DEATH PANELS....They're Here!
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DEATH PANELS....They're Here!

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    83 Crusader - 468 BBC SNiC's Avatar
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    Default DEATH PANELS....They're Here!

    We were told if we implemented Obama Care this sort of thing was NOT supposed to happen....
    Who did they say wanted to "push Granny off the cliff" ?

    Texas hospital may cease treatment for sick man| Latest News Videos | Fox News



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    Senior Member Mr. Travels's Avatar
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    Default Death panels

    Obama Army puppets
    Last edited by Mr. Travels; 12-19-2015 at 11:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SNiC View Post
    We were told if we implemented Obama Care this sort of thing was NOT supposed to happen....
    Who did they say wanted to "push Granny off the cliff" ?

    Texas hospital may cease treatment for sick man| Latest News Videos | Fox News

    SNIC
    You must be mentally unstable to think this is an Obama Care issue.

    The issue, as was stated in the video you posted, was regarding who should have the final say in ending the man's life in TEXAS.
    Everything that you post, you misrepresent the truth in an attempt to put the Presidents plans in a bad light.

    Do you really not comprehend what you hear or read?
    Maybe you should be concerned, as according to the lady in the video, it's about quality of life, and yours must suck, from being brain dead.

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    Let me get this straight- so Health insurance companies never make decisions about who gets treatment and who doesn't, based on age? Any system that has money in it will have to have the line drawn somewhere. I used to love to fly- been into aircratf my whole life- but I don't fly anymore because the airline industry HAS to draw a line somewhere between safety and cost- and, while workin at NAS Alameda, I worked with several guys who worked for United, Delta, etc.....They told me about how they make some maintenance decisions.....

    Remember the DC-10 that had the engine roll up over the wing on take-off, causing the plane to roll over and crash? Everyone died; The DC-10 engine pylon is a poor design, so they have special engine stands with sensors to keep from damaging the pylon attachments when installing the engine.....They had two which were being used, so the maintenance manager decided to use a FORKLIFT to mount the engine....damaging the attachment bolts, which cracked at full power, killing 260 people. That is the tip of the iceberg......My point is, tho, all companies have to make decisions between profits and safety/customer service......I just sometimes disagree where that line is drawn.....

    Look at transplants- if you are over a certain age, you ain't getting a transplant...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cvxjet View Post
    Let me get this straight- so Health insurance companies never make decisions about who gets treatment and who doesn't, based on age? Any system that has money in it will have to have the line drawn somewhere. I used to love to fly- been into aircratf my whole life- but I don't fly anymore because the airline industry HAS to draw a line somewhere between safety and cost- and, while workin at NAS Alameda, I worked with several guys who worked for United, Delta, etc.....They told me about how they make some maintenance decisions.....

    Remember the DC-10 that had the engine roll up over the wing on take-off, causing the plane to roll over and crash? Everyone died; The DC-10 engine pylon is a poor design, so they have special engine stands with sensors to keep from damaging the pylon attachments when installing the engine.....They had two which were being used, so the maintenance manager decided to use a FORKLIFT to mount the engine....damaging the attachment bolts, which cracked at full power, killing 260 people. That is the tip of the iceberg......My point is, tho, all companies have to make decisions between profits and safety/customer service......I just sometimes disagree where that line is drawn.....

    Look at transplants- if you are over a certain age, you ain't getting a transplant...
    This actually wasn't about insurance, in the video it was stated the man had no insurance.
    What SNIC indicated was that it was due to OBAMA CARE, and in this case there appeared to be no OBAMA CARE involved.

    Perhaps, if there had been some insurance as now required by OBAMA CARE, it would not have been an issue.

    SNIC just likes to stir shit up.

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    I just find it interesting that Progressives perceive human life as a dispensable commodity whenever it satisfies their agenda.... not only in the womb, but in the Golden years as well. Sadly, it would appear Progressives view this inhumane event as nothing more than a VERY late term abortion........ You call it what you want....I will call it for what it is.... HEARTLESS BASTARDS!
    Last edited by SNiC; 12-19-2015 at 10:12 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post
    This actually wasn't about insurance, in the video it was stated the man had no insurance.
    What SNIC indicated was that it was due to OBAMA CARE, and in this case there appeared to be no OBAMA CARE involved.

