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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
One President thought so.:))THumbsUp
Why taxes can be patriotic - CNN.com

Seems a little different than the "I don't want to pay tax and cut every program that doesn't personally benifit me" ideology of the Tea Party doesn't it? Lets look at this: When the idea that paying taxes was patriotic, America was just beginning its time of being the leader of the world. While the current Tea Party ideology is gaining popularity, you can make the argument that America's time in the world's drivers seat is coming to an end. Coincidence?
 

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IMO I think the Tea Party's biggest concern is all of the wasteful spending that occurs with our tax money. Of course when politicians start screaming about making cuts they always talk Police fire and Schools....because that strikes a nerve with the public that bolsters the liberal position...when in reality cuts can and should be made in many other areas prior to thwe above metentioned areas. A perfect example is in Arizona. In 2006 when cash was rolling in....Napolitan pushed for and acheived "all day kindergarten"....now that there is no dough for the program....libs scream about cutting our kids education....when it was never about educating 5 years olds.....it was about free day care.
 

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You know RAMBUT. I pay right at 50 % in taxes on my wages. That is just fed, state and SS. That does not include all of the other taxes I pay for the honor of being self employed. I feel that is a bit much. Do you know if I get hurt there is no welfare for me. If I get hurt there is no state disability for me. If I lose my business no unemployment. No food stamps for me or any other Goberment aid that a wetback or any of these others POS that come here that never worked a day here in the states can get. What is wrong with that picture.
 

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Good article. Think of it this way. It is considered patriotic to join the military and go fight a war supposedly for the overall benefit of our nation. So why would it not be patriotic to pay taxes to fight that war and fund other things deemed by our leaders for the overall benefit of the nation??
So yes, paying taxes is in fact a patriotic activity. Teabaggers who claim to be "Patriots" do not want to pay so much. They need to quit claiming to be 'Patriots'. "Tax Cheapskates" is a better term.
 

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One President thought so.:))THumbsUp
Why taxes can be patriotic - CNN.com

Seems a little different than the "I don't want to pay tax and cut every program that doesn't personally benifit me" ideology of the Tea Party doesn't it? Lets look at this: When the idea that paying taxes was patriotic, America was just beginning its time of being the leader of the world. While the current Tea Party ideology is gaining popularity, you can make the argument that America's time in the world's drivers seat is coming to an end. Coincidence?
I wish I had the 30 seconds of my life back that was spent reading your drivel... :)st


Total spending
A pie chart representing spending by category for the US budget for 2010[citation needed]Further information: Government spending
The President's budget request for 2010 totals $3.55 trillion. Percentages in parentheses indicate percentage change compared to 2009. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:[8]

Mandatory spending: $2.009 trillion (-20.1%)
$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (−15.2%) – Other mandatory programs
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt
$11 billion (+275%) – Potential disaster costs
$0 billion (−100%) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%) – Financial stabilization efforts

US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.Discretionary spending: $1.368 trillion (+13.1%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%) – National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) – Other Agencies
$105 billion – Other
 

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Off Topic!!

You know RAMBUT. I pay right at 50 % in taxes on my wages. That is just fed, state and SS. That does not include all of the other taxes I pay for the honor of being self employed. I feel that is a bit much. Do you know if I get hurt there is no welfare for me. If I get hurt there is no state disability for me. If I lose my business no unemployment. No food stamps for me or any other Goberment aid that a wetback or any of these others POS that come here that never worked a day here in the states can get. What is wrong with that picture.

Who ever told you NOT to shave Butt Hair? :)sphss:shock:
 

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Marine Organism
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Notice the unionite unemployed school boy :) and the other employed by tax dollars :)hand are the only ones to post in agreement. LMAO!!!

There's still time though. Get with your cronies.
 

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That does not include all of the other taxes I pay for the honor of being self employed. Do you know if I get hurt there is no welfare for me. If I get hurt there is no state disability for me. If I lose my business no unemployment.

Seems you made that choice when you decided to go into Business for yourself. Otherwise maybe you should get a job working for someone else and then it would not be a problem. I was in the Marine industry for almost 20 years, and all I ever heard from most of the owners was poor me, I pay all those taxes and can barely keep my business open; Then they take off in their twin engine airplane for a couple weeks in Havasu and staying in their second home and play with their big expensive boat, or cruiser around town in their high dollar hotrods, or buy some lavish motor home to tow their just as lavish toy hauler that houses more toys. I have never met anyone who owns a business say they are making money, they all claim they are just keeping their head above water. And don’t point to the current times, everyone is struggling so don’t feel like the Lone ranger. I saw lots of people who owned construction companies coming in with lots of cash in the early/mid 2000’s to purchase new boats when they should have been saving some of it for lean times. As for taxes, you will also pay more, it comes with the territory. When you start a business you take on risk. That includes the possibility of the business failing. It happens, just about anybody can start a business and make money in good times, it’s when things get tuff you see who was the smart one and who spent all their money thinking it was never going to end. If there was no risk and you paid less or no taxes then everyone would want to start their own company, but that’s not how it works. So again, if you don’t like it, close the business and go to work for someone else, don’t bitch about it, you made the choice.
 

