[Jim W]

I have a chance to buy a Donovan D block, 4.500 bore along with a set of AFR 357 CNC heads. Can also get the Howard's crank that was in it. Crank is turned .010--.010. I believe the crank starts as either a Callies or Trick Flow??? Rods are Eagle with the L/19 bolts, don't know the length. The pistons are low compression and I am going high compression.

I wouldn't mind getting a new crank and rods. What's the cubic inch limit for the 357 CNC heads??

Basic build will be.....
1963 Nova mainly a street car but a few trips to the track. Single dominator carb on a ported intake, Solid roller cam from CStraub, T&D rockers, 13 or 14ish compression running E-85 with a max RPM of 7,500.

So, I can stay with the 572 or go up to a 598--615--632 but, I want to keep the heads matched to what I am trying to do.
Your thought's?????

Thanks, Jim

 

[scott foxwell]

Jim, if you keep the rpm reasonable, (and 7500 is sort of reasonable) you can go pretty big with those heads. Send me some flow numbers if you have them and we can go from there.

 

[scott foxwell]

Hold the phone...I have a flow sheet here form a set I did for a customer. It's good, too, because it's not what AFR says it is...go figure.

 

[gunslinger]

In my opinion the 572 will be more than enough for a street car that will see the track on a limited basis. That is a very light car with a big motor. Your going to have to do something to tame the torque down low or spend some money on the suspension. Sounds fun.

 

[Jim W]

Hold the phone...I have a flow sheet here form a set I did for a customer. It's good, too, because it's not what AFR says it is...go figure.

LOL OK Holding.......

I don't have flow numbers and don't know if the owner does????

From lot's of reading, I am leaning tward's a 615 4.60 X 4,625 It's a 10.2 block by the way.

Jim

 

[scott foxwell]

LOL OK Holding.......

I don't have flow numbers and don't know if the owner does????

From lot's of reading, I am leaning tward's a 615 4.60 X 4,625 It's a 10.2 block by the way.

Jim

PM sent.

 

[71hallett]

LOL OK Holding.......

I don't have flow numbers and don't know if the owner does????

From lot's of reading, I am leaning tward's a 615 4.60 X 4,625 It's a 10.2 block by the way.

Jim

Hope you think its going to be enough!!!

Carry on.hand

 

[71hallett]

Just my .02 but a 588 always seems to have made a happy motor.

 

[Factory1]

Myself and my good friend Tony are both very pleased with our 572's, but they are Mopars. If you were to get an easliy obtainable 1.5hp per cubic inch, the 615 would be worth 65hp over the 572, provided you had enough head to support it. What you are looking at is an extreme torque monster, 800ft/lbs plus, in you light weight little car. I take it you plan on tubbing the car and installing a 4 link out back? I have a 493"er with Edelbrock RPM heads, 10.5:1, solid cam in a much bigger, heavier 69 Dodge Coronet R/T, and it blows 10" meats off of it to about 60mph in third. For a toy car that will see very little track time, I think your decision to run high compression and race gas will get old really quick, and limit the cars milage unless you are very rich. P.S. I wouldn't run Eagle rods with that much motor unless your goal is to ventilate the block!

 

[Jim W]

Hope you think its going to be enough!!!

Carry on.hand

That's why I am asking.
Could always spray it with a 100-200 shot but, would rather do it motor only.

Gunslinger,
have a 496 with low 600 HP in the Nova now and it's a bit of a handful for the first 100' or so. I want to make it a handful going all the way up to third gear. I like the game that can be played back and forth by the car and the driver. Hmmmmm I guess I could always put on a set of 165-75-15's on the rear bulb

Jim

 

[Jim W]

Dodge Coronet R/T, and it blows 10" meats off of it to about 60mph in third. For a toy car that will see very little track time, I think your decision to run high compression and race gas will get old really quick, and limit the cars milage unless you are very rich. P.S. I wouldn't run Eagle rods with that much motor unless your goal is to ventilate the block!

