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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A long read but worth it.

Subject: Are you willing to die to take MY gun? Please forward...

This man has put down on paper what many people are thinking but are too cautious to express openly.
I hope it never comes to what he is advocating but I can certainly see where the possibility exists.
God help us all if it ever does happen.



PS Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the author:
Dean Garrison (born 1955) is a contemporary American author and crime fiction novelist. He was born in Michigan , grew up in the Indiana , Illinois , and Texas , and received his B.A. degree from Ferris State University in Big Rapids, Michigan . Garrison is a Crime Scene Technician in West Michigan . His research in the fields of crime scene investigation and Shooting Reconstruction are widely published in forensic journals under the name "D.H. Garrison, Jr."




Subject: If They Come for Your Guns, Do You Have a Responsibility to Fight?
Posted on January 3, 2013 by Dean Garrison






I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don't think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.


About a month ago I let the "democracy" word slip in a discussion with a fellow blogger. I know better. Americans have been conditioned to use this term. It's not an accurate term and it never has been a correct term to describe our form of government. The truth is that the United States of America is a constitutional republic. This is similar to a democracy because our representatives are selected by democratic elections, but ultimately our representatives are required to work within the framework of our constitution. In other words, even if 90% of Americans want something that goes against our founding principles, they have no right to call for a violation of constitutional rights.


If you are religious you might choose to think of it this way. Say that members of your congregation decide that mass fornication is a good thing. Do they have the right to change the teachings of your God? The truth is the truth. It doesn't matter how many people try to stray from it. Did I just compare our founders to God? In a way I did, but please note that I am not trying to insult anyone. For the purpose of the American Government our constitution and founders who wrote it are much like God is to believers. It is the law. It is indisputable.

Our founders did not want a "democracy" for they feared a true democracy was just as dangerous as a monarchy. The founders were highly educated people who were experienced in defending themselves against tyranny. They understood that the constitution could protect the people by limiting the power of anyone to work outside of it much better than a pure system of popularity. A system of checks and balances was set up to help limit corruption of government and also the potential for an "immoral majority" developing within the American People . We have forgotten in this country that we are ultimately ruled by a constitution .

Why is a democracy potentially just as dangerous as a monarchy? Let's look at something that Benjamin Franklin said because it answers that question more fully and succinctly than I can.


Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. -Benjamin Franklin

Even 230+ years ago our founders were perceptive enough to realize that democracy was a dangerous form of government. How so? Because the citizens of a country can become just as corrupt as any government. We have seen evidence of this throughout history. Ask Native Americans and African-Americans if this population can become corrupt.

I think in 2012 we are seeing evidence of what Franklin was trying to tell us. Just because a majority of people may support certain ideas it does not mean that those ideas are just. In simple terms, just because most Americans love our president and voted for him, it does not mean that he has the power to go against our constitutional rights.

Next I'd like to review the text of the second amendment. It is very clear. This is the law of this land. So when Senator Feinstein or President Obama talk about taking your guns, you need to think about something. Are they honoring their sworn oath to uphold the constitution?


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State , the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

This is a pretty clear statement. The fact is that it took 232 years for the Supreme Court to even rule on this amendment because it has never been successfully challenged. In 2008 a case of Columbia v. Heller the Supreme Court ruled that a handgun ban in Washington D.C. was unconstitutional. One also has to take this into consideration. The Supreme Court supports your right to own guns. If you want to research this decision further you can start here.

For those who try to debate the spirit of the 2nd amendment, they are truly no different from people who will try to take Biblical quotes out of context to try to support their immoral decisions. The founders were very clear on the intent of the 2nd amendment. Let me share a few quick quotes here:


"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence . From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good." -George Washington

"The Constitution shall never be construed..to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." -Samuel Adams


I could find hundreds of quotes like these. This country was built on the right to bear arms. It was built on the rights of an individual to bear arms, regardless of what his government or neighbor happened to think . This is crystal clear. Ironically the people who voice their opinions against this right have their free speech protected by your guns. Without guns in this country, all other amendments become null and void, simply because "We the People" will lose our power of enforcement.


