Armed protesters occupying national wildlife refuge building vow long stay
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Armed protesters occupying national wildlife refuge building vow long stay

  1. #1
    Marine Organism Forkin' Crazy's Avatar
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    Default Armed protesters occupying national wildlife refuge building vow long stay

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"

    - - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Senior Member bville's Avatar
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    Dwight Hammond 73 & his son Steve were sentenced to 5 years in prison each.This because a fire they set on their land got away from them and burned 139 acres of land administered by the BLM.
    Meanwhile in colorado in august the Animas was flooded with 3 million gals.of toxic sludge.This happened under the direct supervision of the EPA, no one has been punished.
    Last edited by bville; 01-04-2016 at 09:08 PM.

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    Red Blooded American The Doctor's Avatar
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    EPA, BLM and many other three-letter acronym agencies within our federal government need to be done away with and the few VITAL responsibility should be managed by another agency.

    Who owns this building? A bunch of bureaucrats or the American People who now occupy it? Honest question? Their protest has few similarities to those acceptable by this administration in Baltimore and Ferguson.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
    EPA, BLM and many other three-letter acronym agencies within our federal government need to be done away with and the few VITAL responsibility should be managed by another agency.

    Who owns this building? A bunch of bureaucrats or the American People who now occupy it? Honest question? Their protest has few similarities to those acceptable by this administration in Baltimore and Ferguson.


    DOC, ARE YOU FOR REAL? -- A bunch of bureaucrats or the American People who now occupy it? Honest question?

    THE BUILDING IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY. THE INDIVIDUALS WHO TAKE OVER GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS ARE VIOLATING THE LAW OF THE LAND.
    I KNOW YOU LIKE TO INCITE WEAK MINDED PEOPLE , AND THERE CERTAINLY SEEMS TO BE MANY ON THIS SITE, BUT PICK SOMETHING THAT ISN'T AS IRRATIONAL AS THIS MATTER.

    IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING ABOUT PUBLIC BUILDING AND WHO OWNS THEM, THEN GO TO CITY HALL AND WALK IN THE MAYORS OFFICE UN-ANOUNCED AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
    Last edited by jimsplace; 01-05-2016 at 12:51 PM.

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    Default Just to be clear...

    The father and Son in question were NOT sentenced to 5 years. They were sentenced to 1 year and served their time.... Then an appeals court decided their jail time wasn't long enough under "mandatory" sentencing guidelines, so they were slapped with another 4 years to make it a total of 5 years instead of the 1 year they already served..

    It is this court action that is being protested, not the guilt or innocence, not the land use issues, it is the re sentencing that has their panties in a bunch.. The father and Son have reported to a California prison to began serving the, in some people's mind, unconstitutional sentence...
    Ray

    PS I take no side in this protest with the exception of defending their right to protest. How they chose to do it is another issue altogether..
    Last edited by Moneypit; 01-05-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneypit View Post
    The father and Son in question were NOT sentenced to 5 years. They were sentenced to 1 year and served their time.... Then an appeals court decided their jail time wasn't long enough under "mandatory" sentencing guidelines, so they were slapped with another 4 years to make it a total of 5 years instead of the 1 year they already served..

    It is this court action that is being protested, not the guilt or innocence, not the land use issues, it is the re sentencing that has their panties in a bunch.. The father and Son have reported to a California prison to began serving the, in some people's mind, unconstitutional sentence...
    Ray

    PS I take no side in this protest with the exception of defending their right to protest. How they chose to do it is another issue altogether..

    The information I have shows,

    When the Hammonds were originally sentenced, they argued that the ​minimum mandatory sentence for arson on federal land—five years—was unconstitutional, according to the U.S. district attorney’s office in Oregon. The trial court agreed and reduced the sentence. But an appeals court eventually upheld the federal law, and a judge imposed the mandatory sentence last October, with credit for time the Hammonds already served. The father served three months, while the son, who was also found guilty of committing arson on public lands in 2006, served one year, according to the Associated Press.

    I assume they have a right to protest, but being armed and taking of a federal building may be a problem.
    The information I have shows there have been conflicts between the individuals and the Federal Government before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post


    DOC, ARE YOU FOR REAL? -- A bunch of bureaucrats or the American People who now occupy it? Honest question?

