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Discussion Starter #21
I am running a Moroso 10-qt. pan

I drilled and tapped the big hex nut that is used for the drain and threaded the end (elbow) of an EZ-drain hose into it... when I want to change the oil, I pull the top of the EZ-drain hose off the brass Tee and connect it to a drill pump... works great

When I first tested with clear tubing to see if the oil flowed through well... I had my brother lean over the engine and watch while I ran the engine at various speeds

Typically as I passed 3200rpm, the oil would start flowing steadily and never backed up in the pipe as I suspected it may do... the stock drain holes in the heads are functional as always
I love It that is an awsome idea :)bulb
 

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Horsepower sells Engines
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well if your drain plug is already in use go buy a weld in bung, drill out a hole, weld in the bung and a way you go. i never realized there was that much oil backed up in the heads. do the olds after market heads have the same problem? i live the idea to have it mounted to the drain plug giving you a place to pull the oil out i love it. if you are dealing with low clearance like i was with my stock pan on a BBC and three point mount, use a ban-go fitting (an elbow did not fit in the area)
 

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i never realized there was that much oil backed up in the heads. do the olds after market heads have the same problem
The large hex-plug I talk about is located at the back right 'side' of the pan in the bottom corner

With the hex plug tapped for the right angled EZ-drain fitting, there is just barely enuff room to change the oil filter... I will take a pic. when I can

The Edelbrock heads don't need the extra oil return mods
 

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Great info below.....I found alot of that at ROP, but the pics help a ton too. Sorry I am hijacking.....but what are the limitations(hp/trq) of the mods listed below? Is there still room for improvement? At some point is too much oil in the bottom end a bad thing? Ive read some arguments againist the HV pump vs the std pump. Does anyone have opinions here?

How about oil coolers? Pros and cons there? My plan(read idea), was to have a remote oil filter and making a encasing(coil) out of copper pipe to go around the filter) and use it like an oil cooler with water from the pump(like how the motor is cooled). Sounds mad scientist I know, but hey....that's how I think sometimes. If that's just the worst idea ever...please let me know, my skin is thick, and most importantly I am here to learn.

Speaking of which....I still would like to know about these "Wa" heads. I read though the whole Olds info pages...several times. I even have a set of the Ka heads(which I know are accepted replacement for the heads on a w-30 442). Maybe the Wa were "export" items, I noted that Jet Mad is from S. Africa. Or maybe the Wa were strictly for this irrigation application. Anyone got any pics of those....curiousity has got the best of me...also interested what kind of pumps the irrigation motors run....what kind of cams they used....etc. Or are the marine/irrigation motors the same?




I would add...
-drill the holes in the upper main bearing shells to 5/16" to match the holes in the block

-external oil drains from the heads to the pan are an option to drilling the stock rear oil return holes larger... I run mine to a Tee then to the E-Z drain hose... I tested with clear plastic tubing... worked great

-the holes you re-drill into the rotated cam bearings would be 3/32"

-ensure that the oil galley plugs that lube the timing chain at the front, and the rear one that lubes the dist. gear are drilled with a .040" hole... the rebuild kit pieces are usually undrilled

-improve fuel delivery to carb

Drains:


Rod notches:
 

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"Mad" Member
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Great info below.....I found alot of that at ROP, but the pics help a ton too. Sorry I am hijacking.....but what are the limitations(hp/trq) of the mods listed below? Is there still room for improvement? At some point is too much oil in the bottom end a bad thing? Ive read some arguments againist the HV pump vs the std pump. Does anyone have opinions here?

How about oil coolers? Pros and cons there? My plan(read idea), was to have a remote oil filter and making a encasing(coil) out of copper pipe to go around the filter) and use it like an oil cooler with water from the pump(like how the motor is cooled). Sounds mad scientist I know, but hey....that's how I think sometimes. If that's just the worst idea ever...please let me know, my skin is thick, and most importantly I am here to learn.