We need to keep this in mind as our "representatives" try to push gun bans. I don't care if 99% of people are in support of gun bans (which is far from the case), it is a violation of our constitutional rights, plain and simple.

A constitutional republic protects the rights of the individual even when their ideas are very much in the minority. If I were the only person in America who believed in the 2nd amendment, I would still be within my rights to call upon it. You would all think I was insane and possibly celebrate if I was gunned down, but in the end I would be the only true American among us.

Our framers were very clear on this. If my government comes to take my guns, they are violating one of my constitutional rights that is covered by the 2nd amendment.



It is not my right, at that point, It's my responsibility to respond in the name of liberty. What I am telling you is something that many are trying to soft sell, and many others have tried to avoid putting into print, but I am going to say it. The time for speaking in code is over.



If they come for our guns then it is our constitutional right to put them six feet under. You have the right to kill any representative of this government who tries to tread on your liberty. I am thinking about self-defense and not talking about inciting a revolution. Re-read Jefferson 's quote. He talks about a "last resort." I am not trying to start a Revolt, I am talking about self-defense. If the day for Revolution comes, when no peaceful options exist, we may have to talk about that as well. None of us wants to think about that, but please understand that a majority cannot take away your rights as an American citizen. Only you can choose to give up your rights .



Congress could pass gun ban legislation by a 90%+ margin and it just would not matter. I think some people are very unclear on this. This is the reason we have a Supreme Court, and though I do not doubt that the Supreme Court can also become corrupt, in 2008 they got it right. They supported the constitution. It does not matter what the majority supports because America is not a democracy. A constitutional republic protects the rights of every single citizen, no matter what their "elected servants" say. A majority in America only matters when the constitution is not in play.

I just wrote what every believer in the consttution wants to say, and what every constitutional blogger needs to write. The truth of the matter is that this type of speech is viewed as dangerous and radical or subversive, and it could gain me a world of trouble that I do not want. It is also the truth. To make myself clear I will tell you again. If they come for your guns it is your right to use those guns against them and to kill them. You are protected by our constitution.


And by US Supreme Ct. decisions, (John Bad-Elk v United States, 1900)

Most of the articles I am reading on the subject are trying to give you clues without just coming out and saying it. I understand that because certain things in this country will get you on a list that you don't want to be on. I may well be on that list. This blog is small and growing so I may not be there yet, but I have dreams. I also have my own list of subversives and anyone who attempts to deny my constitutional rights is on that list.

I am not the "subversive" here, it is the political representatives who are threatening to take away my inalienable rights. If they come to take my guns and I leave a few of them wounded or dead, and I somehow survive, I have zero doubt that I will spend a long time in prison and may face an execution. But I would much rather be a political prisoner than a slave.

If I go down fighting then I was not fighting to harm these human beings. I was simply defending my liberty and yours. It is self-defense and it is what our country was built on. We won our freedom in self-defense. We would not be ruled by a tyrannical government in the 1770's and we will not be ruled in 2012 by a tyrannical government. There is no difference.

This is a case of right and wrong. As of now the 2nd amendment stands. It has never been repealed. If Feinstein or Barack have a problem with the constitution then they should be removed from office. They are not defending the constitution which they have sworn an oath to protect. It is treasonous to say the least. They would likely say the same about me, but I have the constitution, the founders, and the supreme court on my side. They only have their inflated egos .

I am not writing this to incite people. I am writing this in hopes that somehow I can make a tiny difference. I have no idea how many of my neighbors have the will to defend their constitutional rights. 2%? 20%? I am afraid that 20% is a high number, unfortunately. When push comes to shove many people may give up and submit to being ruled. I believe that our government is banking on this.

