Time has come to end the tax exemptions for churches
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Time has come to end the tax exemptions for churches

  1. #1
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    Default Time has come to end the tax exemptions for churches

    This has to be eliminated. Churches have ducked paying trillions in taxes over many years. I'm tired of subsidizing religion! Talk about an entitlement!! I find it ironic how people criticize social programs, Unions, Government workers yet say nothing about the freeloader tax dodging churches. They hide behind the separation of Church and State to duck paying taxes. What a joke. End the hypocrisy. Pay your damn taxes like all other businesses!!!
    Where are the Conservatives on this?? Where are the Liberals on this???
    Last edited by zombie; 02-28-2011 at 09:02 PM.

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    Red Blooded American The Doctor's Avatar
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    I'm thinking you may need to take up religion. If you feel it's unfairly profitable, start your own church and preach the gospel of Zombie. I have no doubt you will have quite an unusual following until they find out how much work it is and start seeking truth.

    How's about you join and faithfully attend a church for a decade. Offer your services to help administer the responsibilities and help balance the books then get back to all of us. Until then, this is like the Government of Mexico telling the United States of America what's wrong with our constitution and how its time for a change. I sincerely doubt you will even catch the correlation.
    The best things in life aren't things!

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    Hell Yea, you ZOMBIE!!! I hear ya!!! We need to get the rest too!!! Take the YWCA, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, Boys and Girls Club of America, Red Cross, Salvation Army, 4-H Clubs, etc.

    Again, idiot.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life"

    - - Robert A. Heinlein

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    Hell...why don't we end all tax exemptions for everyone. And while we're at it lets end all deductions for every taxpayer. Afterall the government does not have enough money and we all know they know how to spend our money much better than we do. But in order to make everything fair....you know how the lefties like to make things fair, why don't we end all the tax issues once and for all.....100% tax rate on everyone. If you make $100K/annually, that is your tax. Short and sweet, your tax return can be done on a post card with 2 lines....Line 1] How much did you make? Line 2] Send it to us.
    Within the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved. "Good grief you're an irritating blowhard...." [Tex 6/16/11]

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    Icy
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    I don't attend church and haven't since I was 12.

    I think your idea is poorly thought-out and lacks proper analysis of the real world. This thread seems to be started just to get a rise out of people.

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    Senior Member bville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    This has to be eliminated. Churches have ducked paying trillions in taxes over many years. I'm tired of subsidizing religion! Talk about an entitlement!! I find it ironic how people criticize social programs, Unions, Government workers yet say nothing about the freeloader tax dodging churches. They hide behind the separation of Church and State to duck paying taxes. What a joke. End the hypocrisy. Pay your damn taxes like all other businesses!!!
    Where are the Conservatives on this?? Where are the Liberals on this???
    The goverment does't subsidize churches.Check your Websters for definition.BTW nobody really cares what your tired of.

  8. #7
    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Although Zombies' post is confrontational in it's context, He does touch on an area where fraud is rampant, IMO.
    "Churches" is a broad and varied, all encompassing brush.
    It includes everything from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake down to the snake charmer in a shack in the deep South. From Catholics and Protestants down to "The Church of whatever".

    I have known more than one person who was a card carrying minister that used that strictly for tax reasons.
    One in particular evaded tax's at a very high level using this as a shield, and I found it extremely disgusting. He had over 50 employees at one point, and every year he took 25 of them to his time shares in Mexico (Actually, his "Churches'" time shares).
    Much of his income was diverted and "washed" through his so called Church. All of this was "Church" expense.

    Then You have the very large and well known Churches that have holdings and earn dividends on a global scale. Big Business, basically.
    I have never seen a tax return schedule for a Church, so am not familiar with the details of separation of taxable and non-taxable monies.

    But I know that unscrupulous people DO use that as a shelter.

    When I was much younger, I had a very good friend and co-worker at a machine shop. He was younger than Me, and heavily involved in his church. (He actually was the youngest board member of his church in the Country). He married the Preachers daughter.

    After He was married, his FIL spent a good deal of time at the machine / repair shop we opened together. The conversations that I was privy to with the Preacher centered around one topic, and one topic only....money.
    I understand that this is a (if not "THE") major part of the job, and is what keeps Churches functioning, just like anything else. But the shit that guy pulled was off the hook.
    (He was not the same guy that had the time shares)
    New Cadillac every year, wife dressed in furs, etc. I had zero respect for that guy.
    He actually told m that the Church was strictly a business no less than any other, and his #1 job was to generate revenue.
    My buddy eventually resigned from the board and took his tithe elsewhere.

    So, I can't disagree with Zombie outright. Big Churches are big business, with political connections, representation that can be bought and sold, lawyers and lobbyists, etc.