    THE BUILDING IS UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY. THE INDIVIDUALS WHO TAKE OVER GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS ARE VIOLATING THE LAW OF THE LAND.
    I KNOW YOU LIKE TO INCITE WEAK MINDED PEOPLE , AND THERE CERTAINLY SEEMS TO BE MANY ON THIS SITE, BUT PICK SOMETHING THAT ISN'T AS IRRATIONAL AS THIS MATTER.

    IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING ABOUT PUBLIC BUILDING AND WHO OWNS THEM, THEN GO TO CITY HALL AND WALK IN THE MAYORS OFFICE UN-ANOUNCED AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
    The question was...............Who OWNS the building................ANSWER........WE THE PEOPLE

    Yes an un-announced visit wouldn't be a good idea...........but the people own everything in the Mayor's office except his personal effects...........From what I understand that land building was empty.......no one was put out or being held against their will............The truth is there should be thousands more "we the people" showing up every day to stand with the people already there...........It was a power play by the Government (appeals court) that caused this.........

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    It seems as though at the center of these events we are always seeing a government over reach .
    Often brought on by
    Government intrusion
    Government Secrecy
    or Corporate influence on Government

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    Quote Originally Posted by purpledragon View Post
    The question was...............Who OWNS the building................ANSWER........WE THE PEOPLE

    Yes an un-announced visit wouldn't be a good idea...........but the people own everything in the Mayor's office except his personal effects...........From what I understand that land building was empty.......no one was put out or being held against their will............The truth is there should be thousands more "we the people" showing up every day to stand with the people already there...........It was a power play by the Government (appeals court) that caused this.........
    While it's true that, "WE" the people, I suppose own everything, sort of. I don't think I'll be standing in that crowd with my gun.
    I'd also suggest not getting in a POLICE car and driving off, even though "WE" sort of own it.

    As far as there being a power play taking place, my thought is the lower court is actually responsible.
    It's my understanding there is a minimum sentence for their offense of 5 years and the lower court for whatever reason ignored that requirement.
    The Appeals Court reviewed the case and concluded the lower Court had acted improperly.

    The Lower court was probably local and the ranchers were influential enough to gain sympathy or just buy the lower penalty.
    Who knows, maybe the lower court was just a bunch of liberals that don't enforce the laws on the books.
    I wasn't there and I'm sure there is more to the story than I know.

    Peaceful protest is one thing, but when people start showing up with guns, you can bet that I won't be there, and I will hope no one gets hurt.
    Last edited by jimsplace; 01-05-2016 at 04:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bville View Post
    It seems as though at the center of these events we are always seeing a government over reach .
    Often brought on by
    Government intrusion
    Government Secrecy
    or Corporate influence on Government
    I can agree that Corporate influence on Government is often involved, but in this case the intrusion was a couple of ranchers violating the law and burning government land.
    There's not much secrecy going on in this case, it's pretty public.

    The occupying of any Government building or land illegally is never a good idea.
    Whoever does it will never win, nor should they.

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    Senior Member bville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsplace View Post
    I can agree that Corporate influence on Government is often involved, but in this case the intrusion was a couple of ranchers violating the law and burning government land.
    There's not much secrecy going on in this case, it's pretty public.

    The occupying of any Government building or land illegally is never a good idea.
    Whoever does it will never win, nor should they.
    So you don't feel that 5 years is a bit much for a 73 year old man?

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    Marine Organism Forkin' Crazy's Avatar
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    Thumbs down JUGGY!!! A mind it a terrible thing to waste. Jelly head!!!

    Christ!!! The men already served their sentence!!! Then the judge (a liberal Obama supporter no doubt!!!) decided it wasn't enough. ??? You are that far gone. With offspring coming from people like you, we are doomed!!!
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"

    - - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forkin' Crazy View Post
    Christ!!! The men already served their sentence!!! Then the judge (a liberal Obama supporter no doubt!!!) decided it wasn't enough. ??? You are that far gone. With offspring coming from people like you, we are doomed!!!
    Just the other day you were Posting and BITCHIN' like a little girl that laws weren't being enforced because of Liberals, now you're siding with the law breaker.
    What do you want?

    The truth is, You just want to bitch and carry on like a spoiled brat.
    You weren't there, you don't know what happened and you sure as hell don't know the law.

    You say, "With offspring coming from people like you, we are doomed!!"
    You might be right, but at least they will be better than you, and you're here now.
    That's enough to make everyone puke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bville View Post
    So you don't feel that 5 years is a bit much for a 73 year old man?
    Honestly, it's a good question and I don't know.

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