What I do know is that this country was founded by people who had balls the size of Texas and Patriotic Americans take shit off of no one, especially our own government. For evidence of that, you might research the Revolutionary War. My question is how many Patriots are left?

I would hope that our officials come to realize that, regardless of our numbers, we still exist because they are calling Patriotic Americans to action. They are making us decide if we want to die free or submit to their rule. I cannot tell you where you should stand on that. I do know that it may make the difference between living a life of freedom or slavery.



You must start thinking about this because I believe that the day is coming soon and I personally believe it has already been planned. Not all conspiracy theories are hogwash. They may throw down the gauntlet soon and my suggestion is that you prepare yourself to react.



I mean no disrespect to our elected officials but they need to understand that "We the People" will not be disarmed. If they proceed then it is they that are provoking us and we will act accordingly . We are within our rights to do so.

For those who are in support of taking the guns, you need to ask yourself a very important question, and I am not just talking about the politicians, because if you support them, you have chosen your side.
 

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Excellent post Rayzor!

My question is this:
Who will be sent to collect the firearms from those who don't voluntarily give them up? Police, Sheriffs, DPS, DHS, all military personnel and every form of law enforcement in America take a clear and distinct oath to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies. That's the second amendment they are protecting and defending so it looks like they'll have to pass on that assignment - based upon their oath of office.

Feinstein and the Kenyan along with all the other law-makers who are currently threatening to circumvent the second amendment should be held accountable for their actions against our country. It's really that simple.
 

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I have been reluctant to discuss a certain situation for lack of being present when this happened , here go's , my friend has a brother in law who back in november went up to national forest land to target shoot , he was approached by NF law enforcement . He was searching for illegal weapons . The guns being fired were a 9mm rifle , a 9mm pistol , and a m1 carbine 30 cal , these guns were seized due to them not having the so called ( ca mag drop button ) and the LEO wrote dude a TICKET with 3 felony cites on it . One per gun . I have seen the ticket personally but dont remember the codes ! Heres were it gets interesting ! He is scared shitless due to the severity of the charges , he has called every courthouse , county , state , and federal in the eldorado co , sacramento area , even the local DA's office , knowone has a record of the citation and any clue how to fight the citation ! Knowone has an idea of where the weapons are at either ! Ive told him to seek legal representation but he feels he cant afford the fight and is nervous about opening up a can o worms ! Did he have the right to tell LEO to fock off and beat it ? I live in a small town and this is not the first time ive heard things about the LEO involved in this ! Word travels fast , but once again , i wasnt there in all cases
 

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x2 thanks, clears that issue up quite well. Guess I better stop buying boat parts and start buying real guns. I don't think my 12ga. shot gun is gonna getter done.
 

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That was a great post,and tells it just as it really is,was, and will be.It is our RIGHT to take up arms AGAINST those who threaten our 2nd amendment RIGHT. Also YES ALL REPRESENTATIVES of our government who threaten it should be held accountable for that action against us. They took an oath to uphold and defend our Constitution of all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.Which means they should be RUN OUT of office.PLAIN AND SIMPLE...................:|err
 

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I'll tell it like this. Any one and I mean ANYONE come to get my guns then they have given up their citizenship and no longer defend my country or its constitution. At that point they have become my country's enemy and I will kill with out hesitation or remorse. May be heartless but I WILL DIE A FREE MAN, from old age or a bullet, no one lives forever.

I can't believe so many people support a government that has forgotten how many men and women have given their lives in defending this country and its constitution. They should be proud, their actions is nothing more than a slap in the face to our service men and women. I don' know how they can look at themselves in the mirror. To me they are as much a traitor as that piece of shit for a president they elected.

And If they don't like my comment they can go fuck themselves. This old mother fucker is an American in every sense of the word.

Rant Over:|err
 

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I know all my neighbors and I, have talked about this a few weeks back. That was about 20 guys,
cops, x military, and some others. We live in quiet horse owner neighbor hood, not to many homes. But I know we all have each others back. When that day comes, will not go down, with us being slaves to this POS government. They will be very surprised. We are very prepared and have a plan. I am sure we are not the only neighbor hood like that.
 

