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Anyone heard of these. Engine is NA BBC 468, 12.5:1, 7500rpm race only hydro.
Tim
Tim
ACL coated bearings
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Yeah... company is out of Australia... I believe, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but they were originally Repco. Not a bad part... used their "p" series equivlent for quite a few years on stockers and haven't had any issues. Haven't used their race coated bearings as of yet though.
Rule #1,...DONT run a Hard Bearing, on a hard Crank, if the crank is hard, keep to the softer bearings, ......
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From what I remember (not much) Callies recommends ACL bearings to use with their stuff...They are High performance shells, but bonded with a Silicone and Moly coating and recommended for high RPM engines, probably to control the scuff and to form a secondary barrier, but I actually have no idea....
The problem I see with your question is you don't know what shells you have as far as what base was used. (at least you didn't state you knew)...I think the sprint car guys still use them...been a while.
The problem I see with your question is you don't know what shells you have as far as what base was used. (at least you didn't state you knew)...I think the sprint car guys still use them...been a while.
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Running them in Nelson's blown 509. My first time with them, but they came "highly recommended by a reliable asource"
Callies Coated Bearings
Callies coated high performance engine bearings are specifically processed to protect high RPM engines. We begin with the same carefully monitored shell found in our standard bearings. After special preparation, a durable Molybdenum-Disulfide/Graphite lubricant is permanently bonded to the bearing’s load carrying surface. This protective layer is beneficial to your engine during periods of marginal lubrication and cold engine start up. Callies coated bearings are of greatest value within engines using wet sump oiling systems.
Callies maintains a full inventory of coated ACL and Clevite bearings. All brands and sizes can be specially prepared and coated at your request. Callies also offers a full inventory of uncoated bearings as well.
Callies coated high performance engine bearings are specifically processed to protect high RPM engines. We begin with the same carefully monitored shell found in our standard bearings. After special preparation, a durable Molybdenum-Disulfide/Graphite lubricant is permanently bonded to the bearing’s load carrying surface. This protective layer is beneficial to your engine during periods of marginal lubrication and cold engine start up. Callies coated bearings are of greatest value within engines using wet sump oiling systems.
Callies maintains a full inventory of coated ACL and Clevite bearings. All brands and sizes can be specially prepared and coated at your request. Callies also offers a full inventory of uncoated bearings as well.
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5,131 Posts
the site has some interesting information, but I wouldnt advise trying to run a High HP engine on 20W50, the viscosity simply isnt there to handle the bearing loads, and an Engines clearances determine the weight of Oil it has to Operate on, and nearly ALL the guys I knew Racing, built oil pressure cranking, then hit the mag and let the engine fire.
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We used an accumulator tank...Same thing basically...The problem with 20w-50, or any other multivis oil with a large differential is the polymers to make the different weights, more polymers means less oil, less oil can and sometimes does mean less lubrication factor (lubricity), keeping the weights close = less polymers.
Don't know where the multi vis discussion comes in, but there you go.
If you are turning 7500 RPM, I wouldn't recommend a very heavy or a multi anyway...Maybe just me, but run it tight and light...
devil
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Run 5-30 in an 800hp NA BB Chev...been four years. Never been apart, never been hurt. I'd never try that in a blown app, though. Application is the key.We used an accumulator tank...Same thing basically...The problem with 20w-50, or any other multivis oil with a large differential is the polymers to make the different weights, more polymers means less oil, less oil can and sometimes does mean less lubrication factor (lubricity), keeping the weights close = less polymers.
Don't know where the multi vis discussion comes in, but there you go.
If you are turning 7500 RPM, I wouldn't recommend a very heavy or a multi anyway...Maybe just me, but run it tight and light...
We used an accumulator tank...Same thing basically...The problem with 20w-50, or any other multivis oil with a large differential is the polymers to make the different weights, more polymers means less oil, less oil can and sometimes does mean less lubrication factor (lubricity), keeping the weights close = less polymers.
Don't know where the multi vis discussion comes in, but there you go.
If you are turning 7500 RPM, I wouldn't recommend a very heavy or a multi anyway...Maybe just me, but run it tight and light...
a 20W50 Oil means it wont ever get less viscosity than a 20, nor more than a 50....many think it's just the opposite, but it isnt, and 20W50 in an engine with .0035.0045 mains and rod clearances, you DONT want to hear with mufflers, they rattle like shit. and 20W50 in an engine with Aluminum rods is asking asking for it, the oils running away from the parts faster than it's coming in. with .030-.050 side clearance, the oil isnt hanging out on the journal long.