    Perhaps, if there had been some insurance as now required by OBAMA CARE, it would not have been an issue.

    SNIC just likes to stir shit up.
    So what is the extra tax/fine for, if one fails to procure insurance? Overall status according to the IRS and who ever can't be determined until April 15th 2016 for this individual. If a pregnant undocumented woman was admitted to the same hospital and a Baby born that was determined to need life support etc. you can bet your left nut ( if you have any) that things would be taken care of.

    Are we aware that he ( the patient) made zero effort to get insurance? Could he have been too sick? What about the millions who have no capacity what so ever to make their way through the ridiculous websites to procure insurance to begin with? Is there proof that all individuals in this country can stake claim to the ability to get insurance regardless of mental capacity?


    Again, what is the extra tax/fine for, if one fails to procure insurance?

    Jimsplace, your argument has merit. What that merit is/means, clubs assholes like yourself directly on your shit filled head.
    The government's monetary role is to maintain the integrity of the monetary unit, not participate in fraud

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson-jet View Post
    So what is the extra tax/fine for, if one fails to procure insurance? Overall status according to the IRS and who ever can't be determined until April 15th 2016 for this individual. If a pregnant undocumented woman was admitted to the same hospital and a Baby born that was determined to need life support etc. you can bet your left nut ( if you have any) that things would be taken care of.

    Are we aware that he ( the patient) made zero effort to get insurance? Could he have been too sick? What about the millions who have no capacity what so ever to make their way through the ridiculous websites to procure insurance to begin with? Is there proof that all individuals in this country can stake claim to the ability to get insurance regardless of mental capacity?


    Again, what is the extra tax/fine for, if one fails to procure insurance?

    Jimsplace, your argument has merit. What that merit is/means, clubs assholes like yourself directly on your shit filled head.
    There is a penalty for not having some sort of insurance, and then you comment something about, "Can't be determined until April 15."
    Do you have insurance? If you do, you will have a card that was issued by your insurance company. That's how it's determined you carry insurance.
    I assume you haven't been to a doctor for a while. When you go, they will want a copy of your insurance card, and then, they verify what your coverage plan actually covers and that it is valid.

    In this Country, it has been the law of the land to provide necessary medical treatment by hospitals for many, many years to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay or their legal status. It's been that way for as long as I remember.

    I don't think it was mentioned why he didn't appear to have insurance in the video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Travels View Post
    This is what happens the new Obama which is now the old,so his plan doesn't change for him and his family or any other that's under him in government. We have heard over & over people that signed up now paying more out of pocket and for many it's like going over a cliff. So how do you keep the people well. More the working population should make it bearable to afford a not so high dollar plan. Let's find the solution.
    You're right, in that his medical plan doesn't change, but it applies to the House and Senate too.
    I haven't heard any Right-Wing Tea Party members proposing for it to change either.
    So, where are they when it comes to their benefits (Entitlements) being reduced to common people status, which would help reduce taxes.

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    Almost any politician is never going to turn down free stuff- They are intitled....Because they are above us!

    I fully understand that in 99% of things, capitalism is a far better system than any form of "socialism", but I look at the healthcare industry, and it makes me question whether pure capitalism is what we want there.....Let's face it, noone, anywhere, would want a doctor to say, "You may need an operation, but I can go take care of this other guy because he offered more money!"......The most extreme right winger would see that as ridiculous. That is, obviously, Capitalism taken to the far extreme.....And yet, if the govt gets involved, well, then politicians get involved.....And you start handing out stuff to people that haven't earned it....

    I really wish that BOTH sides had worked together to solve the healthcare problems in this country, but first the GOP said they wouldn't even talk with Obama on healthcare, and then Obama basically turned his nose up to them. We always have solved the most intractable problems in this country by pooling our ideas and taking the best from both sides...Of course, we don't do that anymore.

    Just to mention one benefit of a govt run healthcare system, I was dating a lady who had sailed a sailboat from Hawaii down to Australia- when they stopped in NZ, she had a hernia, and so went to the hospital, expecting to be there for a couple of weeks- They took her later that day for surgery, and because it was laproscopic, she was able to walk back to the boat, herself that day! On the other hand, I had hernia surgery here, and it was open, so I was layed up for 3 weeks- one week I could hardly do anything, the next week I was able to walk around and stuff, but couldn't go to work, and then week three I was on light duty.