Speaking of which....I still would like to know about these "Wa" heads. I read though the whole Olds info pages...several times. I even have a set of the Ka heads(which I know are accepted replacement for the heads on a w-30 442). Maybe the Wa were "export" items, I noted that Jet Mad is from S. Africa. Or maybe the Wa were strictly for this irrigation application. Anyone got any pics of those....curiousity has got the best of me...also interested what kind of pumps the irrigation motors run....what kind of cams they used....etc. Or are the marine/irrigation motors the same?
Here is some info I found on a website. Hope I don't get into sh#t for copy right infringment or something, but it makes for intersting reading.

As far as I know you do not get "Wa" heads.

The "J" heads Hondo1 has is the small valve "smog" heads and is not for performance.



ID/ Casting
Code Year(s) CID Number Notes
A '65 425 381917?? 1st year, big cars.
386525
B '65 400 389298 442 only, one year only.
D '66 - '67 425 389244 Big-car engine. Toro is different internally.
E '66 - '67 400 390925 442 engine [VERY rare].
F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif).
F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical
and a base serif.
Fa '72 - '76 455 396021 Very common big block. Marine also (L VIN derivative).
G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine.
L '76 455 231788 Motorhome, marine and irrigation. GM made motorhomes
from '73-8, maybe in all? Casting number appears
as "231 [tiny 'L'] 788" on the block. ID/ Use Casting
Code Year(s) CID CCs Number Notes
A '65 400 80 383821 Unique 3/8" stud and nut rocker
425 mounting, using a 3-piece rocker
pivot assembly; all except irrigation
B '65 400 80 383821 Later '65 heads. Some use 3-piece
B '65 425 rocker pivot asssembly.
B '66 400 80 389395 Toro's and 442's got the big [2.072"]
B '66 425 valves. Some use 3-piece rocker pivot
asssembly. "-1" after the casting number
on all B heads after April 21, 1966.
C '67 - '69 425 80 394548 A/C '68 H/O's. Toro's and 442's got big.
455 valves. Rumored to flow the best of all BB
heads. Can still be found.
CA Very small ~3/8" ID lettering.
D* '68 - '69 400 69.75 400370 All W-30. Non A/C '68 H/O's. All '69 H/O's.
All big-valve.
455 69.75 400370
DA
E '68 - '70 455 77,80 403686 455's in general, with 442/Toro's
having big valves.
F* '70 455 80 404438 W-30's. All big-valve units.
G '71 455 80 409100 Generic 455 use, big valves in the
usual applications.
Ga '72 455 80 409100 W-30's, manual 442's used big valves.
H* '71 455 80 409160 W-30's. Big Valve units.
J '73 - '76 455 80,82 411783 All 445's. 'Smog heads',
restrictive exhaust valve pockets.
No big valve units.
K** 455 80 413191
Ka** '73 - '76 455 80 413191 Marine, irrigation, industrial, W-30/Toro,
442 4-speed replacement head. Most were
big valve units.
 

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"Mad" Member
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The info i'm reading states the "J" heads can come with small and large valves depending on application.
According to the powers that be the "C" casting heads flows the best of the Olds heads. The one website states that if you have one of these heads: F;C;K;D castings you are what it spells. lol:D

J 411783 80, 82cc 2.000" 1.625" 1973-76 455 "smog" motors. Standard [small] valves: 2.000 and 1.625", even Toronado, 442, etc. [presumably]. Exhaust port is choked off to about 1" diameter just under the valve. No blocked heat crossover. Rotators, deep spring seats, hardened exhaust seats. Very common. Avoid.
 

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camusmuse: Ive read some arguments againist the HV pump vs the std pump. Does anyone have opinions here?
asking if any one has opinions on the hv pumps is a very hot topic. not that i am an olds expert, or even close, but i believe the only time you need more volume is if you have two low of pressure. both pumps will flow the exact same amount of oil at the exact same pressure, the restriction doesn't change.
camusmuse: How about oil coolers? Pros and cons there? My plan(read idea), was to have a remote oil filter and making a encasing(coil) out of copper pipe to go around the filter) and use it like an oil cooler with water from the pump(like how the motor is cooled). Sounds mad scientist I know, but hey....that's how I think sometimes. If that's just the worst idea ever...please let me know, my skin is thick, and most importantly I am here to learn.
for the oil cooler... buy one... making one your self leaves you open to having a huge failure in the middle of the lake. do you really believe you need one what is your oil temp at? if you are going to run an remote oil filter it would be supper easy
 