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Just curious.....Why?
There is no way, at 800 HP it could ever take advantage of the 5W, how cold can the oil get? Unless you use the boat in a frigid river, which we sometimes do, the oil gets a viscosity drop if it will be that cold for that long....
In our marathon days, guys would always say "run the 20W-50 dude!" but could never back up why...We had .0042 rod and main clearances and ran stright 30 HP synthetic...This was before the zinc deal, but this oil still has the added zinc (never had the scratch for a roller cam)...
My oil cooler runs off of the outlet water (measures about 120*F on average) and the oil gets to temp almost stupid fast (less than two minutes at a fast idle), so never saw the need...
from what I have read about a lot of oils (I sell Amsoil), the wider the differential, the more polymers, a differential of 20 If memory serves was like the cut off for added polymers...Depends on the manufacturer though, your specific oil may have none, which would be desired...
I only run multi vis oil in the daily drivers and stuff that takes forever and a day to warm up (my motorhome would be a perfect example)..
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You need to help me out here, what do you mean by "many people think the opposite"? Opposite of what?
What else could it mean?
I run Amsoils 0W-30 in my wifes CRV, the thing is a friggen kid taxi and I don't think it has warmed up more than four times in its 60,000 miles :|err
After a 7500 mile oil change, you could put it in another car it's so clean....
The last Honda we had had 345,000 miles on it, Amsoil from day uno....
I am not an advocate of multi vis in a boat with controlled oil temp, seems unnecessary, that's all....
Many think a multi vis is a 20 in the winter, and a 50 in the summer, ...I am talking average joes, and since some in these threads admit to not knowing alot, i am trying to clarify my posts as much as possible
I ran 50W Penzoil in ALL my Race engines, ALL of them, and between .0027- .0032 in all but Aluminum Blocks, I wont run ANYthing less than a 50W in an Aluminum block because of an experiment Mike Landy did on his, heated it to 200 degrees then measured the Mains....and it almost gave him a stroke,
I see no advantage of changing whats always worked for me, and i see only minimal HP increases from friction, to me it isnt worth the potential cost in High Dollar parts, ....
a CRV Honda is a little different than a 3400 HP BAE 6 on Alky thats getting a little in the pan each run.
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687 Posts
From SAE tech pages:
Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufacturers recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Other multigrade synthetics may not use VI improvers either. The full literature available from the oil company should include this information. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle. Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
From Blackstone labs:
From Exxon/mobil tech area
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Question: Do Multi-Viscosity Oils Become Long Molecule Thicker Oils as They Heat Up?Several of us car buffs at the Propulsion Lab have been arguing about what the numbers mean in multi-viscosity SAE designations. I said "The multi-viscosity oil molecules want to link together as they get hotter, and become long molecule thicker oils as they get hotter." Is that statement correct? Ignorant Rocket Scientists at the US Army Propulsion Lab, Redstone Arsenal Rocket City (Huntsville) Alabama-- Tom Turner, Huntsville, AL
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Answer: You are generally correct. Multi–viscosity oils contains polymers called viscosity modifiers and these polymers act to thicken an oil as it heats up in order to provide the high temperature viscosity as in the case of a 5W-30, the 30 grade high temperature viscosity. When these molecules cool they coil up and reduce their thickening properties to give you the low temperature starting and pumping viscosity of 5W oil. That is how the oil can act as a 5W- (low temperature) 30 (high temperature) multi-viscosity oil.
Bla bla bla......et al......I run fixed weight in all race stuff
Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufacturers recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Other multigrade synthetics may not use VI improvers either. The full literature available from the oil company should include this information. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle. Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
From Blackstone labs:
Straight Weight vs. Multi-Grade
Engine oil can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oil was straight weight. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi-viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grade and straight-weight oil is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined with VI additives that leave it reading as an SAE 5W viscosity when cold, yet an SAE 30W when hot (210F). The advantage to the multi-weight is that when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil (with its thickness of an SAE 5W when cold), allows the engine to spin over more easily.
