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Discussion Starter #1
Ive seen these things advertised for years, but have never used one.
Would this be a useful thing to have on a boat that does not like warm restarts?

How can it recharge with a typical alternator?

The entire starting system on my boat is brand new, but the thing just forces me to wait an hour every time I shut it off before I can restart.
And even then it's very slow.

I've tried 2 batteries, and that makes no difference.

I need to solve this, and am just wondering if a 14v or 16v batt would do the trick.
 

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sounds like youve got an issue that a 14 or 16v battery wont fix.

reason i say this is my engine is 14.7:1 compression and i run a small Odyssey gel battery and have no problem firing the engine even after driving it for 15 minutes and getting it hot.

have you tried to retard the ignition timing with a start retard box?

how about an external solenoid to ensure you are getting full power to the starter?

is the engine block sufficiently grounded?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
sounds like youve got an issue that a 14 or 16v battery wont fix.

reason i say this is my engine is 14.7:1 compression and i run a small Odyssey gel battery and have no problem firing the engine even after driving it for 15 minutes and getting it hot.

have you tried to retard the ignition timing with a start retard box?

how about an external solenoid to ensure you are getting full power to the starter?

is the engine block sufficiently grounded?
It's a typical Ford setup.
Top mount starter.
Pos cable-solenoid-pos cable-starter motor-neg cable.

One of the starter bolts holds the neg cable.

Think an extra engine ground would help this?

Ignition is an MSD 6al.


It's also a brand new motor.

Not sure it's a timing issue.
This motor is pretty hard to turn over with the plugs in.
New Arias pistons are, I think, about 10.0-1.
Drove it for the first time today for 1 1/2 hours non stop.
Ran good.
 

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It's a typical Ford setup.
Top mount starter.
Pos cable-solenoid-pos cable-starter motor-neg cable.

One of the starter bolts holds the neg cable.

Think an extra engine ground would help this?

Ignition is an MSD 6al.


It's also a brand new motor.

Not sure it's a timing issue.
This motor is pretty hard to turn over with the plugs in.
New Arias pistons are, I think, about 10.0-1.
Drove it for the first time today for 1 1/2 hours non stop.
Ran good.
DEI makes a good reflective heat wrap that you can put around the starter. might help.
 

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Ive seen these things advertised for years, but have never used one.
Would this be a useful thing to have on a boat that does not like warm restarts?

.
That's something other than a starter issue.

I wonder if a relay would help?


S CP
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If a 14v or 16v battery would not help, what exactly are they for?
 

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Haven't you been having starting issues with this since the motor was new? Just making sure I'm not mixing up my threads...
Anyway, honestly sounds like your missing something simple (I hope). If the same threads I was reading before you had a guy rebuild the starter and then check it and say it was good right??? Maybe double check it with another guy, see what kind of amperage its pulling. Even borrow another just to be sure. Also check your timing (initial), then double check, Just cover the basics again. Honestly, you should not be having the issues you're having. Once you are VERY sure all the electrical is good (connections are clean and tight,no corrosion) and rule out the starter (for sure) and timing (for sure) then you might want to look at the motor itself, if this is the same motor that had such tight clearances....just my thoughts. I hope this helps....I know you've got to be super frustrated at this point. Hope you get it sorted out, good luck
 

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If you're looking for more voltage I have some spare 24V nickel cadmium batteries and some Lead Acid batterys. The NC batteries are a bit pricy though. :)sphss
 

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Something you might try, with the motor cold, and with a known good and fully charged battery, disable the ignition and spin it over for 10-15 seconds. Does it spin normally ie good steady cranking speed? If it does it might be a timing issue, it it doesn't, feel each connection for the battery cables..See if one it hotter than the others.. I just had same issue with mine and the cable end at the starter got plenty hot...brand new cable. I cut the crimp on end off a soldered a new lug on the end of the cable.
If it's the starter it should be hot to the touch.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The battery is a new walmart marine batt that load test good and recovers back to 12.6v no problem.
The solenoid/relay is new.
The 2 gauge cables are all new.
The battery is in the r/r corner of the boat, so the cables are not long.
No voltage drops over .3v anywhere, but the starter get very hot when cranking.
A remote starter switch on the solenoid makes no difference.
If I could even find a starter like this one, I would try it since it probably is very old.
Initial timing is about 10 b.

This motor is harder to turn than the last one, but only with the plugs in.
I did not have this problem with the old stock 460.

My gut tells me a I need a stronger starter, but I cannot find a new top mount starter anywhere.
 

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I would try a new starter. A old weak starter will draw a lot of Amps, and make it hard to turn over. Had this happen more the once before..
 

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I would try a new starter. A old weak starter will draw a lot of Amps, and make it hard to turn over. Had this happen more the once before..
X2...and the more you use it the worse it gets. A starter motor that can't make decent rpm will burn the commutator, causing more heat and more heat makes the starter turn slower, that burns the commutator even more.
Might pull the end plate off the motor and take a look...nice shiny copper plates or brown and melted across the insulator.....And can't see a motor being that difficult to rotate...nobody buys a special starter just because they run 13.0-1 compression....or big cubic in...or a supercharger

When in doubt hook decent jumper cables from a running car directly to the starter and see what happens....if it still don't spin fast what else could it be?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The starter was just "rebuilt", which could mean anything...:)coffee

I'll try the jumper cable thing.
That's the only thing I have not tried.
 

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Your not running a new wally world deep cycle battery are you. I had the same issue when I got my rv. Guy had a deep cycle in it for engine, wouldnt crank for shit hot. Switched to a nondeep cycle and no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Your not running a new wally world deep cycle battery are you. I had the same issue when I got my rv. Guy had a deep cycle in it for engine, wouldnt crank for shit hot. Switched to a nondeep cycle and no problems.
It says marine on it.
It worked fine last year with a different motor, even though it is only like 600cca.

You used to be able to get 1000cca batteries everywhere.
I just don't see them any more.
 

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It says marine on it.
It worked fine last year with a different motor, even though it is only like 600cca.

You used to be able to get 1000cca batteries everywhere.
I just don't see them any more.
Years ago I bought a "marine" battery from autozone and I think it was 800CCA's(?), anyways it was junk. I now have a regular Duralast Gold 850CCA and it works OK.
12-1 460, 38* locked out. I use a switch to light the MSD ign. a few seconds after the engine is turning over. The box I have has a start retard feature that seems to help. My luck with mini torque starters is horrible and I've used this stock starter going on its third season.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The starter was just "rebuilt", which could mean anything...:)coffee

You should take it to these guys and get a second opinion.

Starters , Alternators, generators, repair, replace, build

I know that they are far away, but it is well worth the drive. I can even take it to them for you and see what they say, I am working near there this week.

Good Luck
I know where that shop is.
I spent most of my life in San Jose.
I just moved out here 2 years ago, and I am already commuting back to Sunnyvale to work myself.:)coffee
I think the only thriving industry in Modesto is fast food and hospital workers.:mad:
If I don't get this solved by the time I go back to work later in the week, I'll take it to them.
Thanks for the recommendation.
 
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