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Marine Organism
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One President thought so.:))THumbsUp
Why taxes can be patriotic - CNN.com

Seems a little different than the "I don't want to pay tax and cut every program that doesn't personally benifit me" ideology of the Tea Party doesn't it? Lets look at this: When the idea that paying taxes was patriotic, America was just beginning its time of being the leader of the world. While the current Tea Party ideology is gaining popularity, you can make the argument that America's time in the world's drivers seat is coming to an end. Coincidence?
Is that what they are for? No taxes? I thought "TEA" was an acronym for "Taxed Enough Already", not "we don't want to pay any taxes".

Good try I guess. Typical lib, making up things as we go. :)hand

And the libs love FDR. After all he is only second to Bobo being responsible to government growth. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
You know RAMBUT. I pay right at 50 % in taxes on my wages. That is just fed, state and SS. That does not include all of the other taxes I pay for the honor of being self employed. I feel that is a bit much.
Before I went back to school, I was only taking home half of my paycheck also, so high tax rates are not just paid by business owners. What are your thoughts on the idea from the article: in a country like America, nobody got rich on his own. The wealthy prospered not only because of their own efforts, but because they were protected by the government and the legal system and could draw on an educated workforce? I think there is a lot of merit to this idea. Surely you agree that living in America has given you opportunities for success that you would not have enjoyed if you had not lived here. The mere fact that you even earn the income you do is directly dependant upon having the freedoms you have here in America. That is one of the reasons I don't see a problem with higher tax rates for people that earn more. I always saw paying taxes as the price I had to pay for the opportunities that I had, and knew that paying taxes helped ensure that the opportunities I had would continue to be there.
Do you know if I get hurt there is no welfare for me. If I get hurt there is no state disability for me. If I lose my business no unemployment. No food stamps for me or any other Goberment aid that a wetback or any of these others POS that come here that never worked a day here in the states can get. What is wrong with that picture.
You would be eligible for all these benefits if you were a salaried employee on your companies payroll, wouldn't you? I don't think most Americans approve of wetbacks and people that never worked here getting the free benefits offered in this country. I know I don't.:mad: Unfortunately, our government officials (from both parties) do not seem to worried about the drain that non productive immigrants have on our society. Maybe if the government refused to support the nonproductive immigrants they would stop coming here. :|err
 

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Marine Organism
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Before I went back to school, I was only taking home half of my paycheck also
To taxes only? How much in union dues? :D

I don't think most Americans approve of wetbacks and people that never worked here getting the free benefits offered in this country. I know I don't.:mad: Unfortunately, our government officials (from both parties) do not seem to worried about the drain that non productive immigrants have on our society. Maybe if the government refused to support the nonproductive immigrants they would stop coming here. :|err
It's not only illegals (being PC here :)hand )but generations of peeps "trapped" (they really don't want out either) in the system that are just plain lazy.

I agree on that last thought. You are dead on with that one!!!! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
To taxes only? How much in union dues? :D
Yes, from taxes only on my hourly wages. Only about 55% of my total compensation package was on my paycheck. I never saw the rest (the money for pension, medical, vacation, supplemental dues). Anything not on my check was paid directly from the employer to the union. Supplemental dues was $1.25 an hour and I also have to pay regular dues that is $320 a year that comes out of my pocket.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It's not only illegals (being PC here :)hand )but generations of peeps "trapped" (they really don't want out either) in the system that are just plain lazy.
I think welfare needs to be reformed, and this is how I would reform it: I've always thought it would be a good idea if there were government work camps for people on welfare, kind of like the company towns from years ago. These people could do manual labor, maintenance of public facilities, etc. The would be provided some basic housing, meals, clothes, and medical. Maybe even pay them a small wage like $1 an hour. The women would be put on mandatory birth control. There would be programs at night for basic education and job training and people would be free to walk away from the program anytime they wanted. But they would not get shit if they were not in the program and didn't work, of course I am only talking about the people physically able to work. Hell, the government could even contract with private businesses that needed unskilled labor to provide welfare workers. I know it wont happen, but I always thought it would be a good idea.
 