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Every so often Rayzor, you amaze me. That is an EXCELLANT post, and it is DEAD ON!
Far too many people believe that if the ogvernment passes a law that it is a LEGAL law. Not necessarily. Even if the Supreme Court backs up the law, if in fact it violates the Bill of Rights, which cannot be abridged or have ANY laws written against it. It would still be an ILLEGAL LAW.
The founding fathers even went so far, specially Jmaes Madison who penned the Bill of Rights, to keep the Constituition and the Bill of Rights short and to the point(unlike Obama care and the tax code) so that the average uneducated, non law degree American could FULLY understand it. Its the lawyers and so called "self proclaimed lawyers" that have a hard time understanding it, or try to concvince you it says something it clearly DOES NOT!

Ask snoc. He will tell you that if Obama writes a E.O., and Holder backs it, ITS LAW! Period.
Its scares the piss out of me to think that military and X military think this way considering it was their SWORN duty to protect the very document way too many will ignorantly violate because a tyranntical CIC orders them to. Scary shit!

Thanks again Rayzor, and thanks to the ballsy author of one of the very few CURRENT writings I have read on the TRUE definition of our government, the TRUE obligation of our military, and the TRUE rights of the poeple.
Lets just hope that more and more people become aware of the threat to our RIGHTS as given to us by our founding fathers that so many are willing to take away.
They ALL need to realize that without this ONE RIGHT, all the others are indefensable.

I personally blame the schools, and even more improtantly, OUR MILITARY for not FULLY expaining to each and every soldiers EXACTLY what it is he is swearing to uphold. Basic traninig needs to include a class on the constitution in basic training. A course written by the formost recognized constitutional lawyers in the country!! So that when the time comes that the military is asked t carry out an order, the AVERAGE troop KNOWS what is LEGAL, and what is not. Don't hold your breath expecting the government to educate you or the military on what the constitution not only says about your rights, but about your OBLIGATION.

It embrassing and scary to think that our military along with the police, are willing to turn on its people, simply because a tyranntical potus and his AG call for it, for no other reason than pure ignorance of the LAW!

Don't even get me started on ILLEGAL violations of the 5th and 6th amendments and drone strikes carried out by the U.S. military on American citizens on American soil OR ABROAD!!!



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I have been reluctant to discuss a certain situation for lack of being present when this happened , here go's , my friend has a brother in law who back in november went up to national forest land to target shoot , he was approached by NF law enforcement . He was searching for illegal weapons . The guns being fired were a 9mm rifle , a 9mm pistol , and a m1 carbine 30 cal , these guns were seized due to them not having the so called ( ca mag drop button ) and the LEO wrote dude a TICKET with 3 felony cites on it . One per gun . I have seen the ticket personally but dont remember the codes ! Heres were it gets interesting ! He is scared shitless due to the severity of the charges , he has called every courthouse , county , state , and federal in the eldorado co , sacramento area , even the local DA's office , knowone has a record of the citation and any clue how to fight the citation ! Knowone has an idea of where the weapons are at either ! Ive told him to seek legal representation but he feels he cant afford the fight and is nervous about opening up a can o worms ! Did he have the right to tell LEO to fock off and beat it ? I live in a small town and this is not the first time ive heard things about the LEO involved in this ! Word travels fast , but once again , i wasnt there in all cases
He needs to use the calguns foundation but he's probably screwed. No fixed magazine (bullet button is the current get around) on the rifles without a featureless build is bad news. 9mm pistol shouldn't need a fixed magazine
 