The most common diesel use oil is 15W/40. It is an SAE 15W oil with a VI additive that leaves it the thickness of an SAE 40 weight at operating temperature. What makes an oil a diesel-use oil (rather than automotive-use) is the level of additives used. Diesels require heavier levels of dispersant and anti-wear additives. These heavier additive levels are objectionable for automotive engines since they may interfere with the emission controls mandated by the EPA
Engine oil can be either a straight weight or a multi-grade viscosity. Originally, all oil was straight weight. Relatively few straight weights are manufactured today since most gas- or diesel-engine manufacturers recommend multi-grades. At operating temperature, a straight weight performs just as well as a multi-viscosity oil, and there is nothing wrong with using a straight weight. It's just a simpler form of oil. Some diesel fleets still use straight weights, as do about half the piston aircraft operators.
The difference between multi-grade and straight-weight oil is simply the addition of a viscosity improving (VI) additive. The most common grade of automotive oil in use today is the 5W/30, which is a mineral oil refined with VI additives that leave it reading as an SAE 5W viscosity when cold, yet an SAE 30W when hot (210F). The advantage to the multi-weight is that when starting the engine, the multi-viscosity oil (with its thickness of an SAE 5W when cold), allows the engine to spin over more easily.
The most common diesel use oil is 15W/40. It is an SAE 15W oil with a VI additive that leaves it the thickness of an SAE 40 weight at operating temperature. What makes an oil a diesel-use oil (rather than automotive-use) is the level of additives used. Diesels require heavier levels of dispersant and anti-wear additives. These heavier additive levels are objectionable for automotive engines since they may interfere with the emission controls mandated by the EPA
From Exxon/mobil tech area
Bla bla bla......et al......I run fixed weight in all race stuff
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I never heard of them until my machinist brought it up. What I found is they seem to be made the same as the Federal-Moguls I was running, but now I'll have to go back and look a little closer. This guy builds sprint car engines and was a drag racer for 30+ years. I was also told that NASCAR uses them and a lot of high reving sport compact cars do. The oil I have been running is Mobil1 10w30 syn. Ran it 6 years, 135 passes, and the non-coated bearings looked good except for the #3 rod. I found out the value of a good machinist when the one that turned the crank messed it up. Ruined a set of bearings in 7 passes. I'm waiting now for the new guy to measure everything and get back to me as to what he found and what it's going to take to fix it.
Tim
Tim
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26,528 Posts
Synthetic M1. For this application it's the thinnist oil I feel comfortable with and in a marine application with no oil cooler the oil temp swings can be quite extreme. Thin oil is less drag on the rotating assy, which yields more power. I believe in running as thin an oil as possible and still have the best protection.
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133 Posts
On our alky SBC blower enignes we build these engines are in pulling tractors with a 8-71 blowers 1600 horse they turn 9200 and are chipped at 9500 and pull up to 45 seconds at a time.
These guys are sponsered by CENPECO and the have been using the straight 50 weight for 12 years now and so far no problems, There oil seems to have the highest zinc content 2300 PPM and is low in detergent. Oils with high detergent work against zink protection.
All my circle track guys have been using the AMSOIL products for years with zero problems.
We are partial to the V-series bearing made by Clevite as they seem to be a softer bearing then the H-series and are very forgiving bearing as well. On these engines we do run .004 to .0045 oil clearance and these guys use no oil heaters either.
He is a pic of a rod bearing with approx. 53 hooks about 2 years of running this pic was about 4 years ago and we pull them down every 2 years and the cranks and bearings look very good except the black spots for acid build up in the oil.
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These guys are sponsered by CENPECO and the have been using the straight 50 weight for 12 years now and so far no problems, There oil seems to have the highest zinc content 2300 PPM and is low in detergent. Oils with high detergent work against zink protection.
All my circle track guys have been using the AMSOIL products for years with zero problems.
We are partial to the V-series bearing made by Clevite as they seem to be a softer bearing then the H-series and are very forgiving bearing as well. On these engines we do run .004 to .0045 oil clearance and these guys use no oil heaters either.
He is a pic of a rod bearing with approx. 53 hooks about 2 years of running this pic was about 4 years ago and we pull them down every 2 years and the cranks and bearings look very good except the black spots for acid build up in the oil.
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2,234 Posts
Thanks HAT, BTW I was in no way comparing my 140HP grocery getter to a BAE, simply using it as an example for what I would call a perfect use of multi vis oil....Although my motor home has a 468 EFI Chevy in it...
J/KThanks Steel, I was just curious...
It sounds like what we saw in the rock dodger boat was about right....I feel good about the decisions anyway.
bulb1quickCP, cool article, I have some similar, but some are published by Amsoil and didn't want to start a brand debate...
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