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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #1
It is crazy how dead it is over here. Well, I am getting ready to assemble a mild blown big block Chevy for someone, so I figured I would let everyone tell me what I am doing wrong. 😉 The build will be relatively modest as the power expected will be reasonable. It should last a long time in its new home as long as attention is given where and when needed.

Well so far I have washed the block and gave the bores a good cleaning. I always like to give them a “last wipe down” before smacking the pistons in, but a white towel comes out clean when wiped with a solvent. It usually takes me about two to three hours to get the bores as clean as I would like to see them.

Next I filed the rings. Being a blower setup, and knowing the water used to cool it will be cold I used a very conservative gap. For under 15 pounds of boost it called for .026” on the top rings, and for over 15 pounds called for .030”. Well, being used in a cold water coolant setup I always fudge a little over on ring gaps. (I figure rings a little wide might have a touch more blow by, but just a smidge too tight will tear off the top ring land, I always error on the side of safety an extra.001). Well with my fudge factor, and also knowing how boat guys are never satisfied I set the rings for the over 15 pounds gap. (Again, if it were mine and I could guarantee blower pullies never got changed I would have kept them tighter). Anyway, that is as far as we are right now. I will continue to add photos and info as we go.

Paul
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #2
While waiting for my son to go to sleep, I will share more info. S we are using an old American forged crank and eagle rods. We had Racetec whittle up a set of pistons that will be right at 8.0 to 1 compression. (I will measure everything up to get official numbers later). It will be setup for pump gas, but I think I talked the owners into an gas for the fact that it won’t go bad as fast and it does not [email protected] ethanol in it. Most of the engine is from a previous build I did, but never ran, so we are cust changing pistons and cam for the most part, but still doing a full measure up as it is just the right thing to do. So anyway, on the forged pistons we will be using 1.5mm, 1.5mm, 3mm plasma moly rings. I thought about going with a different ring, but again, knowing how well they seat, and having an issue in the past with a harder ring seating due to lack of cylinder pressure I wanted it to be a no brained for them. I am using King racing bearings as I have had good experience with them as well as Clevite. King was probably on sale when I bought these. 😝 The block is a Gen V block, so I am using a rear main seal adaptor for the two piece rear main seal crank. Here is the fun part (fingers crossed it all works out) I am using a gen VI cam and timing set as to use the cam thrust plate so the owner will not need to worry about cam thrust with either the timing cover or the water pump. We are using a Rollermaster set with an iwis chain. The cam is a Herbert solid roller that my machines and I chose for its softer ramps, therefor easier on the valvetrain. It has a cast gear on it so it can use a regular gear. Comp solid rollers and .080 wall pushrods will wrap things up below the heads. Oiling will be taken care of with a Melling high volume pump and a Dan Olsen oil pan. ARP main studs will be holding the bottom end together as well as the heads on. The only change to that is I like using head bolts on the short bolts as studs tend to hit the header flanges on factory (non raised exhaust port) heads. (I will show pictures when I get to that point for clarity). The factory Gen V rectangle port heads (almost a copy of the old 990’s) are ported and have 2.25” intake and 1.9” exhaust valves. It will have Crane gold rockers and somebody’s stud girdles that I had on the shelf (not sure of the maker). It will be spinning a Romac blower balancer and have a timing cover from Connelly marine. The owner is going to buy and install the blower setup as well as carbs and fuel system (so don’t expect those pictures lol). Anyway, that is the gist of where we are right now. More to come as it comes together.

Paul
 

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Some guy
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Hard to tell if you are spoofing about 2-3 hours to clean cylinder walls? What are you using to clean the cylinder walls? I always hit them with ATF immediately after washing the block to limit the flash rust that happens so quickly. Then I alternate between aerosol carb cleaner and Marvel Mystery oil on white paper towels. Last round of cleaning before putting the pistons in I use the Akerly and Childs assembly lube that I put on the cylinder walls and rings, wipe it out one last time with the carb cleaner (brake clean also works, doesn't seem to get dirt out quite as quickly). Once I am satisfied that I have clean bores, I put the final light coat of Akerly and Childs assembly lube. It's some sort of light, clear oil. Same stuff gets wiped around piston skirts and rings, and ring compressor tool.

Maybe took me 2-3 hours to write this, but doesn't seem to take that long to get clean bores, figured I would share my method.
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #4
Hard to tell if you are spoofing about 2-3 hours to clean cylinder walls? What are you using to clean the cylinder walls? I always hit them with ATF immediately after washing the block to limit the flash rust that happens so quickly. Then I alternate between aerosol carb cleaner and Marvel Mystery oil on white paper towels. Last round of cleaning before putting the pistons in I use the Akerly and Childs assembly lube that I put on the cylinder walls and rings, wipe it out one last time with the carb cleaner (brake clean also works, doesn't seem to get dirt out quite as quickly). Once I am satisfied that I have clean bores, I put the final light coat of Akerly and Childs assembly lube. It's some sort of light, clear oil. Same stuff gets wiped around piston skirts and rings, and ring compressor tool.

