Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Bah...
Joined
·
2,546 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
8 LAPD officers involved in shooting after Dorner 'case of mistaken identity' - U.S. News

By Hetty Chang and Samantha Tata, NBCLosAngeles.com
Bullet holes in front doors, trees and a kitchen serve as reminders of the chaos brought to their Torrance, Calif. neighborhood during a frantic manhunt for an ex-police officer bent on revenge killings.
Nine bullets pierced a tree on Redbeam Avenue where two newspaper delivery women were shot by police officers who had mistaken them for fugitive Christopher Dorner.


Margie Carranza and her 71-year-old mother, Emma Hernandez, were delivering the Los Angeles Times before dawn near the home of a police officer named in Dorner’s angry manifesto.
The shooting occurred Feb. 7 after officers were notified of a truck that matched the description of Dorner’s gray 2005 Nissan Titan. Hernandez suffered two bullet wounds to the back. She was released from the intensive care unit and was recovering. Carranza, 47, had minor injuries related to shattered glass and a wounded finger.The women’s lawyer counted 102 bullet holes in their blue Toyota Tacoma and several more in Hernandez’s hoodie.
Weeks later, memories of the shooting were still evident, with five bullet holes piercing a home’s front door and more in walls and garages that lined the street.
"My guess is that they threw policy out the window and got in trouble," said resident Steve McDonald, whose solar panels sustained bullet damage. "They're lucky they didn't hit each other because there were bullets flying every which way."

NBC4 has learned that eight LAPD officers were involved in the shootout. All of them have been assigned to non-field assignments until "the [police] chief decides otherwise."
So far, their names have not been released and there has been no comment from the Los Angeles District Attorney about pressing charges.
An attorney for the women, Glen Jonas said he’ll let the investigation run its course.
"If the city wants to do it the easy way and get it resolved; if they want to do it for hard way, then we’ll file a lawsuit," he said.
Police said they cannot comment on on-going internal investigations.
But some residents, despite being so close to the gunfire, said they understand the officers’ actions.
"I think they have to be supported through this," said Joanne Arnn. "Yes, it's unfortunate, thank goodness no one here was fatally injured, but it's not a very safe world."
Arnn said that Torrance Police Department contacted each household on the block to learn if anyone was injuries and offered to pay for any damage to their homes.
About two blocks away and thirty minutes after the women were shot, a Redondo Beach man was fired upon by officers who also mistook him for the wanted Dorner.




Quite a mess they made for themselves.. I hope there is some intense ass handings done after all of this. All of those, ahem "officers" should never be allowed to lay hands on a firearm again.
 

·
Floatin dirty
Joined
·
4,831 Posts
You know, I have intentionally tried to stay out of some of these threads but will add my .02 to this one. The decision to use deadly force or not is extremely difficult and must be made in a split second based on observed circumstances of the threat and your state of mind. In defense of your life or others. Now LE receive firearms training or course, some get more training then others depending on their assignment. Some excel at this training but most are probably in the competent to good range and a few fall under the competent line and the radar. In addition to training, mental preparation is critical (What if scenarios). You try to mentally prepare yourself for situations and ready your response to various situations. If you are good at your job then you do your best to train and mentally prepare yourself as best you can, however, when the shit hits the fan and emotion and adrenalin kick in, all that training and preparation "sometimes" falls by the wayside and you lose focus in that split second as the event is happening and you have to make that split second decision on how to react. Also, in group events, if one loses focus it can cause others to as well and you wind up with what is known as "contagious fire".

I am sure if there are any combat veterans on the site, they can probably add more to this as well. All receive combat training the same but under fire not all react the same. I am not going to try and defend this shooting situation because opinions are pretty much already made here but after being present and supervising the processing of crime scenes at dozens and dozens of LE shooting scenes, I understand how "state of mind" during the incident is critical and dictates the response.