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I have been reluctant to discuss a certain situation for lack of being present when this happened , here go's , my friend has a brother in law who back in november went up to national forest land to target shoot , he was approached by NF law enforcement . He was searching for illegal weapons . The guns being fired were a 9mm rifle , a 9mm pistol , and a m1 carbine 30 cal , these guns were seized due to them not having the so called ( ca mag drop button ) and the LEO wrote dude a TICKET with 3 felony cites on it . One per gun . I have seen the ticket personally but dont remember the codes ! Heres were it gets interesting ! He is scared shitless due to the severity of the charges , he has called every courthouse , county , state , and federal in the eldorado co , sacramento area , even the local DA's office , knowone has a record of the citation and any clue how to fight the citation ! Knowone has an idea of where the weapons are at either ! Ive told him to seek legal representation but he feels he cant afford the fight and is nervous about opening up a can o worms ! Did he have the right to tell LEO to fock off and beat it ? I live in a small town and this is not the first time ive heard things about the LEO involved in this ! Word travels fast , but once again , i wasnt there in all cases
You must be talking about that Prick Officer Ken. He is a PRICK. People I know have a scanner and heard him call in once wanting to run the numbers of a log splitter. What a Phucking Joke this guy is. He is just about on the way out. He oversteps his bound on every contact he makes. Can't wait till they hang him by the BALLS.
 

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You must be talking about that Prick Officer Ken. He is a PRICK. People I know have a scanner and heard him call in once wanting to run the numbers of a log splitter. What a Phucking Joke this guy is. He is just about on the way out. He oversteps his bound on every contact he makes. Can't wait till they hang him by the BALLS.
Officer Ken Markus,

Like this guy?

My brush with the law....it's finally over (long post) - Calguns.net

He should contact the calguns foundation asap.
 

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Thats exactly whom i am referring to ! Didnt know he has touched so many !Mr LEO needs to mind his ethics ! Last time i checked there is ALL kinds of justice in this world
 

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I have been reluctant to discuss a certain situation for lack of being present when this happened , here go's , my friend has a brother in law who back in november went up to national forest land to target shoot , he was approached by NF law enforcement . He was searching for illegal weapons . The guns being fired were a 9mm rifle , a 9mm pistol , and a m1 carbine 30 cal , these guns were seized due to them not having the so called ( ca mag drop button ) and the LEO wrote dude a TICKET with 3 felony cites on it .
This is one of my favorite firearms of all time to hold an argument with regarding todays "assult rifles". The M1 carbine was the assualt weapon of the 40s. It was very instrumental in the WWII victory. It was the most issued long gun in WWII buy far.
I bought 3 of them in the mid 60s, all war surplus, all brand new, for around 25.00 a piece, mail order delievered to my door. How and why? Because back then, surplus war materials, including long guns and pistols were consider OURS. We paid for them. The government THEN was somewhat obligated to give us first choice at purchasing them back at or near the cost of production. NOBODY considered it selling a WAR DESIGN WEAPON back then. It was simply a surplus weapon and sold BACK to the original purchaser, US!!
Anyobdy really think they were bought and sold as a hunting rifle? Anything they were looked at as a MASS MURDER WEAPON? FUCK NO!
Millions of M1s were sold to the public after WWII, of over 20 years after. They made that many. Underwood typewriter made them, General Motors made them under Saginaw and Inland names. Winchester, Remington, all made them.

NOW, its an assault weapon? Give me a fucking break.

BTW, just to give you an idea how much this country has lost its mind, the piston mechanism in the M1 was invented in prison by a guy named Marshall Willaims serving a 30 year prison term for second degree murder, but they let him develope a auto load rifle while he was in their. Imagine that. Imagine WWII without it.
They are STILL inproduction and issued to the military in the Philippines and other small countries.



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Every so often Rayzor, you amaze me. That is an EXCELLANT post, and it is DEAD ON!
Far too many people believe that if the ogvernment passes a law that it is a LEGAL law. Not necessarily. Even if the Supreme Court backs up the law, if in fact it violates the Bill of Rights, which cannot be abridged or have ANY laws written against it. It would still be an ILLEGAL LAW.
The founding fathers even went so far, specially Jmaes Madison who penned the Bill of Rights, to keep the Constituition and the Bill of Rights short and to the point(unlike Obama care and the tax code) so that the average uneducated, non law degree American could FULLY understand it. Its the lawyers and so called "self proclaimed lawyers" that have a hard time understanding it, or try to concvince you it says something it clearly DOES NOT!