    The thing here is, because the govt healthcare system was looking at the big picture, they ONLY do laproscopic because it takes people less time to heal, so they get back to work quicker......In the capitalistic system, the health ins. company doesn't care about "Getting back to work"...They don't have to deal with that "Lost work"cost.

    Simply put, what I am saying is we should be able to come up with a system that works BETTER than everyone elses- Thats what we (Usually) do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cvxjet View Post
    Almost any politician is never going to turn down free stuff- They are intitled....Because they are above us!

    I fully understand that in 99% of things, capitalism is a far better system than any form of "socialism", but I look at the healthcare industry, and it makes me question whether pure capitalism is what we want there.....Let's face it, noone, anywhere, would want a doctor to say, "You may need an operation, but I can go take care of this other guy because he offered more money!"......The most extreme right winger would see that as ridiculous. That is, obviously, Capitalism taken to the far extreme.....And yet, if the govt gets involved, well, then politicians get involved.....And you start handing out stuff to people that haven't earned it....

    I really wish that BOTH sides had worked together to solve the healthcare problems in this country, but first the GOP said they wouldn't even talk with Obama on healthcare, and then Obama basically turned his nose up to them. We always have solved the most intractable problems in this country by pooling our ideas and taking the best from both sides...Of course, we don't do that anymore.

    Just to mention one benefit of a govt run healthcare system, I was dating a lady who had sailed a sailboat from Hawaii down to Australia- when they stopped in NZ, she had a hernia, and so went to the hospital, expecting to be there for a couple of weeks- They took her later that day for surgery, and because it was laproscopic, she was able to walk back to the boat, herself that day! On the other hand, I had hernia surgery here, and it was open, so I was layed up for 3 weeks- one week I could hardly do anything, the next week I was able to walk around and stuff, but couldn't go to work, and then week three I was on light duty.

    The thing here is, because the govt healthcare system was looking at the big picture, they ONLY do laproscopic because it takes people less time to heal, so they get back to work quicker......In the capitalistic system, the health ins. company doesn't care about "Getting back to work"...They don't have to deal with that "Lost work"cost.

    Simply put, what I am saying is we should be able to come up with a system that works BETTER than everyone elses- Thats what we (Usually) do.

    I'm not sure you can compare Capitalism with Socialism.
    The concept of Capitalism is about making money, while Socialism is more about meeting the needs of society.

    Capitalism is an economic systembased on private ownership of the means of productionandthe creationof goods and services for profit.
    Socialism is a political ideology and movement that seeks to improve society and social conditions.

    IMO, it appears that those who have the money have power, while those who have little or no money have almost no power or influence.
    Most of us have little or no money compared to the billionaires.
    A billionaire, incountriesthatusetheshort scalenumbernamingsystem, is a personwithanet worth of at least one billion (1,000,000,000; athousandmillion)

    There are slightly over 500 billionaires in the US.

    Is there any question why the politicians want to reduce the taxes for the wealth? -- Do I hear influence?
    Who do you think will make up that difference that's lost when it happens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cvxjet View Post
    Almost any politician is never going to turn down free stuff- They are intitled....Because they are above us!

    I fully understand that in 99% of things, capitalism is a far better system than any form of "socialism", but I look at the healthcare industry, and it makes me question whether pure capitalism is what we want there.....Let's face it, noone, anywhere, would want a doctor to say, "You may need an operation, but I can go take care of this other guy because he offered more money!"......The most extreme right winger would see that as ridiculous. That is, obviously, Capitalism taken to the far extreme.....And yet, if the govt gets involved, well, then politicians get involved.....And you start handing out stuff to people that haven't earned it....

    Simply put, what I am saying is we should be able to come up with a system that works BETTER than everyone elses- Thats what we (Usually) do.
    I certainly agree that, "99% of things, capitalism is a far better system than any form of "socialism"", but turning over our health care systems and the most precious gift of all, "human life", over to the largest group of incompetent people on this earth, is not a representative of the remaining 1%. As just one example, these inept "Gov Employees" could not even develop a functional dot com web site.... and then look at how much they spent and to this day the site is riddled with functional errors.