Now I know some of you guys like cops and some don't. That's cool, but I think you should all know that the majority of good cops work hard and do their best to train and mentally prepare themselves for responding to critical incidents. They strive to be perfect but we all know, no one can be perfect all of the time. Mistakes are made and it is important to de-brief and evaluate why the mistakes were made and try and ensure that they do not happen again. This is a tall order of course but all you can do is try. To those that think this was a "shoot on sight Bin Laden scenario" well, you guys watch to many movies IMO. The Department needs to acknowledge fault, buy a new truck, pay a fair compensation and move forward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
Besides all being terrible shooters ( thank god ), their next words should be " Welcome to WalMart "!! These are not the kind of public servants I want "protecting" me!!!!
 

·
Floatin dirty
Joined
·
4,831 Posts
It's great to monday morning quarterback huh? Always laugh reading some of the posts from the internet experts. I am just glad the parties were not seriously injured and the incident will be completely reviewed and evaluated to determine why the mistakes happened. As I related previously, perfection would be great and is what the public expects all the time from LE but virtually impossible to obtain given the human factor involved under high stress. God bless those that lost their lives during this dirtbags rampage.
 

·
Re-member
Joined
·
146 Posts
yeah thats good tactics! light the suspect vehicle up and give away your position and element of surprise !
would that be the same element of suprise that they always use on me at night time when I pass the cop sitting behind the bushes and I go by him and he comes flying out sideways in the car i can see him in my mirror fishtailing with his foot shoved through the floorboard then gets 3 feet from my bumper and then hits me with every light he has including his dome light and flashlight like he is beating me into submission then pulls me over and asks why my licensce plate light is out? i said i didnt know it was out it was a company truck that i had just gotten that day. where did i come from &where was i going at 10 pm at night and if i had been drinking and then did his little eye examination on me then when he couldnt bust me for anything throws my license back at me in the truck and bluntly says im lucky hes not going to write me a ticket for the light but id better get it fixed because next time i wont be so lucky. as if he was mad because i wasnt drinking. i thought it was supposed to be the other way around that they do get mad when you are drinking ? i bet if he didnt have that badge and uniform and gun and car he wouldnt have the same attitude when confronting me
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,397 Posts
I have to say, much worse than the inability to tell which truck they were shooting at in the dark, is the fact that all 8 apparently couldn't hit the "Broad side of a barn".....All those bullets flying and the two women survived, one walked away? Guys, turn in your badges and guns at the front desk on your way out!

GN7, maybe that tree was one of them there 100 mph trees that the speed-radar is known to pick up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,509 Posts
It's great to monday morning quarterback huh? Always laugh reading some of the posts from the internet experts. I am just glad the parties were not seriously injured and the incident will be completely reviewed and evaluated to determine why the mistakes happened. As I related previously, perfection would be great and is what the public expects all the time from LE but virtually impossible to obtain given the human factor involved under high stress. God bless those that lost their lives during this dirtbags rampage.
Lavey while I generally agree with you, this time you are wrong and are projecting the dumb cop mentality. When using deadly force it is imperative you absolutely know who's life it is that your trying to take. It would be better to let the suspects escape than kill an unarmed citizen. Issues like this is where you loose all credibility to the public. Sorry but your assessment of that situation is absolute bull shit. Look at the number of bullets fired and the areas they were found and most would agree that this is an embarasment to LAPD!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
Imagine if the general public acted like these morons. Imagine if they were better shots!
The whole idea of hired law inforcement is PROTECTION and an effort to curtail vigilante mobs. And then the LAPD and the Torrance PD turn into just that. So who do we turn to to protect ourselves from the crazed vigilante PD?

Two bad wasn't well armed resident on that street that recognized the women in the truck as the newspaper women, and gunned down every single one of the POS in defense of the defenseless women.
Wonder how the PD and courts would struggle with that?



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Floatin dirty
Joined
·
4,831 Posts
Lavey while I generally agree with you, this time you are wrong and are projecting the dumb cop mentality. When using deadly force it is imperative you absolutely know who's life it is that your trying to take. It would be better to let the suspects escape than kill an unarmed citizen. Issues like this is where you loose all credibility to the public. Sorry but your assessment of that situation is absolute bull shit. Look at the number of bullets fired and the areas they were found and most would agree that this is an embarasment to LAPD!