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Marine Organism
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Yea, good ideas aren't always accepted with open arms.

Like drug testing welfare or SSI recipients. ;)
 

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Yes, from taxes only on my hourly wages. Only about 55% of my total compensation package was on my paycheck. I never saw the rest (the money for pension, medical, vacation, supplemental dues). Anything not on my check was paid directly from the employer to the union. Supplemental dues was $1.25 an hour and I also have to pay regular dues that is $320 a year that comes out of my pocket.
You do realize that pension, medical insurance, paying for extra vacation, and paying of dues are all considered taxable income as they aren't required. Paying into a pension plan is still your income and you can take it back out. Paying for extra vacation time is also an optional payment as is membership dues. Medical insurance premiums are also optional so you don't have to pay that either. But, odds are you don't even pay all of the cost of the medical insurance as the company probably pays a part of that as well. So paying bills from your pay check before you get the check doesn't count as you pay 50% of you income in taxes. If it does, then I must pay over 75% taxes as my bills come out in allotments before I get my check.

The TEA party is about fiscal responsibility and using the taxes that are already paid properly. I've never read or heard anything that says they don't support doing their part and paying their FAIR share of the taxes. It's a sad state of the Union when the business which has grown the most in any given year is government. And that is what more than just the TEA party is complaining about.

On the subject of Taxes, why should government employees, paid with tax dollars, pay income tax on their wages. Why not make their government wages tax exempt and just not pay that percentage, normally paid back out in taxes, to them? Every time money changes hands it costs, so think how much money we can save by not taxing these employees on their wages and then having to turn around and collect almost half of it back again.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
You do realize that pension, medical insurance, paying for extra vacation, and paying of dues are all considered taxable income as they aren't required. Paying into a pension plan is still your income and you can take it back out. Paying for extra vacation time is also an optional payment as is membership dues. Medical insurance premiums are also optional so you don't have to pay that either. But, odds are you don't even pay all of the cost of the medical insurance as the company probably pays a part of that as well. So paying bills from your pay check before you get the check doesn't count as you pay 50% of you income in taxes. If it does, then I must pay over 75% taxes as my bills come out in allotments before I get my check.

The TEA party is about fiscal responsibility and using the taxes that are already paid properly. I've never read or heard anything that says they don't support doing their part and paying their FAIR share of the taxes. It's a sad state of the Union when the business which has grown the most in any given year is government. And that is what more than just the TEA party is complaining about.

On the subject of Taxes, why should government employees, paid with tax dollars, pay income tax on their wages. Why not make their government wages tax exempt and just not pay that percentage, normally paid back out in taxes, to them? Every time money changes hands it costs, so think how much money we can save by not taxing these employees on their wages and then having to turn around and collect almost half of it back again.
The dues is taxed and the vacation is taxed, but the pension and medical is not taxed. The pension will be taxed when I start recieving pension payments. The price for medical is about $9 an hour and that is from my total compensation package. The company does not pay any more than that. Keep in mind the compensation package is about $65 an hour. The tax withheld on my check was just for hourly wages + $2.75 per hour for vacation and dues. I am not taxed on anything else. At the end of the year, I can write off my union dues as a business expense. And yes, I generally took home half of what I earned (calculated by my hourly wage * how many hours I worked), with the other half being withheld for taxes. I would work 60+ hours a week, so I was usually in the higher tax brackets.

As far as the Tea Party and taxes, every Tea Party person I have talked to wanted to cut taxes. Look at the big stink when Obama wanted to raise the taxes on the top 1% of Americans. These are people that make on average $1.4 million a year. And Obama only wanted to raise taxes 3% on these people. He wanted to cut taxes or leave them where they are for the other 99% of Americans. The Tea Party didn't support that. If the Tea Party was for fiscal responsibility, they would support massive cuts to defense and social security. They always talk about cutting uneccessary federal agencies. How about Homeland security? How about making drugs legal and then we can cut the DEA. Why don't we cut all federal subsidies? This won't ever happen. You want to know why? Because whether we are talking about obscure federal agencies, defense spending, or federal subsidies, they are all forms of federal welfare to keep Americans employed.

The reason government has grown quicker than the private sector lately is that the private sector has been shedding jobs for the last few years and the massive hiring for homeland security over the last decade. Think about what would happen if the government was cut drastically right now. How many would be out of work? Now think of the effect that would have on the economy. We would go right back into recession and unemployment would double. If you doubt that would happen, just look at the UK. They have made massive cuts recently, and the end result was a falling GDP and rising unemployment. Keynes had it right: you spend whatever it takes in a recession to get the economy going again, and then you pay down the debt after the economy has recovered.
 