Maybe took me 2-3 hours to write this, but doesn't seem to take that long to get clean bores, figured I would share my method.
Not much different. I start with engine degreaser at first just after washing as it also keeps down on the rust and also starts to break down the machining oil that is embedded in the cross hatch with the honing junk. Then I alternate between lacquer thinner and Wd40 with white towels at first, and then white paper towels. I keep doing it till the paper towels come out as white as they went in. I also do a last wipe and lube like you just before putting pistons in with the same Childs and Albert lube (I assume it is the same as Akerly and Childs stuff). If I am really going fast it will be about two albums (yes I still listen to complete cd’s and each is about an hour). If I am going slower trying to be easy on my hands it will be longer. I could probably be faster but I am not. 😆
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #5
So here I am getting the ring gaps set. I have a ring squaring tool, but an upside down flat top piston with oil rings still in it will work just as well to square them in the bore and be consistent. I start checking with a feeler gauge smaller than I want so I can feel as I am getting them close as to not accidentally make one way too big.
 

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Some guy
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Not much different. I start with engine degreaser at first just after washing as it also keeps down on the rust and also starts to break down the machining oil that is embedded in the cross hatch with the honing junk. Then I alternate between lacquer thinner and Wd40 with white towels at first, and then white paper towels. I keep doing it till the paper towels come out as white as they went in. I also do a last wipe and lube like you just before putting pistons in with the same Childs and Albert lube (I assume it is the same as Akerly and Childs stuff). If I am really going fast it will be about two albums (yes I still listen to complete cd’s and each is about an hour). If I am going slower trying to be easy on my hands it will be longer. I could probably be faster but I am not. 😆
I thought at some point Childs and Albert became Akerly and Childs, but I could be wrong. I have one of the ring cutting tools, my friend developed and made those for them with the RC car motors.

At what point did you learn that white paper towels were superior to rags for cleaning parts? I found out when GT Performance first set up their dyno, with an Oberg filter. Somewhere around that time I was also told WD 40 was not the best thing to use in the bores. If you have not tried Marvel Mystery Oil,, it's a great cleaning agent, as is the ATF.
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #7
I thought at some point Childs and Albert became Akerly and Childs, but I could be wrong. I have one of the ring cutting tools, my friend developed and made those for them with the RC car motors.

At what point did you learn that white paper towels were superior to rags for cleaning parts? I found out when GT Performance first set up their dyno, with an Oberg filter. Somewhere around that time I was also told WD 40 was not the best thing to use in the bores. If you have not tried Marvel Mystery Oil,, it's a great cleaning agent, as is the ATF.
Good info. I was told that by a machinist about twenty years ago. It just stuck. I have used marvel on bores and piston skirts on engines that I was going to fire right away. Had not thought of it as a cleaning agent. Good to know. I have a “fisher price” electric ring cutter and it’s motor is so weak it is worthless. I dream of upgrading it some time but not now. I have a hand crank style that I use. It is decent if I count how many turns to get the cut I need. Again, by taking my time I can keep the tolerances tight. The one thing rarely mentioned is them prepping the edges of the cut ring. There is usually a rough edge that will snag in the ring land or scrape a bore. I use a wet stone to knock the jagged edge off and make sure there won’t be a problem. I think that is often overlooked by first timers.

This is crazy! Actual talk about building engine on this site. Thanks for the comments.

Paul
 

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Some guy
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Good info. I was told that by a machinist about twenty years ago. It just stuck. I have used marvel on bores and piston skirts on engines that I was going to fire right away. Had not thought of it as a cleaning agent. Good to know. I have a “fisher price” electric ring cutter and it’s motor is so weak it is worthless. I dream of upgrading it some time but not now. I have a hand crank style that I use. It is decent if I count how many turns to get the cut I need. Again, by taking my time I can keep the tolerances tight. The one thing rarely mentioned is them prepping the edges of the cut ring. There is usually a rough edge that will snag in the ring land or scrape a bore. I use a wet stone to knock the jagged edge off and make sure there won’t be a problem. I think that is often overlooked by first timers.

This is crazy! Actual talk about building engine on this site. Thanks for the comments.

Paul
Yep, I have a small file I use, or occasionally use a Dremel tool with a very mild stone to dress the cut edge of the ring. Your project is going together faster than mine, assembled heads and got them on the block, came in for a break before I start the rest of the valve train.
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #10
Yep, I have a small file I use, or occasionally use a Dremel tool with a very mild stone to dress the cut edge of the ring. Your project is going together faster than mine, assembled heads and got them on the block, came in for a break before I start the rest of the valve train.
Don’t jinx me like that. lol Actually I stumbled across an issue with some main bearing clearance so waiting on a new set to arrive. Also waiting on the cam thrust plate as I can not find the one I had here a couple months ago. Must have tossed it by accident. Also need to pull the other pistons off the rods to get the new blower pistons on. I just did one so I could mock it up and check cam timing. Glad I at least got the rings filed. Still need to double check my rod bearing clearance as well. It is going to sit for a couple days as I am a stay at home dad and I need to take care of the kids while my wife is working. You will still beat me.