Ask snoc. He will tell you that if Obama writes a E.O., and Holder backs it, ITS LAW! Period.
Its scares the piss out of me to think that military and X military think this way considering it was their SWORN duty to protect the very document way too many will ignorantly violate because a tyranntical CIC orders them to. Scary shit!

Thanks again Rayzor, and thanks to the ballsy author of one of the very few CURRENT writings I have read on the TRUE definition of our government, the TRUE obligation of our military, and the TRUE rights of the poeple.
Lets just hope that more and more people become aware of the threat to our RIGHTS as given to us by our founding fathers that so many are willing to take away.
They ALL need to realize that without this ONE RIGHT, all the others are indefensable.

I personally blame the schools, and even more improtantly, OUR MILITARY for not FULLY expaining to each and every soldiers EXACTLY what it is he is swearing to uphold. Basic traninig needs to include a class on the constitution in basic training. A course written by the formost recognized constitutional lawyers in the country!! So that when the time comes that the military is asked t carry out an order, the AVERAGE troop KNOWS what is LEGAL, and what is not. Don't hold your breath expecting the government to educate you or the military on what the constitution not only says about your rights, but about your OBLIGATION.

It embrassing and scary to think that our military along with the police, are willing to turn on its people, simply because a tyranntical potus and his AG call for it, for no other reason than pure ignorance of the LAW!

Don't even get me started on ILLEGAL violations of the 5th and 6th amendments and drone strikes carried out by the U.S. military on American citizens on American soil OR ABROAD!!!
This is one of my favorite firearms of all time to hold an argument with regarding todays "assult rifles". The M1 carbine was the assualt weapon of the 40s. It was very instrumental in the WWII victory. It was the most issued long gun in WWII buy far.
I bought 3 of them in the mid 60s, all war surplus, all brand new, for around 25.00 a piece, mail order delievered to my door. How and why? Because back then, surplus war materials, including long guns and pistols were consider OURS. We paid for them. The government THEN was somewhat obligated to give us first choice at purchasing them back at or near the cost of production. NOBODY considered it selling a WAR DESIGN WEAPON back then. It was simply a surplus weapon and sold BACK to the original purchaser, US!!
Anyobdy really think they were bought and sold as a hunting rifle? Anything they were looked at as a MASS MURDER WEAPON? FUCK NO!
Millions of M1s were sold to the public after WWII, of over 20 years after. They made that many. Underwood typewriter made them, General Motors made them under Saginaw and Inland names. Winchester, Remington, all made them.

NOW, its an assault weapon? Give me a fucking break.

BTW, just to give you an idea how much this country has lost its mind, the piston mechanism in the M1 was invented in prison by a guy named Marshall Willaims serving a 30 year prison term for second degree murder, but they let him develope a auto load rifle while he was in their. Imagine that. Imagine WWII without it.
They are STILL inproduction and issued to the military in the Philippines and other small countries.
Bob, you are a complete moron. You don't have clue what I do or don't think, so stop dragging my name into your posts. Period, end of discussion. You don't have my permission to use my name and attach your false representations of what I think to it. Can you understand that? Climb out of your bottle long enough to get someone to explain it to you if you need to, but stop slandering my name.

And while you are busy being wrong, most WWII infantrymen preferred the BAR over the M1 but I'm sure you've talked to tons of WWII infantrymen who will say otherwise. But, assigned to support the infantry, I did get the chance to speak with several. The M1 was simply more plentiful. And the M1 was never an assault weapon back then. The term wasn't even invented back then. The military used assault rifles, of which the BAR was one. That is why the BAR wasn't sold off in huge numbers as surplus.

