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Anyone use System1 ?

7K views 85 replies 20 participants last post by  gn7 
#1 ·
#2 · (Edited)
A topic that will last forever, but I'll give you a short-cut: ;)

http://www.performanceboats.com//showthread.php?t=28821&highlight=filter

This is one of several threads on the subject.

Edit: And yes I use them and love them. I've had my share of "blow-ups" and broken parts and kept running the engine as long as the oil pressure was up. The filters worked well enough to keep things alive and bearings looking fine. The ease of cleaning them and inspection of the engine oil is great.

S CP :D
 
#4 ·
#3 ·
I use them, swear by them, love them and risk all I have with them. They are awesome. Well put together. Easy to clean. Easy to inspect. They do last re-build after re-build. I have many with years and years on them. No leaks, no bad batches or recalls. They just keep working.
There is only one argument that I have heard that is actually reasonable and true. The dimmensions of the filters actually let a little larger particle through than some of the guys like to see. They want smaller mil's of filtration. I have yet to have a problem with this, and I have been running nothing but this on my stuff for about a decade or so. And even other peoples engines on the dyno, I spin theirs off and put on one of mine. Seen too many problems with standard spin on stuff. Just eliminate that by throwin on one of mine. I also use their inline stuff for dry sump and external stuff. (Sometimes even use the inline for incoming fuel.) Plus, I really like the owner. Cool guy!
 
#8 ·
What's the micron size of the Baldwin and what part number ? My engine is apart maybe I'll give one a shot.

I still can't remember a bad looking bearing with my System 1. I thought I had a picture of rod bearing but I couldn't find it.

S CP :D
 
#9 ·
Running a system 1 filter is as effective as filtering your oil with a screen door.
Those who actually know the difference will never use one again.
 
#34 ·
The Good, the bad and the ugly ?



I've always liked mine but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to learn and try something new.

After a season of running with the System 1 :







Good, bad or ugly ? I sent an email to the two guys who have seen my engine the most over 16 years for some feed back. I'll see what they think.

"Where the problem comes in is in other critical tolerances, such as the cam lobe to lifter, ring clearance to the cylinder wall, or the valve train components. These areas can be as small as 5 microns. These clearances are only the thickness of the lubricants between the metal components. Fully 60% of wear in an engine occurs in these areas as a result of contaminants that are larger than 5 microns, but too small for the 25 micron full flow filter to remove and hold out of the system."



Something to read:

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=how+big+is...//www.pecuniary.com/newsletters/microns2.html

Sleeper CP :D
 
#12 ·
Hmmmmmm......I am about to light off my new twin turbo deal in the next week or so and have a system 1 set up here that I was going to plumb in to my set up. You guys have me thinking twice now......

Travis
 
#20 · (Edited)
Shaun, there no problem removing the bypass so long as you remember a few things. Every drop of oil your motor needs has to pass through the filter media, and it better be up to the job. That means don't try to get away with a standard passenger car filter like ph8 fram extra gaurd, extended gaurd or any other filter trying to filter down to 20 microns. That means a K&N, Moroso Racing, Baldwin, or and I hate to say this, Fram HP series. All Fram filters now have a bypass in them, even the HP's. Probably to save the filter itself from idiots. If you can fit the long truck filter, do it. Absolutly do not try to get away with those stubbing ass short filters. AND DO NOT GET RACEY WHILE THE OIL IS COLD. The OIL Shaun, not the motor. I don't run a bypass, but then, I do run 2 K&Ns
http://www.power-21.com/FramPower21i/PartDetail.aspx?b=F&pn=HP4



 
#28 ·
Shaun, there no problem removing the bypass so long as you remember a few things. Every drop of oil your motor needs has to pass through the filter media, and it better be up to the job. That means don't try to get away with a standard passenger car filter like ph8 fram extra gaurd, extended gaurd or any other filter trying to filter down to 20 microns. That means a K&N, Moroso Racing, Baldwin, or and I hate to say this, Fram HP series. Probably I don't run a bypass, but then, I do run 2 K&Ns
Since Allied bought Fram, their filters are made in China, and they've gone straight to the crap pile...cheap filtering media, cardboard endcaps and plastic springs to name a few items.
I completely agree, I only had to cut open one K&N and my mind was made up.



