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steelcomp was here
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Discussion Starter #1
BDS says not to use a synthetic, just a non detergent, non synthetic 90wt. I have some Valvoline 80w90 semi synthetic. Any input? Street deal, going to be driven seldom further than a few miles at a time, low boost, etc.
Thanks in advance.
 

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steelcomp was here
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Discussion Starter #4
And what did BDS say to use..........






Darrell.

first post:
BDS says not to use a synthetic, just a non detergent, non synthetic 90wt.
Thats what the tag on the bower says.
My question is regarding a semi synthetic, but I'll just get some regular 90wt.
Thanks
 

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Craig has some stuff that we tested made by his buddy Cousimano, we like it, it has some EXTREME HD modifiers! Also have been using full synthetics in the roots blowers on boats and cars, street/strip and drag for 20+ years. Full synthetics make the gears quieter, but haven't seen any other differences other than a small amount of seal weeping on some older units. TIMINATOR
 

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Blower Oil

Some of the synthetics are simply too thin. They do a great job at lubricating but get past the seals. Remember the front cover gets pressurized and can push the oil out if it is very thin. This will make a huge mess. I have seen this many times. A standard 80w-90w with a GL5 rating works pretty good.
Another option would be Mercury Hi-Performance outdrive gear oil. It is a different color (Green) and won't be confused with anything else being used in the engine. This is of only useful if there are oil control issues going on. I personaly like the Mercury oil. If it can hang in an outdrive with all of those changing loads, it be just perfect for an old roots blower.
 

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B.A.M aka "Black Azz Mike
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Good question Scott:) I was curious about the same thing and now I have my answers:)

Spitter
 

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B.A.M aka "Black Azz Mike
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Some of the synthetics are simply too thin. They do a great job at lubricating but get past the seals. Remember the front cover gets pressurized and can push the oil out if it is very thin. This will make a huge mess. I have seen this many times. A standard 80w-90w with a GL5 rating works pretty good.
Another option would be Mercury Hi-Performance outdrive gear oil. It is a different color (Green) and won't be confused with anything else being used in the engine. This is of only useful if there are oil control issues going on. I personaly like the Mercury oil. If it can hang in an outdrive with all of those changing loads, it be just perfect for an old roots blower.

Great info Marv. Thanks for th info bud:):)hand
 

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steelcomp was here
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Discussion Starter #9
Some of the synthetics are simply too thin. They do a great job at lubricating but get past the seals. Remember the front cover gets pressurized and can push the oil out if it is very thin. This will make a huge mess. I have seen this many times. A standard 80w-90w with a GL5 rating works pretty good.
Another option would be Mercury Hi-Performance outdrive gear oil. It is a different color (Green) and won't be confused with anything else being used in the engine. This is of only useful if there are oil control issues going on. I personaly like the Mercury oil. If it can hang in an outdrive with all of those changing loads, it be just perfect for an old roots blower.
Thanks...that's the kind of input I was looking for.;)
 

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I have had good luck with the Hi-Performance outdrive gear oil. It costs a bit more, but has really worked well. I have had few problems with overheating since I started using this. You may talk to others, but this is what I would recommend. Using the right oil has also helped with trucks overheating which may lead to a
Truck Accident. I hope this helps.
 

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I can answer this. The problem with synthetic gear oil is that the ball bearings will actually slide instead of roll. Synthetic oil is actually to slippery.
Some old wives tales will not die not matter how many times they are stabbed:DThis same cock and bull story was tried with roller lifters years ago. If there isn't enough frition to roll the balls, then there isn't enough friction to make them wear, and then it just wouldn't matter. The TOO slippery fantasy is as old as synthetic oils themselves. Wonder if the jet aircraft industry knows the stuff is that slick. Any idea the number or roller bearing in some jet aircraft? Even if that was the problem, they could put friction modifiers in it to resolve the problem. Most readend assemblies have ball bearings. The only thing synthetic may be too slick for is some wet clutch material like motorcycles and posi units. And then, they do in fact blend in a friction modifier and dropout any and all moly. Most good gear lubes are rich in moly, and don't get along well with wet clutches.
Some of the synthetics are simply too thin. They do a great job at lubricating but get past the seals. Remember the front cover gets pressurized and can push the oil out if it is very thin. This will make a huge mess. I have seen this many times. A standard 80w-90w with a GL5 rating works pretty good.
Another option would be Mercury Hi-Performance outdrive gear oil. It is a different color (Green) and won't be confused with anything else being used in the engine. This is of only useful if there are oil control issues going on. I personaly like the Mercury oil. If it can hang in an outdrive with all of those changing loads, it be just perfect for an old roots blower.
Steel,... Boost Daddy and Phil are dead on here. Mercury's HIGH PERFORMANCE gear oil is the best gear oil on planet earth. IMO. DO NOT however confuse the stuff for their PREMIUM gear oil which is far from the best.
We carry one gear oil with us to the races, for the v drive, blower, what ever. It is also sold at places like WalMart as Quicksilver.
The very operation of the blower seal is the same as the rear seal in a engine, or a trans tailshaft, or the crankshaft seals in a two stroke, and some hydraulic lifts. All use synthetics just fine. The more pressure put on the seal, the better it seals. Its a vacuum they don't take to well and blower can see a vacuum at closed throttle. But thats still not really the really BDS says that. They aren't the only ones saying it either. I asked Mark Williams who adamantly said the very same thing, and I asked Railsback(sp) at BDS. And they both said the same thing. There are good synthetic gear oil, and there is shit. Neither will recommend an oil by name. Conventional or synthetic. Mark Williams did go so far as to say they have had no adverse issues with Lucas sythetic and left it at that. But he had no problems with ANY quality conventional gear oil.
There are some seriously bad gear synthetic gear oils out there, which leads me to believe the same can be said for synthetic motor oils, which I have always believed. But for obvious reasons, bad gear oil shows its self, specially in a high pressure application much sooner than bad motor oil.
Casale has recommended Redline Heavy Shockproof for years. I hate the stuff and will never use it again. But Andy says it has never hurt a Casale box in all th years he has recommended it.
I hate Redline because it will create strawberry whip cream at the slightest sight of water. Maybe not a problem in a blower, but in a v-drive, Redline and water = death.
Bottom line, synthetic gears oil work bitchin, just has to be the RIGHT synthetic gear oil. IMO Mercury/Quicksilver is the very best.



