The Fiscal Cliff
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The Fiscal Cliff

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    Default The Fiscal Cliff

    Who saw Boehner's speech yesterday, you know, the one where he said Republicans would approve tax increases in the right deal to reduce national debt? When plans to reduce the national debt were discussed last year in August, it seemed the GOP was holding all the cards because we needed to extend the debt ceiling. Obama and Boehner came to an agreement that would reduce the national debt by $4 trillion, which was going to be $1 trillion in revenue increase from eliminating tax loopholes, and $3 trillion from spending cuts. I remember seeing GOP political strategists saying that the GOP should take the deal and run, since they will likely never get a debt reduction plan with a 3:1 cuts to tax ratio again. Eric Cantor and the TP put a stop to Boehner and Obama's plan, and I read it really pissed the President off.

    Fast forward to today, and it seems the President is holding all the cards. Bush's tax cuts are set to expire, and I think Obama will use this against the Republicans to get a deal he wants. Obama has said repeatedly he wants to raise taxes on those making over $250K and eliminate tax loopholes like the corporate jet deduction. Redoing the tax code could cement Obama's legacy as a successful President into the history books along fellow progressives FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, LBJ, and JFK. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, as a motivation for the GOP to work with the President to put the debt reduction plan in place that he wants for the country. Oh, and Obama's plan likely won't have a 3:1 ratio spending cuts to revenue increases. It will definately be fun to watch it all progress.

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    There's an old saying, "Better be careful of what you ask for, you just may get it". Maybe if they let the dems do what they want, the more ignorant side of the populous will find out what will happen.
    Trickle down doesn't just happen with profits. It also happens with deficits. You and I will be paying more for everything. The economy will contract. More lay-offs.
    Might hurt for a number of years, but 2014 will see a red tide. Or we will be Greece.
    Maybe the Mayans are right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms Understood View Post
    I say Bye-bye Boehner.
    He's in a no win. Too many in the center believe that taxes on the rich need to be raised. Same with the left. The dems did a very good job of demonizing the rich.
    People that understand how the economy works know that the tax code needs to be reformed, loopholes closed (especially the ones that favor one business over another), and spending cut. In order to raise tax revenue, the way up being increasing revenue by a strong, healthy economy.
    Unfortunately, if he holds his ground and nothing happens, tax rates go up all around, Obama and the dems can point to the republicans in 2014 and we'll have democratic rule.
    If he lets them have the tax increases, the economy will take a crap (we all know it, the left and center doesn't recognize it), then the republicans can point to the dems and say see we did it your way, now step out of the way and let the smart people do their job.

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    "It will definately be fun to watch it all progress. "


    Only for people who have nothing to lose (no skin in the game, you know, takers)

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    Ram... I have you blocked so I can't read your ignorance...
    With that being said I am glad someone started a fiscal cliff thread.
    I say to the dems FULL SPEED AHEAD.
    Pass whatever. Let the tax breaks expire for everyone. Let the debt skyrocket. Don't cut any social programs. Cut the military.
    Why you ask? Well, we will all be fucked. The thing is the bags of shit that rely on the govt will be fucked the most. They will be forced to take some responsibility for their lives. Most will struggle some, but the welfare folks will struggle the most. People in cities (like NY and NJ states) will be srewed. They are still crying for the govt. Well, when you rely on the govt you are bound to lose.
    Many other like me.. have property 70 acres, lake, fish, can grow food/ crops/ hunt... I will be just fine.
    Wags

    AS AMERICANS WE DESERVE EVERYTHING WE GET!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wagspe208 View Post
    Ram... I have you blocked so I can't read your ignorance...
    With that being said I am glad someone started a fiscal cliff thread.
    I say to the dems FULL SPEED AHEAD.
    Pass whatever. Let the tax breaks expire for everyone. Let the debt skyrocket. Don't cut any social programs. Cut the military.
    Why you ask? Well, we will all be fucked. The thing is the bags of shit that rely on the govt will be fucked the most. They will be forced to take some responsibility for their lives. Most will struggle some, but the welfare folks will struggle the most. People in cities (like NY and NJ states) will be srewed. They are still crying for the govt. Well, when you rely on the govt you are bound to lose.
    Many other like me.. have property 70 acres, lake, fish, can grow food/ crops/ hunt... I will be just fine.
    Wags

