Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Some guy
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
I can't tell by the photo. How large is that piece? Is it malleable(soft and bendable)? Not magnetic, correct?

Did you drain the oil yet and/or cut the filter open?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I can't tell by the photo. How large is that piece? Is it malleable(soft and bendable)? Not magnetic, correct?

Did you drain the oil yet and/or cut the filter open?
Specks are way too small to even think about bending...I'm talking micro!
I'll have to swirl a magnet in the oil to see if anything sticks to it but...you can't see anything in the oil (looks clean).
The three large dots are from the reflection of the sun...I was trying to get the micro specks of glitter to show in the pics, not easy to do.
That may have been a 1" dab of oil on the paper and again I had to press firm with my finger on the head to pick up the particles (not glitter size) but so small they would fit in a finger print groove. Almost like dust particle size here and there but not enough to change the color of the oil like if a cam went bad. I know >(that made my oil silver!)
I'll cut the filter open tomorrow and look deep inside the pleats.
 

·
Some guy
Joined
·
3,608 Posts
ok, the way you wrote it, I thought the entire shape was a piece of metal. Pretty hard to tell from that photo what you have going on.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Are you running alum heads?
049 Iron Heads w/aluminum Crowler rocker arms.
Even though some 5 years old, not many hours on this engine and I do understand any 'new' engine will make some fine break-in particulate metal.
If I recall correctly I built it with .003 in the mains and .0025 in the rods.

*Oil pressure is strong at 70/75 but with this 20/50 I have in it this season (usually I run straight 50W VR1) I notice during at extended run a 3500/4000 rpm, and I then punch it up to 5300, oil pressure drops some 10 lbs. I don't recall that never happening with the straight 50wt.
10 Qt oil pan but I only run 8-9 qts w/the pick up welded in.
Don't have a oil temp gauge, no oil cooler.
 

·
mo balls than $cents$
Joined
·
11,734 Posts
hammer, is it possible that its left over material from a previous failure? sometimes its a bitch to get everything outta the valvetrain.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
Almost like dust particle size here and there but not enough to change the color of the oil like if a cam went bad. I know >(that made my oil silver!)
if this is the same motor, and those specks are magnetic, you need to change your oil NOW! It is almost impossible to get all of that crap out of a motor(even if you tear it down) and is hard as diamonds.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
hammer, is it possible that its left over material from a previous failure? sometimes its a bitch to get everything outta the valvetrain.
Few years back(last rebuild) I did have a cam lobe go down in 20 minutes...loaded the oil with silver, you could easily see it.
When the block was empty I did pull 'all' the oil galley plugs and bottle brush the block clean with hot soapy water several times. Could some still be floating around, maybe.
What brought rise to my attention was the oil pressure dropped with the 20/50 when I stomped the pedal...a real eye opener.
Some friends thought it was due to the oil being over filled and foaming, not so. Some others thought it was the 20/50 breaking down > I hope so.
Again, no oil cooler and I don't recall that happening with the straight 50 wt.
Engine sounds great, no odd noises etc.
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
Is this a blower engine? If not, why so heavy on the oil? Why did you change oils?
Particles will find their way into crevices and little potholes and settle out of the oil. They may have been there for a long time, and be a result of some of the first runs and just be some residual crap in the engine. It happens. Hopefully the filter picks up most of this stuff before it gets recycled through the engine. Best thnig to do is cut open the filter and inspect. You can also send the oil in for analysis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
I run a filtermag and cut the filters open frequently....scary. The guy who owned before me never got all the oil out on changes, had a lot of crud accumulated on the bottom. I put in a gallon of deisel and pulled it around the hood for a while and pumped it out, will freshin the motor this winter. Hope it makes it that long, oil pressure is good.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
All great feedback above and I thank you...:))THumbsUp
To answer a few other questions...no blower, N/A 468 10.50:1
Why did I run 50wt? Just what I've heard was the thing to do in marine(Bob Teaque likes it) and old school Hot Rods since I was a teenager back in the early 70's. Also when running 50wt I noticed the oil held better pressure after a extended long run. Does that mean moving parts had a better cushion of oil when very hot 'AND' oil clung better to the parts when sitting for a week of not running >I always thought so.

I drained almost 8 quarts from a 10 qt pan so it was not over filled, the 20/50 was hot and I then hacked open the filter.

To my surprise the oil draining out of the pan was 100% free of any debris. I took several samples and checked under direct sun light and saw nothing but clean oil free of any particulate!

The filter pleats were also very-very clean and free of any debris. The few specks seen in the pics below are actually specks of white paint from the filter being hacked open.

Now...at the bottom of the filter cup the concentrated oil did have a very slight dusting of micro fine particle. I did swirl a magnet around it and it appeared not much of anything at all would stick.

Could this just be left over debris from my cam failure several years back...could be. Could it simply be new engine break in debris from a low hour rebuild...could be.
I do change the oil ever season and can't say I've seen anything scary in the oil.

