Right To Work States!!
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Right To Work States!!

  1. #1
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    Default Right To Work States!!

    Your opinion? The Unions are on the ropes and

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    Dogma's a bitch. 1stepcloser's Avatar
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    Its fair. There should be no other way, really.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet-Daytona View Post
    Your opinion? The Unions are on the ropes and
    And given the ropes or reins if you will, they'll hang themselves for sure. Hostess is a prime example of unions gone awry.
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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Here's why I believe in RTW states. If you believe in the Bill of Rights, the 1st amendment allows for free association (or freedom from association). Having to be a part of a group or collective as a precondition to employment actually is discriminatory based on the 1st amendment.
    Also, if the company is good to their employees, the union wouldn't be needed. If they treat their employees terrible, the employee would opt for unionization. It keeps the employer on their toes. The unions are like politicians, they only care about the money coming in as that's their income. Look at the salaries that union officials make. It's sometimes 5-10 times that of the rank and file.

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    Red Blooded American The Doctor's Avatar
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    I believe every employee should be able to negotiate compensation based upon his/her performance. The employee who produces more than another should not receive identical compensation. Union wages go against this principal across the board.

    All motivation to perform is ruined the moment a guaranteed compensation is agreed upon and the entire workforce has the same rewards for showing up. That's about all they'll do is show up and perform the bare minimum.

    Now, for you union members that want to tell us all how the apprenticeship programs create a superior worker, I'll say this:
    The moment an employee can garner a superior wage for superior work, he'll find a program that affords him that opportunity and they will pop up all over the place once the union mandate is removed.

    I worked in the Mason's union here in Phoenix and subsequently owned my own non-union company. The majority of my masons had a union card in their pockets but worked for me because I paid on a performance scale which gave them a superior income and they were smart enough to invest rather than leave that to some overpaid union organization to do for them.

    As far as unions in government? Oh please? Exactly whom are they negotiating with every time they want another raise in wage or benefits? Nobody beyond the government itself. That's how we now have government workers receiving superior compensation for equivalent private sector jobs.

    It's a house of cards that is now beginning to tumble on itself. The amount of unfunded union pensions is probably in the trillions now.
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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Union apprenticeships do not guarantee quality!! I don't think that I'd go to a surgeon because he had a union card!!!

    I know an electrician who didn't go through a union apprenticeship but is probably more qualified than anyone. Has a number of electrician working for him. None are union apprenticed...of course he studied electrical engineering. Probably couldn't get that through an apprenticeship program!!

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    Default Yeah, but.......

    If it wasn't for the strength of the UAW those drunks and stoners working for Chrysler wouldn't have gotten there jobs back... The thought that an "impaired" worker might be assembling your new cars suspension some afternoon is not a good one. However, if you knew what I know about AIRCRAFT assembly lines, I doubt you'd ever fly again.....

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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    If it wasn't for the strength of the UAW those drunks and stoners working for Chrysler wouldn't have gotten there jobs back... The thought that an "impaired" worker might be assembling your new cars suspension some afternoon is not a good one. However, if you knew what I know about AIRCRAFT assembly lines, I doubt you'd ever fly again.....

    Ray
    Impaired workers are dangerous anywhere. We've had a few working on the docks. We would pull them out of the equipment only to have the BA come out and threaten to shut you down unless you put him back to work....WTF???? The safety of their own workforce is on the line and they protect a drunk or high employee.
    We had a BA in Tacoma that would pull the guy out of the equipment himself if he thought they were impaired in any way and tell him that he didn't want to see him in the hall for a week. If an employee was dogging it and the BA agreed, he'd pull him out. We never had to fire anyone there. That's the way it should be!!!

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    I would like someone like Richard Till, 1986, and others to answer this. I retired from a union after 37 years. My dad was in the union. Every company I ever worked for, and those that my dad did, and the company he owed, have had to compete against non union companies for work. It keeps the workers FULLY aware they are competeing EVERY DAY for their jobs. If the company doesn't sign on work, they go home.

    Why then, should there ever be a monopoly in labor, in any field. Richard Till posted on another thread, that united they trive, divided they fail. FAIL???? Are you fucking kidding me. You FAIL if you not surrounded by thugs and the threat of closing down another Hostess? You need numbers to get the money you THINK you're worth. In 37 years, I think I worked about 15 of them for wages. All the rest were above scale. WHY? The boss didn't HAVE to pay me that. I never threatened to walk off the job if I didn't get it. The union sure as fuck didn't get me that increase. But YOU need your thug buddies just to KEEP you job? WHY?