The president can't create a law by EO or any other means. Why the president can't make laws period. But, you should know that since you claim to be the constitutional expert. The real danger to our country is following either side, the right or the left, without question as that is the quickest path to Tyranny. There are also quotes where some of the founding fathers thought the constitution needed to be left open enough for future interpretation/expansion. So either side can focus on a slice and claim they and only they meet the true intent of the founding fathers. Both sides would be wrong as the founding fathers were not all of the same opinion, they simply reached an understanding that was acceptable to all involved. They never thought they could write one document that withstand the ages without adjustments. They wanted to lay the groundwork and the principles on which the country was to be built. They are referred to as the framers of the constitution because much like you frame a foundation, they were laying the foundation upon which a great nation was built by those that followed. Had they truly not wanted any adjustments to the constitution they would have written a prohibition to changing the constitution into it as well not a procedure by which it could be amended. Yes they were smart and knew what they were doing. But, they aren't here to elaborate on the reasoning behind what they did. So it is up for interpretation and both sides have their versions.

I personally like the current view of the second amendment by the Supreme Court. I think any Peaceful citizen should be allowed to own guns. But, I think the right is just as much agenda driven as the left is. My personal stance is somewhere in the middle. Yes, I lean more one direction than the other, and my friends know which direction that is. Probably why you don't get it Bob.
 

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I have posted about this before. No one will come to take your guns. The socialist agenda will use the IRS to enforce civil penalties on you for not turning them in as ordered to do so. Tax liens, wage garnishments until you comply. They are doing this with obamacare now. Stuff that you have that is not registered, well they may not know you have it but what can you do with it? Can't go to the range anymore and enjoy your hobby. Just have to hide it and not use it. Doesn't sound like a fun option to me. OUR rights are slowly being chiseled away and not just the 2nd.
 

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I have posted about this before. No one will come to take your guns. The socialist agenda will use the IRS to enforce civil penalties on you for not turning them in as ordered to do so. Tax liens, wage garnishments until you comply. .
Good point. They'll do this with cars, boats, and motorcycles too. Just keep raising the price and the hassle until you give up, and they'll make it too expensive to fight them.
I was riding my enduro on vacant county owned land, some cop writes me a ticket for not having a motorcycle license, the judge fines me $1 plus costs, $250 !! for costs.
 

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Good point. They'll do this with cars, boats, and motorcycles too. Just keep raising the price and the hassle until you give up, and they'll make it too expensive to fight them.
I was riding my enduro on vacant county owned land, some cop writes me a ticket for not having a motorcycle license, the judge fines me $1 plus costs, $250 !! for costs.

You are right. They are doing it already with ever increasing high gas prices. Forcing us to give up our other hobbies and transition to small electric cars. It is also forcing people to move close or back into the inner cities to be close to work. Yes, court costs are a rip off but look at all the other hidden taxes that are ripping us off too like gas taxes, look at your property tax bill, etc... the middle class is getting squeezed out of existence and most of the middle class people like guns and now that is being taken away also. This is a world wide effort in my opinion to fundamentally change America forever into a socialist nation. O and the clown posse are just the tool to use by powerful financial people from around the world such as Soros, Bloomberg, etc...
 

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Bob, you are a complete moron. You don't have clue what I do or don't think, so stop dragging my name into your posts. Period, end of discussion. You don't have my permission to use my name and attach your false representations of what I think to it. Can you understand that? Climb out of your bottle long enough to get someone to explain it to you if you need to, but stop slandering my name.

And while you are busy being wrong, most WWII infantrymen preferred the BAR over the M1 but I'm sure you've talked to tons of WWII infantrymen who will say otherwise. But, assigned to support the infantry, I did get the chance to speak with several. The M1 was simply more plentiful. And the M1 was never an assault weapon back then. The term wasn't even invented back then. The military used assault rifles, of which the BAR was one. That is why the BAR wasn't sold off in huge numbers as surplus.