Paul
 

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Some guy
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Don’t jinx me like that. lol Actually I stumbled across an issue with some main bearing clearance so waiting on a new set to arrive. Also waiting on the cam thrust plate as I can not find the one I had here a couple months ago. Must have tossed it by accident. Also need to pull the other pistons off the rods to get the new blower pistons on. I just did one so I could mock it up and check cam timing. Glad I at least got the rings filed. Still need to double check my rod bearing clearance as well. It is going to sit for a couple days as I am a stay at home dad and I need to take care of the kids while my wife is working. You will still beat me.

Paul
Oh, I thought you had the short block together.

Well, it wasn't really a race, but I found a bad Jesel rocker arm tonight trying to get the valve train together, hoping my buddy Gary Kincaid has something up at his shop I can grab tomorrow so I can adjust the valves and bolt the intake on.

How much difference in weight between your two pistons?
 

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I thought at some point Childs and Albert became Akerly and Childs, but I could be wrong. I have one of the ring cutting tools, my friend developed and made those for them with the RC car motors.

At what point did you learn that white paper towels were superior to rags for cleaning parts? I found out when GT Performance first set up their dyno, with an Oberg filter. Somewhere around that time I was also told WD 40 was not the best thing to use in the bores. If you have not tried Marvel Mystery Oil,, it's a great cleaning agent, as is the ATF.

Any chance of seeing some pictures of your ring filer ?
GD
 

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Some guy
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Any chance of seeing some pictures of your ring filer ?
GD
I can get a photo, think there may be a better option for less money now days. Mine has served me well for who knows how many engines.

Akerly and Childs shows a part number but no photo. My friend in Glendora started making them when the RC race car business slowed down, he started figuring out uses for the motors. Happened that he grew up with cars, and was around alcohol funny cars.
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #16
Well ran into another snag, which is all engine building is. My timing chain has misalignment. The crank gear sits about .025” further back than the cam gear. Looked all over for some ideas and stumbled across a trick some pro’s use. They use pinion gear shims as the id and od are just about perfect for a bbc. I ordered a shim set and when I get it all worked out I will take pics. If it is not one thing it is another. I remember why I like belt drives.

Paul
 

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steelcomp was here
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I've been using WD40 to clean cylinder bores...and a lot of other things...for a LONG time. It's a great solvent. Total Seal recommends it. WD, spray on blue Scott towels, wipe cylinders till clean, dry with Blue Scott towels, blow clean with air, Total Seal Quick Seat on the bores, barely a film thickness of Total Seal assy lube on teh rings before thtey go on the pistons and literally a couple drops of the TS assy lube on the skirts. I would never use assy lube on the cylinder walls. Totally defeats what we're trying to accomplish with ring break-in. I used to load my oil pump with the stuff and I don't even do that any more. I will say I don't know anything about the C&A lube. If it's specially formulated for ring break in, that's cool. If it's like the red stuff that everyone sells under different names, um, I wouldn't recommend using it on anything contacting cylinder walls. I will also say that I've learned the better the machining and the more "proper" the hone program is, the more straight and round the cylinders are, the less critical the cylinder prep and "break in" is.
Red rags are forbidden in my engine room. :((((((
This is a very quick vid from Total Seal. Not real technical, but simple;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z66MXpVKc_0
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #18
Scott, thanks for chiming in with your thoughts as well. I was/am hoping we can actually have a good technical thread where thoughts and ideas are shared like it use to be around here. I figure if we all share our ideas, someone down the line will read this and be better off than they might have been.

By all means, I am welcoming any and all to share thoughts. We don’t all have to perfectly agree, but at least sharing ideas openly should raise the level of the cumulative group.

Paul
 

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Village Idiot
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Discussion Starter #19
Well, made some progress today. Got the clearance on the mains in the range that I was looking for (they are between .0027”-.0031 and .0037 on the rear main). So I dropped the crank in and got it all torqued. Also have .008 for thrust. Measured up the rods and they measured up nice and consistent (at .0024”-.0026”). I installed the rings on the pistons and plopped them in their holes. I took the oil pump apart to make sure everything was good. The pump has .0025 clearance between the gears and the relief housing. That is where I like them. I have not installed the pump yet as I still have more measurements to do, so that will come later. Also, got the cam timing set as well. Had to advance it 4* on the timing set to get it where it was suppose to be.
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Just another Wannabe
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Please tell me that is not one of the only 6 in existence - magnesium single carb cast OLDS NHRA legal part number DRCE1 intakes sitting behind you to the photos right side.
And is that a Pontiac 386 15 degree to the left?
Oh, and that is a nice paint job on the block. Going with a real patina feel??? Or did you let your three year old finger paint it?
 
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