    AS AMERICANS WE DESERVE EVERYTHING WE GET!
    If the military is cut and Bush's tax cuts expire, the debt isn't going to skyrocket. Now if we tried the Romney plan of increasing defense spending and cutting taxes, yes, debt would skyrocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    If the military is cut and Bush's tax cuts expire, the debt isn't going to skyrocket. Now if we tried the Romney plan of increasing defense spending and cutting taxes, yes, debt would skyrocket.
    Guess what. When no one is working and businesses are slowed or moving offshore, there is no tax revenue.
    Guess what else. There are people that work in the defense industry that will be laid off. How does that work for our country and tax revenue? Does that mean you take even more from the people? Margret Thatcher said it best, "Socialism works wonderful until you run out of other people's money."

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    Pretty interesting read on what "might" have happened to derail the debt deal in 2011.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/ma...anted=all&_r=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    If the military is cut and Bush's tax cuts expire, the debt isn't going to skyrocket. Now if we tried the Romney plan of increasing defense spending and cutting taxes, yes, debt would skyrocket.
    Wrong again there Keynes. Bush tax cuts expiring will contract the economy. Many more out of work. Military cuts and increased tax's will not generate nearly enough to close the deficit. In the meanwhile more will go on unemployment meaning less taxes paid by these people and entitlements will grow. Entitlements are about 70% of our deficit as it is and will get worse.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you were not racist, then you better find someone else to vote for to prove your not stupid.

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    I say increase taxes on the rich. Do it like... ah... early progressive.. .roosevelt maybe Teddy... anyway tax those rich bastards 90%. Tax them till it hurts.
    Do NOT stop spending.
    DO NOT stop printing money.
    SPEND SPEND SPEND.
    More spending = less debt. More taxing = more revenue (unless you look at the facts)
    Gas prices, food prices .... let them skyrocket. That will help the economy. Gas prices don't affect anyone. Neither do energy (electric, natural gas) prices.
    That should fix everything. IF it doesn't... well, at least the fools tried it.
    Wags

    Meanwhile guys like me... homeowners, land owners, we will be fine. Land is always a good invenstment (unless the govt seizes it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Who saw Boehner's speech yesterday, you know, the one where he said Republicans would approve tax increases in the right deal to reduce national debt? When plans to reduce the national debt were discussed last year in August, it seemed the GOP was holding all the cards because we needed to extend the debt ceiling. Obama and Boehner came to an agreement that would reduce the national debt by $4 trillion, which was going to be $1 trillion in revenue increase from eliminating tax loopholes, and $3 trillion from spending cuts. I remember seeing GOP political strategists saying that the GOP should take the deal and run, since they will likely never get a debt reduction plan with a 3:1 cuts to tax ratio again. Eric Cantor and the TP put a stop to Boehner and Obama's plan, and I read it really pissed the President off.

    Fast forward to today, and it seems the President is holding all the cards. Bush's tax cuts are set to expire, and I think Obama will use this against the Republicans to get a deal he wants. Obama has said repeatedly he wants to raise taxes on those making over $250K and eliminate tax loopholes like the corporate jet deduction. Redoing the tax code could cement Obama's legacy as a successful President into the history books along fellow progressives FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, LBJ, and JFK. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if Obama lets the Bush tax cuts expire, as a motivation for the GOP to work with the President to put the debt reduction plan in place that he wants for the country. Oh, and Obama's plan likely won't have a 3:1 ratio spending cuts to revenue increases. It will definately be fun to watch it all progress.

    Funny, when I worked in land development and with many extremely wealthy investors most made about a dollar a year. Their corporations were located in other countries who were far more corporate and tax friendly. As I remember, they paid approximately 8-11% by having a post office box and at the most rent an office in the City of Zug, Switzerland and other countries not located in the US. So how is it beneficial to the US to have a high tax base? To many of the rich, these tax increases will not affect them as they will figure out the loopholes and deal with them. For the small businesses that don't have expert lawyers to determine the loopholes, they are in major trouble!

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    Oh, and hyper inflation cannot happen.
    My house is paid for unfortunately, but I owe some cash on the property. That way, when bread is 50 a loaf, and I'm making 30,000 a week, I can just pay off the land in a couple payments.
    GO PROGRESSIVES! FULL STEAM AHEAD
    Wags

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