F1, in a friendly response,
you are in third gear at 60 MPH???

I am not running race gas. The car is on E-85 for a cost per gallon around $1.99. Pretty much drive the car once or twice a week for a 10-15 mile loop and beat the snot out of it the whole way.

71Hallett has a friend making 1,600 HP (turbo) for a few years now with the Eagle rods.

Personally, I love a torque monster in a light car!!!

Jim

 

[scott foxwell]

Heads are going to be the limiting factor at that c.i./rpm, but still, 400cfm should make 900 or so. I wouldn't worry about the Eagles, especially with the L19's. They're GTG. Keep the 600ci at or below 7000... you're still going to need 400cfm to make 900hp. That's asking for a BIG cam with those heads. Might need a little more air.

 

[Jim W]

Heads are going to be the limiting factor at that c.i./rpm, but still, 400cfm should make 900 or so. I wouldn't worry about the Eagles, especially with the L19's. They're GTG. Keep the 600ci at or below 7000... you're still going to need 400cfm to make 900hp. That's asking for a BIG cam with those heads. Might need a little more air.

I kinda like these.......

http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com/RFD-heads-24-edelbrock-victor.htm

Jim

 

[Factory1]

F1, in a friendly response,
you are in third gear at 60 MPH???

I am not running race gas. The car is on E-85 for a cost per gallon around $1.99. Pretty much drive the car once or twice a week for a 10-15 mile loop and beat the snot out of it the whole way.

71Hallett has a friend making 1,600 HP (turbo) for a few years now with the Eagle rods.

Personally, I love a torque monster in a light car!!!

Jim

Yes I am in third at 60mph, it's a 4spd car with 3.91's. I don't mean to disrespect Eagle products, I have used them myself with good success, but you have to realize in the high end aftermarket parts industry, they are entry level, and have their intended uses and limitations. The more hp and torque you will make with a BIG motor the closer you will get to their threshold. Higher rpm's as well will tax them. The only reason they are standing up to the 1,600hp would be the turbo in my opinion, if it was 1,600 roots blown, those rods would be fragmented. They are a inexpensive copy of a Carillo, and wouldn't be my choice for that type of power.

 

[scott foxwell]

I kinda like these.......

http://www.raceflowdevelopment.com/RFD-heads-24-edelbrock-victor.htm

Jim

What's not to like...Curtis is sharp and makes a good product.

 

[scott foxwell]

Yes I am in third at 60mph, it's a 4spd car with 3.91's. I don't mean to disrespect Eagle products, I have used them myself with good success, but you have to realize in the high end aftermarket parts industry, they are entry level, and have their intended uses and limitations. The more hp and torque you will make with a BIG motor the closer you will get to their threshold. Higher rpm's as well will tax them. The only reason they are standing up to the 1,600hp would be the turbo in my opinion, if it was 1,600 roots blown, those rods would be fragmented. They are a inexpensive copy of a Carillo, and wouldn't be my choice for that type of power.

F1, have you ever broken or seen a broken Eagle rod due to being "overpowered"? Just curious.

 

[Jim W]

What's not to like...Curtis is sharp and makes a good product.

OK, so let's build this thing.....

Donovan block at 4.600 bore with a 4.625 crank--615. Wet sump, I don't care about idle quality or RPM. 7,500 shift RPM.

I am thinking a Callies. crank. Is a oil shedding coating worthwhile with this big stroke? Swain Coatings is close to me.
Callies rods. 6.660 or 6.700
There was a mention here about 2 years ago about a piston maker who made some really nice pistons and held the ring lands to really close tolerances??? Coated skirts. Swain coatings?
No need to run a vacuum pump. So, rings?
Would like to go with coated rod and main bearings. Swain coatings?
Oil pump?
Synthetic oil, weight and oil pressure?
Oil drain hoses at the rear of the heads?
Pan, have a cross member to deal with. Scraper and windage tray?
RFD 24* heads, CStraub cam with Morell solid roller lifters.
Want to run a timing chain, not a belt.
Intake, ported Super Victor?
What size carb??? E-85.
E-85 loves compression. 13--15-1 range.
Ignition, need to program it to take power away from the initial hit and more.