    WHY should a union have a monopoly on the labor. Does the company? Did Hostess have a monopoly? Does Ford, GM or Chrysler? Why shouldn't the company be allowed to shop labor costs. They shop every other cost.
    Every shop I ever worked for shopped material costs.

    Why are unions so afraid to compete, when they fully expect the companies they work for to compete, and sometimes against non union companies. I would be ashamed to say could not compete against a non union worker, and you should too.

    Where is the competition in a fire department, police department, teachers, city clerical, etc etc etc. WHY should those jobs ONLY be open to people that are willing to feed the corrupt kitty? Kick backs in the way of dues? WHY? Is there some threat here. How are these workers REQUIRED to compete, and PRODUCE? What is the encentive to exceed? There is none, and as a result, they don't. THEY CRUISE!!! Thats the problem. Let them ALL compete, in wages and production, like others in this world, and let the best rise to the top, and let the rest FAIL!!!!!!! Not thrive in numbers, but prevail thru effort and PRODUCTION!

    You should be ashamed to admit you could only prevail thru solidarity of numbers like a gang!Stand up on your own efforts and results. If you can't compete, you don't deserve it. Nobody is guaranteed shit in this life. You EARN what you get, you don't get it thru extortion!



    Why is it that they cannot see they are the largest part of why jobs are over seas. EPA and labor regs are the 1-2 punch that is kicking businesses ass, and the DEMOCRATES are the ones that pushed BOTH!!!

    If you cannot stand up on your own two feet and compete as a union against non union shops, you SUCK! I have done it all my life. YOU what to coast. NO MORE. Those days are over friend. Congrates, your greed broke the system.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jet-Daytona View Post
    Your opinion? The Unions are on the ropes and
    Florida is a right to work state, there are no unions to speak of here. Wages are pretty low, but taxes and cost of living are usually lower too. This state's biz is mostly tourism, agriculture including citrus, and building houses for old people to retire. There isn't much other industry or factory jobs.

    We're 100 yrs past the point where some supervisor can arbitrarily dock you a day's pay.

    IMO, the economy is better off when somebody can be fired for no reason. It makes employers too reluctant to hire when they might be stuck with a bad employee forever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Brown View Post
    I'm still chuckling at being "poo-pooed" for straying off topic. Awesome.

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    Senior Member Smallblocksperry's Avatar
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    Default union vs non union

    i make 45.91$ an hour here in california as a local 12 heavy equipment mechanic, worked for the same company for 10 years

    if i go to texas (a non union deal) and do the same thing im doing for the same company my rate will be less than 20$ an hour.

    option seems pretty obvious to me

    LIVE BETTER WORK UNION

    carry on....

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallblocksperry View Post
    i make 45.91$ an hour here in california as a local 12 heavy equipment mechanic, worked for the same company for 10 years

    if i go to texas (a non union deal) and do the same thing im doing for the same company my rate will be less than 20$ an hour.

    option seems pretty obvious to me

    LIVE BETTER WORK UNION

    carry on....
    BUt you forgot that you can probably by the same house for 1/2 the price in Tx as you can in Ca. There is no state income tax in Tx and the overall cost of living is much cheaper in Tx. Have you ever wondered why the highest cost of living states in the country are also the biggest union states ?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you were not racist, then you better find someone else to vote for to prove your not stupid.

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    Icy
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    Also the unemployment difference between states. Health of the treasury between States is something to consider too since most Unions today are State Employees or Employees working on State and Federal contracts.

    Is that rate sustainable for long term? A degreed engineer doesn't even make that for several years. They'd have to be mid-level by the time they can even compete.

    I don't mind Unions, but you shouldn't be FORCED to be in one. If you want to go package up all the operators that want to work Union that's fine with me as long as the guys that don't want to work for one are not excluded by law or agreement and dues are not forced.
    Last edited by Icy; 12-17-2012 at 12:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallblocksperry View Post
    i make 45.91$ an hour here in california as a local 12 heavy equipment mechanic, worked for the same company for 10 years

    if i go to texas (a non union deal) and do the same thing im doing for the same company my rate will be less than 20$ an hour.

    option seems pretty obvious to me

    LIVE BETTER WORK UNION

    carry on....
    Which is why California is a bankrupt State.

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