    So, please school Me here. Where is the line drawn for Churches regarding taxable and non-taxable monies??
    Last edited by thatguy; 03-01-2011 at 06:19 AM.
    Tommy
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    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
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    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    This has to be eliminated. Churches have ducked paying trillions in taxes over many years. I'm tired of subsidizing religion! Talk about an entitlement!! I find it ironic how people criticize social programs, Unions, Government workers yet say nothing about the freeloader tax dodging churches. They hide behind the separation of Church and State to duck paying taxes. What a joke. End the hypocrisy. Pay your damn taxes like all other businesses!!!
    Where are the Conservatives on this?? Where are the Liberals on this???
    Funny how the guy that whines the loudest for cutting entitlements can't see this, but then his head is so far up his ass, he'll never see daylight again. After all, if something benefits him, he's all for it. But when it doesn't, it needs to be cut. Talk about narrow mindedness and selfish behavior.

  10. #9
    "On the road again..." Old Texan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    Although Zombies' post is confrontational in it's context, He does touch on an area where fraud is rampant, IMO.
    "Churches" is a broad and varied, all encompassing brush.
    It includes everything from the Tabernacle in Salt Lake down to the snake charmer in a shack in the deep South. From Catholics and Protestants down to "The Church of whatever".

    I have known more than one person who was a card carrying minister that used that strictly for tax reasons.
    One in particular evaded tax's at a very high level using this as a shield, and I found it extremely disgusting. He had over 50 employees at one point, and every year he took 25 of them to his time shares in Mexico (Actually, his "Churches'" time shares).
    Much of his income was diverted and "washed" through his so called Church. All of this was "Church" expense.

    Then You have the very large and well known Churches that have holdings and earn dividends on a global scale. Big Business, basically.
    I have never seen a tax return schedule for a Church, so am not familiar with the details of separation of taxable and non-taxable monies.

    But I know that unscrupulous people DO use that as a shelter.

    When I was much younger, I had a very good friend and co-worker at a machine shop. He was younger than Me, and heavily involved in his church. (He actually was the youngest board member of his church in the Country). He married the Preachers daughter.

    After He was married, his FIL spent a good deal of time at the machine / repair shop we opened together. The conversations that I was privy to with the Preacher centered around one topic, and one topic only....money.
    I understand that this is a (if not "THE") major part of the job, and is what keeps Churches functioning, just like anything else. But the shit that guy pulled was off the hook.
    (He was not the same guy that had the time shares)
    New Cadillac every year, wife dressed in furs, etc. I had zero respect for that guy.
    He actually told m that the Church was strictly a business no less than any other, and his #1 job was to generate revenue.
    My buddy eventually resigned from the board and took his tithe elsewhere.

    So, I can't disagree with Zombie outright. Big Churches are big business, with political connections, representation that can be bought and sold, lawyers and lobbyists, etc.

    So, please school Me here. Where is the line drawn for Churches regarding taxable and non-taxable monies??
    I see the situation pretty much the same way. Many of the "ultra churches" with preachers flying helicopters to several locations each Sunday are far more than the original intent of the tax laws.

    When churches start running credit unions and other for profit centers, lines become very hazy.

    I have no problems with tax except status for the church buildings and original intent operations, but there are are far too many crossing the lines of these original intents.
    "Bottle by bottle, I'm clearing off that shelf...."

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ram78d10 View Post
    Funny how the guy that whines the loudest for cutting entitlements can't see this, but then his head is so far up his ass, he'll never see daylight again. After all, if something benefits him, he's all for it. But when it doesn't, it needs to be cut. Talk about narrow mindedness and selfish behavior.
    I think it's time we have a cage match and you 2 can get your aggressions over with.......Will you be wearing a mask to conceal your identity Ram?
    "Bottle by bottle, I'm clearing off that shelf...."

  12. #11
    Living in a cage of fear thatguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Texan View Post
    I think it's time we have a cage match and you 2 can get your aggressions over with.......Will you be wearing a mask to conceal your identity Ram?
    I'm laying smart money on "The Doctor"!

    Funny, isn't it? A troll with no identity attacking a MAN with no known vices?
    Tommy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexone View Post
    Tommy please remove all Jimsplace quotes from your sig and don't put more back. He doesn't like it and it is against the rules. Thank you.
    "So as through a glass, and darkly
    The age long strife I see
    Where I fought in many guises,
    Many names, but always me."

    Gen. George S Patton

  13. #12
    "On the road again..." Old Texan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    I'm laying smart money on "The Doctor"!

    Funny, isn't it? A troll with no identity attacking a MAN with no known vices?
    Again I'm with ya TG.
    "Bottle by bottle, I'm clearing off that shelf...."

  14. #13
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    I agree, the exemption for churches needs to be addressed. I don't know that complete loss of tax exempt statuts is the answer because there is a great deal of "charity" involved with many religeous institiutions. The problem is the mass fraud perpetrated by many of the leaders and those involved in the administration, not unlike our govt. hhhhhmmmmm.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Boss460's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how property tax is done for non-profits like this but anyway...

    If you want to tax non-profits, just levy the normal property tax with a small exemption to cover most churches. That way these "ultra churches" you speak of will at least be paying somewhat of a fair share. There's a big church here that built a new location not long ago. Right on the side of the interstate and about 10 times larger than was needed. We call it Six Flags over Jesus.

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