 
#23 ·
Your Napa or Wix bypass is anywhere from 8-11. The baldwin is in the 18-20 range. Ther will be a presure drop over the median in the filter when its cold so a constant idle to warm up is best. Stay away from burping the throttle if you can while the engine temp get to operatiing temp.
 
#32 ·
With my last motor i ran wix filters (with no bypass), no bypass in the block, and a hivol pump. I never saw any problems when it came to oil pressure but it's not like i could watch it 24x7. Also my last motor i ran 12 quarts in the pan and it took a long time to get the oil temp up. This build i'm running 9 quarts in the pan, and my oil temp comes up quick and so far is staying around 180-210, also running a 10w30 oil. I have a 20w50 i think i'm going to run next oil change. The dyno showed i lost 10PSI accross the board when switching from 20w50 to the 10w30 and i think i would rather see that extra 10PSI. I'm going to run a filter with a bypass the next change, i want to see if maybe that was my problem with the oil pressure dipping off alittle bit at higher rpms.

I noticed that when i was on baldwins site earlier the first filter i came accross had a 30 PSID bypass, Tim's PN# shows a 20 PSID... So question is, higher or lower bypass setting :)
 
#39 ·
In the old days it (we) would hurt it so much it was nice to see what was going on. Now, allot older and a little smarter so maybe make a switch. The System 1 16 years ago was the only high performance filter w/out a by-pass if I re-call correctly and with running the oil cooler it takes a bit for the oil to warm up. So it was a good choice at the time.

S CP :D
 
#41 ·
No reason not to have a bypass. Millions of cars and boats run year after year with bypasses. Boaters, at least performance vdrivers, usually change their oil frequently. Racers, like GN7, change their oil every weekend.

Like GN7 said, the filter is not there to filter big chunks, because in that case you're already toast. The filter HELPS remove very small particles and dirt so that the service life of the oil is extended. It's a good strategy to continuously filter a "percentage" of the oil, and the bypass ensures the correct volume is available.
 
#46 ·
Well reason i asked was because i think were comparing apples to oranges here. Is the system1 filter suppose to be a stock or stock/HP replacement or is it suppose to be a racing type filter?

If the filters a racing filter then i think it's filtering is standard. If you take a look at the wix RACING filters they flow 28GPM, and there micron rating is 61. System ones site shows 3 filter types, a 30 micron, 45 micron and 75 micron and it looks like it's based on what weight oil you run. These filters flow 24 GPM.

So i think were talking shit here on a filter that is probably working just fine compared to any other "Racing" filter. A standard 51060 Wix filter flows 9-11 GPM with a micron rating of 21.
 
#47 ·
Well reason i asked was because i think were comparing apples to oranges here. Is the system1 filter suppose to be a stock or stock/HP replacement or is it suppose to be a racing type filter?

If the filters a racing filter then i think it's filtering is standard. If you take a look at the wix RACING filters they flow 28GPM, and there micron rating is 61. System ones site shows 3 filter types, a 30 micron, 45 micron and 75 micron and it looks like it's based on what weight oil you run. These filters flow 24 GPM.

So i think were talking shit here on a filter that is probably working just fine compared to any other "Racing" filter. A standard 51060 Wix filter flows 9-11 GPM with a micron rating of 21.
Racing type. My old ones are 45 Microns I was told by one of my engines builders that if I'm concerned I should replace the 45 Micron filter with the 30 if it available for my housing size.

S CP :D
 
#49 ·
Convert microns to inches, then figure what a 25 micron particle is going to do passing through a .0012" space (between the journal and bearing).
Also, every filter has a range of micron filtration..the advertised number is not an absolute filtration value...there are percentages involved. Do a little more research to get some more info. I think there was a lot of this discussed in the thread that was linked to earlier in this thread.
 
#50 ·
Convert microns to inches, then figure what a 25 micron particle is going to do passing through a .0012" space (between the journal and bearing).
Also, every filter has a range of micron filtration..the advertised number is not an absolute filtration value...there are percentages involved. Do a little more research to get some more info.
Who else makes racing filters? Lets compare a RACING filter. I'm not trying to say system one is good or bad, i've never used one. I do think though that were comparing a system one filter probably not ment to be used in a everyday driven deal, to somthing that is ment for that.
 
#52 ·
The filter i found claims 20GPM and says this "25 Micron No Restriction. Filters down to 5 micron particles. 90% more efficient than throw-away oil filters."

Why does it say 25 micron and then say it will filter down 5 micron?