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Blower seals under vacuum.

Intersting subject. A roots blower used as a pressure booster has negative vacuum on one side of the rotors and positive pressure on the other. (I'm sure there must be a ratio depending on all conditions) But the seals are on the ends in what I can only imagine as a turbulant constant changing scenario. I guess it would be a vacuum/pressure 'flutter' more or less.

I maintain several very large roots style blowers at work that we use as booster pumps to very large mechanical vacuum pumps. These are used on Mass specometers for evacuation purposes for large helium leak testing chambers. The roots blowers run at idle vacuum (0) down to about 20-25 Torr. These run 7/24 365 3 shifts.

We use a semi synthetic gear oil that has anti-foamimg agents. I would guess it to be 60 to 80 wt. by the viscosity. I change the oil every 3 months whether they need it or not..lol I check the levels on a daily basis (sight glass) and they never seem to need any additional oil so the seals must be doing there jobs. Most of these pumps are 10 plus years old. Just some food for thought on the vacuum end of the blower seal subject.

I just noticed this thread was dredged up from 2 1/2 years ago.. hmmm.
 

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Some old wives tales will not die not matter how many times they are stabbed:DThis same cock and bull story was tried with roller lifters years ago. If there isn't enough frition to roll the balls, then there isn't enough friction to make them wear, and then it just wouldn't matter. The TOO slippery fantasy is as old as synthetic oils themselves. Wonder if the jet aircraft industry knows the stuff is that slick. Any idea the number or roller bearing in some jet aircraft? Even if that was the problem, they could put friction modifiers in it to resolve the problem. Most readend assemblies have ball bearings. The only thing synthetic may be too slick for is some wet clutch material like motorcycles and posi units. And then, they do in fact blend in a friction modifier and dropout any and all moly. Most good gear lubes are rich in moly, and don't get along well with wet clutches.

Steel,... Boost Daddy and Phil are dead on here. Mercury's HIGH PERFORMANCE gear oil is the best gear oil on planet earth. IMO. DO NOT however confuse the stuff for their PREMIUM gear oil which is far from the best.
We carry one gear oil with us to the races, for the v drive, blower, what ever. It is also sold at places like WalMart as Quicksilver.
The very operation of the blower seal is the same as the rear seal in a engine, or a trans tailshaft, or the crankshaft seals in a two stroke, and some hydraulic lifts. All use synthetics just fine. The more pressure put on the seal, the better it seals. Its a vacuum they don't take to well and blower can see a vacuum at closed throttle. But thats still not really the really BDS says that. They aren't the only ones saying it either. I asked Mark Williams who adamantly said the very same thing, and I asked Railsback(sp) at BDS. And they both said the same thing. There are good synthetic gear oil, and there is shit. Neither will recommend an oil by name. Conventional or synthetic. Mark Williams did go so far as to say they have had no adverse issues with Lucas sythetic and left it at that. But he had no problems with ANY quality conventional gear oil.
There are some seriously bad gear synthetic gear oils out there, which leads me to believe the same can be said for synthetic motor oils, which I have always believed. But for obvious reasons, bad gear oil shows its self, specially in a high pressure application much sooner than bad motor oil.
Casale has recommended Redline Heavy Shockproof for years. I hate the stuff and will never use it again. But Andy says it has never hurt a Casale box in all th years he has recommended it.
I hate Redline because it will create strawberry whip cream at the slightest sight of water. Maybe not a problem in a blower, but in a v-drive, Redline and water = death.
Bottom line, synthetic gears oil work bitchin, just has to be the RIGHT synthetic gear oil. IMO Mercury/Quicksilver is the very best.
VERY good post, GN! Well put.

I would only slightly disagree on the Merc-lube part. ONLY in the label part. If one could find out who's gear lube it really is (mfg) and just buy it direct - it would make more sense to me. I personally have never been a fan of paying someone just for slapping a label on a bottle that someone else made. That being said, I haven't used Merc gear oil before - but if GN7 says it will stand up to the workout his V-drive has to go through, it must be pretty good stuff.

I still rely on TORCO gear lubes. Just like GN, I have put most oils through the test. Not in a marine application, but in 1-ton and 2-ton truck applications. Pulling loads up and down the Grapevine (mountain range back into LA and back), I have cooked most every other brand of gear lube. Finally tried TORCO synthetic and absolutely COULD NOT hurt the stuff. Therefore, I use their RTF (racing trans fluid - which is not ATF). It is recommended for marine outdrive units where maximum power is desired.
 

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steelcomp was here
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Discussion Starter #19
hil:) I wonder why Steel was bringing this back up. I was thinking, damn the dude is getting old and senile:)sphss
Wasn't me bringging it up. I got my answer. :D
Funny...I was reading the title and saw that it was my thread...I thought, huh? Then I saw the date...LOL...my last post in this thread was 1/09. :)hand
 

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LAID IN MEXICO
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Lee, at Littlefield, told me not to stress about it:D he said "run what ever oil you put in the engine". i dont run whats in my engine, but i think i put some good 50wt i had on the shelf into it.
 
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