BUT again...what raises my concern, why did the oil pressure drop some 10-15 lbs when I punched it after an extended run, did the 20/50 simply break down, was it foaming? It didn't do it again when I let the oil cool for several minutes.


Few white specks are paint...!

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
the "debri" you are seeing (that isn't magnetic) is most likely carbon. I don't think I would worry too much if the pressure drop only happened after a extented run and then only when you punched it, then went back to acting normal. Do your self a favor and get an oil temp gauge. I wouldn't go back to the straight 50 because of this thiough,and if the pressure was still 60-65 when it dropped, still plenty. PS valvoline VR1 fell victum to the same EPA rulings as all the oils with an API rating. If you are running a flat tappet, think about a syn oil, (you would prolly be miles ahead with 10-30 Mobil 1 over what you are running now)or an additive from one of the cam companies or running diesel oil like Rotella. Your cam will love you for it. So will your rockers if they are stock sled ball type



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
the "debri" you are seeing (that isn't magnetic) is most likely carbon. I don't think I would worry too much if the pressure drop only happened after a extented run and then only when you punched it, then went back to acting normal. Do your self a favor and get an oil temp gauge. I wouldn't go back to the straight 50 because of this thiough,and if the pressure was still 60-65 when it dropped, still plenty. PS valvoline VR1 fell victum to the same EPA rulings as all the oils with an API rating. If you are running a flat tappet, think about a syn oil, (you would prolly be miles ahead with 10-30 Mobil 1 over what you are running now)or an additive from one of the cam companies or running diesel oil like Rotella. Your cam will love you for it. So will your rockers if they are stock sled ball type
I certainly appreciate you feedback...
From Valvoline's web site...
"Valvoline Racing VR1 : 75% higher zink than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications.
This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines."


Just for giggles I'll be calling Valvoline tomorrow to see how much Zinc and Phosphorus levels are in the current VR1 racing oils.
Brad Penn's are >Zinc 0.150 and Phosphorus 0.140

(if) I had a oil cooler or tighter clearances I would feel better about trying the 10/30. Just don't think I'm ready for that yet. However, Royal Purple 20/50 may get my attention.

Also being a older diesel owner most all diesel raited oils also fell victim to the EPA demands. I was just looking at lables/API ratings the other day. Rotella still carries the better raiting.(for now)
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
I certainly appreciate you feedback...
From Valvoline's web site...
"Valvoline Racing VR1 : 75% higher zink than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications.
This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines."


Just for giggles I'll be calling Valvoline tomorrow to see how much Zinc and Phosphorus levels are in the current VR1 racing oils.
Brad Penn's are >Zinc 0.150 and Phosphorus 0.140

(if) I had a oil cooler or tighter clearances I would feel better about trying the 10/30. Just don't think I'm ready for that yet. However, Royal Purple 20/50 may get my attention.

Also being a older diesel owner most all diesel raited oils also fell victim to the EPA demands. I was just looking at lables/API ratings the other day. Rotella still carries the better raiting.(for now)
Hammer,
I ran 5-30 M1 in my 467 with basically the same clearances, GM steel crank, Mk IV block, etc. 60-65# pressure, never an issue FWIW. Engine is on (ending) it's third season.
Mind you, I did have a Dan Olson pan. Makes a big difference in oil control, but I wouldn't let the clearances sway you from a lighter oil.
JMO
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,488 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Again great feedback and it's much appreciated.

Yes, a oil temp gauge is something I should/will get.
A friend uses a stick on at the filter w/ a digital read out at the dash...works pretty darn good from what he tells me.

10 Qt Milidon Jet Pan on the engine...for what that's worth. Not the best but better than what was on there originally.

I know some drag racers that only use Mobil-1 5w-20 or less in their drag boats. For rotational parasitic drag reduction I can understand it 100% But, would that work in a lake river boat that holds RPM for miles on end vs 8 seconds at a time?

All great info above and this is how I learn, thanks again Ray
 

·
21 Daytona
Joined
·
5,291 Posts
Hammer
for whats its worth I have used Mobil 1 for several years
with great results.
and where we boat we may stay on it for 20-30 minutes at a time
sometimes longer.

are you running any type of evacuation system?
one of my friends was having a pressure problem similar to yours
and figured out the header evac system was holding the oil in the heads. it would only do it on an extended run while hitting a few
rollers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
valvoline VR1 is listed as "engine oils that contain sufficient zddp and are ok for flat tappet break in"

along with:
brad penn grade 1 break in oil,
micro zol br break in oil,
chevron delo 400,
mobil delvac,
swepco 306 15w40,

joe gibbs break in oil 2800 ppm zinc
valvoline vr1 racing 1300 ppm
other specs are not concrete, (but in the 800 to 1400 range) so not posting
Precision Engine aritcle Jan, Feb 08.
Just passing info along. Don't shoot the messenger if your favorite brand is not here. These are the specific oils mentioned in the article.
Wags
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top