It's ok to disagree. I am not projecting a dumb cop mentality. I am not defending this as a good shooting but I understand the underlying reasons why incidents such as this occur. We don't know all the facts that led up to the shooting either. Certainly would be some decently far odds that if you were on surveillance in front of a location at O dark thirty and a small truck similar to the suspects truck that had just shot 3 officers with an AK 47 comes cruising slowly down the block, your pucker factor goes to 10. These decisions to use deadly force are made in split seconds under extreme stress and yes mistakes can be made too as I described.

I wish I could set up a training class day for some of you guys at simunition training where you are put through various shoot/don't shoot scenarios. We have done it previously for civilians on oversight committee's and the media. It would give you a good perspective of the pucker factor stress and making a split second decision on whether to shoot or not shoot depending on your observations and state of mind. Whats cool about sims training is they use real 9mm primered rounds in mags and even have AR15 sims rounds too so it is very similar to firing real rounds but they project small paint capsules downrange instead of lead. If one chooses not to wear a vest, they sting pretty good and leave a welt and bruise too. People that have not experienced that type of stress level generally come out of the training with a different perspective.

LAPD should just acknowledge fault and make appropriate compensation to the involved parties.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
185 Posts
Yes I have to add my 2cents also. Back in the 50's 60' and early 70's the LAPD was considered one of the top law enforcement agencies
in the country. They had to start lowering their standards to become more diversified. I any Business when you lower standards you get less qualified personal and more errors happen. I'll guarantee those officers didn't go out and say lets shoot up this truck some of them probably should not have been officers in the first place. Just look at the country and how we have lowered the standards for our hired officials. We've accepted 3.00 gas as a good price. Most of the kids getting out of collage can't get the job that they studied for. God forbid they would have to flip burgers. they would rather stay home with mom and pop and whose fault is that. Yes we've lowered our standards in so many areas we now have nearly 17 trillion in dept. Those kids, and my grand kids are the ones who will suffer but too many of us are selfish and and want the cuts for every other program then ours. We all need to step back and look when the problems started. possibly with the change in the family unit as more single parent families started letting our liberal teachers teach our kids values rather than how our parents taught use good values. By the way my parents were both democrats but they raised a conservative kid with a good work ethic and good values. Now rambling at 10:30
 

·
Boatless Member :(
Joined
·
3,006 Posts
Yes I have to add my 2cents also. Back in the 50's 60' and early 70's the LAPD was considered one of the top law enforcement agencies
in the country. They had to start lowering their standards to become more diversified. I any Business when you lower standards you get less qualified personal and more errors happen. I'll guarantee those officers didn't go out and say lets shoot up this truck some of them probably should not have been officers in the first place. Just look at the country and how we have lowered the standards for our hired officials. We've accepted 3.00 gas as a good price. Most of the kids getting out of collage can't get the job that they studied for. God forbid they would have to flip burgers. they would rather stay home with mom and pop and whose fault is that. Yes we've lowered our standards in so many areas we now have nearly 17 trillion in dept. Those kids, and my grand kids are the ones who will suffer but too many of us are selfish and and want the cuts for every other program then ours. We all need to step back and look when the problems started. possibly with the change in the family unit as more single parent families started letting our liberal teachers teach our kids values rather than how our parents taught use good values. By the way my parents were both democrats but they raised a conservative kid with a good work ethic and good values. Now rambling at 10:30
Maybe they should have studied something with a demand?
 

·
Boatless Member :(
Joined
·
3,006 Posts
What are you saying Icy?
B.A. in Women's Studies — Georgia State University

Stuff like this... Look at the courses especially in Junior/Senior Year . ELECTIVE ELECTIVE ELECTIVE.

What the **** is that?

Where is the civil engineering, electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, specialty engineering, financial analysis, business operations, programming, manufacturing, accounting, marketing, logistics, specialty trade and ect classes? There is none. It's all WORTHLESS. If you get worthless degree, go on welfare or have your parents pay for your sorry ass... I hope you took a Japanese history lesson and know what seppuku is.

That's what I'm saying.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top