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The dues is taxed and the vacation is taxed, but the pension and medical is not taxed. The pension will be taxed when I start recieving pension payments. The price for medical is about $9 an hour and that is from my total compensation package. The company does not pay any more than that. Keep in mind the compensation package is about $65 an hour. The tax withheld on my check was just for hourly wages + $2.75 per hour for vacation and dues. I am not taxed on anything else. At the end of the year, I can write off my union dues as a business expense. And yes, I generally took home half of what I earned (calculated by my hourly wage * how many hours I worked), with the other half being withheld for taxes. I would work 60+ hours a week, so I was usually in the higher tax brackets.

As far as the Tea Party and taxes, every Tea Party person I have talked to wanted to cut taxes. Look at the big stink when Obama wanted to raise the taxes on the top 1% of Americans. These are people that make on average $1.4 million a year. And Obama only wanted to raise taxes 3% on these people. He wanted to cut taxes or leave them where they are for the other 99% of Americans. The Tea Party didn't support that. If the Tea Party was for fiscal responsibility, they would support massive cuts to defense and social security. They always talk about cutting uneccessary federal agencies. How about Homeland security? How about making drugs legal and then we can cut the DEA. Why don't we cut all federal subsidies? This won't ever happen. You want to know why? Because whether we are talking about obscure federal agencies, defense spending, or federal subsidies, they are all forms of federal welfare to keep Americans employed.

The reason government has grown quicker than the private sector lately is that the private sector has been shedding jobs for the last few years and the massive hiring for homeland security over the last decade. Think about what would happen if the government was cut drastically right now. How many would be out of work? Now think of the effect that would have on the economy. We would go right back into recession and unemployment would double. If you doubt that would happen, just look at the UK. They have made massive cuts recently, and the end result was a falling GDP and rising unemployment. Keynes had it right: you spend whatever it takes in a recession to get the economy going again, and then you pay down the debt after the economy has recovered.
Yes medical and pension are tax exempt and tax deferred respectively. The amount paid into them is still Income regardless of how you label it. Had you chose not to have that compensation package, you would be making that money in income. And the other two should be factored into your total income as it is money you've earned, again regardless of what you want to call it.

The TEA party is about equal and fair taxation. It isn't fair to raise someone's taxes an extra 3% just because they make more. If you want taxation to be really fair they should go to either a flat tax or a national sales tax and do away with income tax.

As for the Gov't growing, the current administration has swelled every "social" program, and the only reason Homeland Security is growing the way it is, is because President Obama has stated he wants a Homeland Defense force that is equal in size and strength to the military. He hasn't said what he wants to do with them, but that is what he wants. You then state that big gov't is good for the economy, but yet you want to down size the military. Re-read history. How many Depressions/recessions have occurred following the termination of a war? War while not fun, is undeniably the best gov't stimulus of the economy. Between all the consumables and the equipment we spend a ton of US dollars back in the US to support the war efforts. This doesn't even consider the number of Reservists and Guardsmen that have jobs while deployed that would have been unemployed back home. And while they are over fighting, their families are back home spending that extra income. There is plenty of room to cut in the gov't over staffing without shutting down the gov't or ruining the GDP.
 

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Yes medical and pension are tax exempt and tax deferred respectively. The amount paid into them is still Income regardless of how you label it. Had you chose not to have that compensation package, you would be making that money in income. And the other two should be factored into your total income as it is money you've earned, again regardless of what you want to call it.

The TEA party is about equal and fair taxation. It isn't fair to raise someone's taxes an extra 3% just because they make more. If you want taxation to be really fair they should go to either a flat tax or a national sales tax and do away with income tax.

As for the Gov't growing, the current administration has swelled every "social" program, and the only reason Homeland Security is growing the way it is, is because President Obama has stated he wants a Homeland Defense force that is equal in size and strength to the military. He hasn't said what he wants to do with them, but that is what he wants. You then state that big gov't is good for the economy, but yet you want to down size the military. Re-read history. How many Depressions/recessions have occurred following the termination of a war? War while not fun, is undeniably the best gov't stimulus of the economy. Between all the consumables and the equipment we spend a ton of US dollars back in the US to support the war efforts. This doesn't even consider the number of Reservists and Guardsmen that have jobs while deployed that would have been unemployed back home. And while they are over fighting, their families are back home spending that extra income. There is plenty of room to cut in the gov't over staffing without shutting down the gov't or ruining the GDP.
Sir, with all due respect I think you would have better luck doing this but I wish you the best:

 
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