Pretty good when comparing to the system one, You loose flow but gain filtering... Again i still think these filters are based on app. If you only need to flow between 12 and 20 GPM then that filter would be good. If you needed to flow more looks like system one is the next step or maybe sombody else's.

Also, system one is basing it's filtering on oil weight but nobody else is telling you what weight. With system one it looks like you can go as low as 30 microns for anything under 0-60w oil.

It's looking to me like the more flow you need the larger micron rating you get. :)bulb

Anybody know what i standard BBC oil pump flows GPM at say 6000 RPM?
 
#55 ·
It's looking to me like the more flow you need the larger micron rating you get. :)bulb

Anybody know what i standard BBC oil pump flows GPM at say 6000 RPM?
IU am looking, have not found it yet, in my manuals nor the net.

I HAVE FOUND the Ford Taurus SHO engine oil pump spec tho, useful IMO for ballpark figure.
12.1 GPM @ 43 psi at 6400 RPM crank, which, BTW, is the entire 5 quart oil sump every 10 seconds. The maximum oil pressure that the pump can develop is 57 psi +/-5 psi.
 
#59 ·
This is like debating the usefullness of a bilge pump...:)sphss


Frankly, that pic of the horses is right on the money. Hey, I'm a System1 fan on the fuel side, because they do not impede flow and catch particles large enough to foul up my pump or needle and seats. For oil? Nahh...

Now, I change oil after every weekend. The filter is just there because it might help, and with a bypass it sure cant hurt so why not?

A well made filter with a bypass somewhere in the loop, is so widely successful Newton should have thought of it.
 
#62 ·
GN,

I'm being to lazy to re-read every thing, what's the K&N Micron count ?

Sleeper CP :D
 
#63 ·
Don't hold me to it, but I believe it is 20 microns. There is way more to filters than micron ratings. LIKE FLOW! 5 sq. inches of media may have a rating of 20 microns, but won't flow for crap. It has to have enough media to flow the required gpm or it useless, and the bypass will open(block mounted or filter) or starve the engine. This why I say, that if you can, run the long truck filter or two filters if you remove the bypass. All of you have read the link at the top of the dyno boards regarding different filters, haven't you?
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy-updates.html



 
#69 ·
Sleeper CP, wix website doesnt show the micron rating for that filter, but there other racing filters ive seen have a 61 micron rating!

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51060R

You probably want the one with out the R.

The 51060 filter has a rating of 21 microns but is a short filter, they make a longer version of that, cant remember the PN though, it might be the 51794 (with out the R) you showed. The 51794 filter has a micron rating of 25. http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=51794

What i dont get, is that the short and long filtes flow the same amount 9-11 GPM. You'd thing the longer would flow more?
 
#71 ·
Sleeper CP, wix website doesnt show the micron rating for that filter, but there other racing filters ive seen have a 61 micron rating!

?
Thanks for the info Shaun :) That wouldn't be worth doing now would it. Thanks. I did notice that they didn't list the micron rating for the "R" filter.
I think Mike (Cyclone) mentioned he used a Baldwin Filter , I don't re-call that he listed a PN for it. :)bulb

I'll check the Moroso too, but if they come in at 25 microns I'll get the 30 micron screen door filter and be content about it. :)bulb

S CP :D
 
#72 · (Edited)
Sleeper CP, i asked him which part number he was using earlier in the thread, he never responded. The Wix filters i've been using (51060 and 51061, only difference being the anti drain back) have a 21 micron rating and a flow rate of 9-11GPM. Also those filters have no bypass

The filter that Tim (futs) showed above has a bypass built into it set at 20 PSID if i remember correctly. They didnt show flow numbers either i dont think, would have to look again. Baldwid's compare chart also had nothing in it's database when trying to compare it with a Wix racing filter.

There was another filter i had found at baldwin that had a higher bypass setting, it was around 30 PSID, i cant seam to find it anymore. I'm not sure if a higher bypass would be better to have or worse. I would think it would be better in that it would help force oil to filter... rather than bypass. But then again at idle if your under 30 PSI of oil pressure when hot maybe that could be a killer if the filter plugged or crapped out?


Sleeper, also, baldwin doesnt show there flow or filter micron size for the filter tim lifted. I'm curious what those numbers are!

http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/PartSpecification.asp?URL=PartEntry.asp&partnumber=B279
 
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