The president can't create a law by EO or any other means. Why the president can't make laws period. But, you should know that since you claim to be the constitutional expert. The real danger to our country is following either side, the right or the left, without question as that is the quickest path to Tyranny. There are also quotes where some of the founding fathers thought the constitution needed to be left open enough for future interpretation/expansion. So either side can focus on a slice and claim they and only they meet the true intent of the founding fathers.

I personally like the current view of the second amendment by the Supreme Court. I think any Peaceful citizen should be allowed to own guns. But, I think the right is just as much agenda driven as the left is. My personal stance is somewhere in the middle. Yes, I lean more one direction than the other, and my friends know which direction that is. Probably why you don't get it Bob.
First friend, I have NEVER EVER used your NAME on the boards EVER!!!!!
I will continue to use your user name as I see fit. Thank you very much!

Presidents cannot write law? You would LIKE to think so. However, we have had other marxist dictators that have and got away with it. All in the name of national security. Any idea how many total years the country HAS NOT been in a state of emmergency? The number would shock you.
Imagine, making it ILLEGAL to own the ONLY money that the constitution called REAL money, and making LOAN NOTES the ONLY legal currancy. Any idea how we got in the mess we are in today and how it started? I doubt it.
If the POTUS can write a EO that demands and requires you to surrender all REAL money, the ONLY REAL as decribed the US Constitution, and make it ILLEGAL to possess, what the fuck makes you think that a POTUS can't or won't try to do the same thing that the same documant says about firearms?
SNOC, ever hear of someone being fined $10,000.00 (in 1933 dollars!!!) and spending 10 years in a fedral pen that DIDN'T break a LAW????
Like I said before, collecting intel does NOT require any intelligence of the collector or the person the determines what the intel means. Collecitng data is a brainless job. computers to it daily, all day at Google. Ask YOUR adminstration. Add a dipshit in charge of determining what the data means and you have big ass oppsies.


Never said the M1 was the choice of the infantry. Get your INTEL straight!!! BTW, the government surplused out MILLIONS of BARs and ammo to go with them in the 50 and 60s. I know, my bother has one, bought surplus!

Yes, the founding fathers did think the constitution should be open ended. It why we are able to add amendments.
However, the Bill of Rights is 100% inclucive and even says it is not to be fucked with. THE GOVERNMENT SHALL MAKE NO LAW!!!
"SHALL DO BE INFRINGED"

The very idea of letting the government infringe on the Bill of Rights is ludicrious. The very document was written to PROTECT the people from a tyranntical abusive government, and here YOU are saying that there MIGHT be times to allow them the power to do so. You have to be fucking kidding.,

Please Mr Intel, get your intel straight, before YOU give bad intel to somebody that might drop a bomb on a innocent.



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I have been reluctant to discuss a certain situation for lack of being present when this happened , here go's , my friend has a brother in law who back in november went up to national forest land to target shoot , he was approached by NF law enforcement . He was searching for illegal weapons . The guns being fired were a 9mm rifle , a 9mm pistol , and a m1 carbine 30 cal , these guns were seized due to them not having the so called ( ca mag drop button ) and the LEO wrote dude a TICKET with 3 felony cites on it . One per gun . I have seen the ticket personally but dont remember the codes ! Heres were it gets interesting ! He is scared shitless due to the severity of the charges , he has called every courthouse , county , state , and federal in the eldorado co , sacramento area , even the local DA's office , knowone has a record of the citation and any clue how to fight the citation ! Knowone has an idea of where the weapons are at either ! Ive told him to seek legal representation but he feels he cant afford the fight and is nervous about opening up a can o worms ! Did he have the right to tell LEO to fock off and beat it ? I live in a small town and this is not the first time ive heard things about the LEO involved in this ! Word travels fast , but once again , i wasnt there in all cases
Have your friend contact the Calguns Foundation. Calguns Foundation
 
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