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in the hot boat article that timminator wrote, I think july "06" all the olds BB cyl. heads are basically the same, the only differences are valve sizes, and he really seems to know the olds motors in boats. so I would say with the big valves they should all flow about the same. also (at least around me) machine shop prices are so high that after all the work and all the $ in new parts you would be better off buying a set of aluminum heads from edelbrock.
 

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asking if any one has opinions on the hv pumps is a very hot topic. not that i am an olds expert, or even close, but i believe the only time you need more volume is if you have two low of pressure. both pumps will flow the exact same amount of oil at the exact same pressure, the restriction doesn't change.

for the oil cooler... buy one... making one your self leaves you open to having a huge failure in the middle of the lake. do you really believe you need one what is your oil temp at? if you are going to run an remote oil filter it would be supper easy
heh...my oil temp is room temp right now.....Im still in the planning stages. trying to absorb as much info as possible. I kinda thought my cooler idea was a little silly, but have seen sillier things work....thanks for the info
 

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in the hot boat article that timminator wrote, I think july "06" all...
I have that edition... timminator said something about the Old's being considered the "Redheaded Stepchild" of GM marine engines... I got a huge laugh out of that one

BTW... I ran the stock oil pump for 13-seasons with a welded on pick-up and the relief spring shimmed with 2 flat washers... also, it is a good idea to add a second gear chamber cover to stiffen the pump... some claim it is known to flex... hard to believe, but apparently so
 

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being redheaded myself....I like my 455's even more now.....:)sphss

I tried to contact timminator through pm here to see if i could get ahold of that article....no response....think there might be a copyright thing there or something though....oh well

thanks for the tips on the stock oil pump...they will go on my "list"...

I have that edition... timminator said something about the Old's being considered the "Redheaded Stepchild" of GM marine engines... I got a huge laugh out of that one

BTW... I ran the stock oil pump for 13-seasons with a welded on pick-up and the relief spring shimmed with 2 flat washers... also, it is a good idea to add a second gear chamber cover to stiffen the pump... some claim it is known to flex... hard to believe, but apparently so
 

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H/V vs Std oil pump

Here is my theory,

I don't see the pump as a H/V pump but "High pressure" pump.

You get a H/V standard pressure oil pump and H/V high pressure pump.

The H/V-High Pressure pumps is normally for Diesel engines.(tight clearances)
H/V - Standard Pressure pumps gas engines

Why do people shim the std pump spring? You can't turn the pump into a H/V pump by diong it. You shim the spring to keep the bypass closed for longer ie. more pressure to mains etc.

Why I use a H/V - H/P pump.

With the oiling mods on the BBO, restricters, bigger clearances etc you need more pressure otherwise at idle, very low oil pressure and when you hit the throttle no oil on the crank.The spring opens a valve to release pressure because to much pressure isn't good. It bypasses the filter as well and the oil doesn't get cleaned. Without the restricters and Std or H/V pump the oil just goes to the heads.

Before I spun the big end on my BBO the Oil pressure was 4 Psi at idle and 6 Psi at 4250 RPM. Bearing was spun due to incorrect clearances, over revving when the pump unloaded and a dead spark plug.

Just my opinion.
 

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my two cents...

It seems to me that a High Volume pump becomes a High Pressure pump, when the passage(s) become restricted. That is, pressure is a function of volume and restriction.....much like a jet pump?

Now restricting only part of the equation(like what I perceive is being done to the Olds motors) would actually create both high volume(bottom end) and high pressure(top end). This would require a "Heavy Duty" pump...which maybe what the upgrade really is???

That all could be total fiction, but that's how it all has been making sense in my head. Dangerous "waters" for sure...:)sphss
 

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I have a copy of it. Not to sure how to mail it as its buried deep in the guts of my puter. Shoot me an e mail address and I can try.
 
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