explain it to you.

    Here you go, have someone read this to you, The Federal Reserve launches QE3: The power of positive thinking | The Economist
    and then find someone smarter than the people you usually associate with who is willing to explain it to you. I am not, not because I am too busy, but because explaining economic policy to you would be similar to explaing it to my dog. Have a wonderful day!
    And what exactly is your resume in ecenomic policy ? Nothing like an E.O.E.. Jack of all trades. expert of none.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you were not racist, then you better find someone else to vote for to prove your not stupid.

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