Let's have the big Dawg experts argue it out and I will make a few decisions and get it built.
HP and TQ numbers will be posted

And you guy's thought it was going to get boring this winter....

Jim

 

[cfm]

Curtis did a 522 motor with those heads and went over 1k hp. I'd have him do your cam and intake manifold and you may touch 1100 ?

He's the man and just a call away.

 

[scott foxwell]

My thoughts

OK, so let's build this thing.....

Donovan block at 4.600 bore with a 4.625 crank--615. Wet sump, I don't care about idle quality or RPM. 7,500 shift RPM.
Why 7500?

I am thinking a Callies. crank. Is a oil shedding coating worthwhile with this big stroke? Swain Coatings is close to me.
If it's in the budget, anything to get the oil back in the pan is a plus. There is also profiling that can be done to the counterweights to help.
Callies rods. 6.660 or 6.700
No experience with Callies. (CompStar?) I beam or H beam? All the Chinese H beam rods are about the same AFAIK. I rhink the Manleys are said to be a touch better than the others. Dyer's and Pankl or Oliver for top steel rods.
There was a mention here about 2 years ago about a piston maker who made some really nice pistons and held the ring lands to really close tolerances??? Coated skirts. Swain coatings? I'm not a fan of coated pistons. I've heard no benefit on any testing. If you're talking about a custom piston, you might talk with Probe. There's always JE, and Mahle might be the one you were thinking of...they have a rep for very tight ring land tolerances (you use their rings)
No need to run a vacuum pump. So, rings? JE PLasma Moly or maybe a gapless top ring because of the alum. block
Would like to go with coated rod and main bearings. Swain coatings? Clevite coated bearings work well.
Oil pump? Never had a problem with Melling HV, but you can spend the $ and go Titan, or go external pump and get rid of the cam flex.
Synthetic oil, weight and oil pressure? For street/drag, as thin as possible like 5/30 M1 (with proper bearing clearnces)
Oil drain hoses at the rear of the heads?Not necessary with Conventional BB Chev heads
Pan, have a cross member to deal with. Scraper and windage tray? Stefs...talk to Chris. Cross member will be a big compromise in pan performance.
RFD 24* heads, CStraub cam with Morell solid roller lifters.Ditto on Chris for the cam, no matter what heads you use. Might look into the BMF's as well (Canfield casting)
Want to run a timing chain, not a belt. RollmasterIntake, ported Super Victor? Will work, or worked Dart or Sniper
What size carb??? E-85. BIG single four. AED or Lance Patton
E-85 loves compression. 13--15-1 range. 15:1 very difficult with conventional heads.
Ignition, need to program it to take power away from the initial hit and more.
MSD digital/crank trigger

Let's have the big Dawg experts argue it out and I will make a few decisions and get it built.
HP and TQ numbers will be posted

And you guy's thought it was going to get boring this winter....

Jim

 

[Factory1]

F1, have you ever broken or seen a broken Eagle rod due to being "overpowered"? Just curious.

No I have not.

Eagle makes good products, but they are not top end racing products. I wouldn't put Eagle rods in the company the likes of Carrillo, Oliver, GRP, BME, Brooks, nor would I put their cranks in with the likes of Callies, Valesco, Bryant, Oliver, etc,etc. I'm sure alot of people are running Eagle products with great results, I have to, but as power and rpm levels increase, so should the quality level of components. A broken rod usually destroys the entire short block, oil pan and does head damage. So do I choose an adequate rod, that saves me some money, or a do I spend the extra cash and get a top quality rod that buys me piece of mind?