    Granted we can all site examples of when a "gov run" health care system may have advantage over private care, but these examples are few and far between. We do not need the inept mentality of gov employees managing our health care. The V.A. is managed and run by the Gov, look how that has turned out. To think the quality of Gov run health care would be any different fulfills the definition of "insane". And to add, if we took 100% of "health care" out of the private sector, what will fuel the entrepreneurial spirit and incentives to explore and develop new technologies? The vast majority of countries who utilize Gov Run Health Care have voiced deep concerns as they have always looked to the United States for these new miracle drugs and the innovated advancements in health care technologies.

    And, I agree 100% with your closing statement, especially when I read "we" as meaning "we the people".
    Last edited by SNiC; 12-21-2015 at 09:48 AM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by SNiC View Post
    I certainly agree that, "99% of things, capitalism is a far better system than any form of "socialism"", but turning over our health care systems and the most precious gift of all, "human life", over to the largest group of incompetent people on this earth, is not a representative of the remaining 1%. As just one example, these inept "Gov Employees" could not even develop a functional dot com web site.... and then look at how much they spent and to this day the site is riddled with functional errors.

    Granted we can all site examples of when a "gov run" health care system may have advantage over private care, but these examples are few and far between. We do not need the inept mentality of gov employees managing our health care. The V.A. is managed and run by the Gov, look how that has turned out. To think the quality of Gov run health care would be any different fulfills the definition of "insane". And to add, if we took 100% of "health care" out of the private sector, what will fuel the entrepreneurial spirit and incentives to explore and develop new technologies? The vast majority of countries who utilize Gov Run Health Care have voiced deep concerns as they have always looked to the United States for these new miracle drugs and advancements in health care technologies.

    And, I agree 100% with your closing statement, especially when I read "we" as meaning "we the people".
    No doubt about that. The only thing the government is really good at is growing more government.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"

    - - Robert A. Heinlein

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    There is no way we can completely eliminate Govt........Our courts, our military, police and fire dept......Of course there are inept idiots in our govt- I can think of almost 500 right now in the federal govt!

    But the biggest problem with "Govt" is Hubris- Arrogance.....And the root cause of Hubris is power....And, of course, power can be in many forms; Any large organization can generate this type of problem....That includes big business; Some corp' can control the situation by having a board toss a CEO when they start making bad decisions....At least with some govt positions, you only have to wait 4-8 years and that person is gone.....But look at some of the corp leaders that have jacked up companies; Two of the biggest are Jacque Nasser(Ford) and Ken Lay......Nasser screwed Ford into the ground with bad decisions, then got a gigantic golden parachute....And then he had the gall to come back and try to buy the luxury brands(AM, Jag, etc) from Ford- Unbelievable! The guy should be in jail! And don't get me started on Lay.

    We need more accountability, both in Govt and in Business; We gave all those banks, etc huge bailouts, and they don't have to pay them back(And some of that money went to bonuses for doing a "Good job(Of wrecking the economy)". When some leader makes bad decisions, knowingly, instead of the corporation suffering, the guy who made the bad decisions should be in trouble.....Nasser actually made the decision to recommend LOWERING the air pressure in the Firestone tires...That is the opposite to what you should do in that situation where the tire tread is seperating.....It will generate MORE heat!

    As far as Government, I want term limits for every politician, no retirement pay, and they must spend at least 250 days a year IN their district, voting on bills and such electronicly.

    I will tell you, as an ex-federal worker, I have seen some real losers....But a large portion of the govt workers actually do a good job, and care about what they are doing. At the Coast Guard base, they would have moral days with a barbecue and sports- Then the Coasties would get to go home 2-3 hours early....Sometimes the Capt' of the base would allow the 3 civilians to go home early too....All three of us would usually stay at least a little past to get more work done- and I'm talking about a total of 5 people- two retired and were replaced. I know we see horror stories about corruption and worse, but a lot of times that is with the LEADERSHIP....Meaning Hubris and power exploitation. That problem is universal- where there is power.

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