Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Anybody have any experience running these two? Advantages one to the other? Thanks in advance!
VP C-12 is a good solid racing fuel. It has been around a long time and is the single most popular fuel I have sold. It is very stable, .717 specific gravity and 108 on the motor octane with a research number 112+ range. The fuel is leaded with 4.23 grams of lead per gallon and can be run in engines close to 15:1 compression ratio. Works really well in Big Blocks at the 12 to 13:1 ratio. Good power and controlled burn.

VP 113 is an oxygenated fuel. It is a different "class" of fuel as C-12. It is however also leaded and very stable with a specific gravity of .718. The motor octane is actually one point higher than C-12 at 109 and the research octane jumps way up there at 118. When running oxygenated fuels it is reccomended to run the jet size 4 to 6 numbers larger. When you do this, you actually increase the amount of fuel in the chamber, which as a result there is more lead in the chamber with the increased volume that assist in detonation resistance, etc. Two real plusses on the product 1) the fuel will make a little more power than C-12 and 2) with the oxygenation, the engine will operate more consistently from pass to pass even with weather changes. If you are a bracket racer you will love it. I have a customer with a decent 427 BBC in his dragster who is a good bracket racer. A few months back, he won a large NHRA bracket race. The race began about 10 in the morning and was over close to midnight. The next day he was reviewing his time slips and was suprised to discover that he had NOT changed his dial the whole day.... which is unheard of.

Basically, if you are class restricted to non-oxygenated fuels the C-12 is a very good choice for most engines. If you are not restricted by rules, I kind of consider the 113 as the oxygenated version of the C-12. 113 is a great choice.

Other fuels are available for higher effort engines and the Q-16 is the oxygenated version of the higher octane fuel and compares to non-oxygen fuels like C-15 & C-16.

Hope this helps.
Gear
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Gear how much is the VP C-12 vs VP110?
Gee... you had to ask. IMO, the VP 110 is a good performance fuel comparing with Turbo Blue, etc...., but C-12 is a true baseline racing fuel. About $80 per drum difference in price. Since this thread originated with the C-12 and 113 questions, those two are about the same price.

Gear
 

·
I do all my own stunts.
Joined
·
1,599 Posts
I wonder how this fuel compares in power to VP C-44, which was outlawed by NHRA a number of years ago?
that stuff is sick. i got a lung full of the fumes once, nothing compares, havent breathed the same since. Did pick up a couple tenths in the 1/4 with it though
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
that stuff is sick. i got a lung full of the fumes once, nothing compares, havent breathed the same since. Did pick up a couple tenths in the 1/4 with it though
You can breath right to this day because your lungs still remember. It you think about it, at the time you could take a second breath. Its like yur lungs went on strike, and punished you for inhaling that, and refused to take in any more air for at least 30 seconds. Its as if you lungs know "this shit can kill you dumbass"
I wonder how this fuel compares in power to VP C-44, which was outlawed by NHRA a number of years ago?
I a word, NO! Its not the same. This stuff requires 12-14 jets sizes. In fact, Holley main fuel channels will not flow enough fuel to handle the stuff, and neither will the boosters. Not quite E85 territory flow wise, but damn close, with way more heat energy. Think Q16 on steroids

I am probably already telling too much for this thread, but what the hell, you're never going to get your hands on any, and even if you did, you would think you were buying top quality uncut coke.

LINK: VP PSX-AU



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,793 Posts
Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?
I would run C-14 + :happy:
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Thanks for all the great feedback! My main concern is getting the right fuel for the compression that I run is 15:1. I've heard that c12 is good but may be cutting it close. I've got a couple of buddies that have been using the c12 and have only good things to say. I am runnnig at 7500 rpm with 15:1....thoughts on that combo and C12?
For me, the C-12 is cutting it too close for a true 15:1 big block engine. That should be a lot of cylinder pressure which may be difficult to control the burn rate. What size is the engine? Any idea the cylinder pressure? Any inertia ram effect (tunnel ram), etc? Any use of nitrous?

Octane itself primarily controls or slows the burn rate down on the fuel. Too much octane can slow you down. As one approaches 14:1 and higher on a big block, I move towards the C-14. As one creeps into the 15:1 and higher range I would consider C-14+ (which is C-14 with two additional grams of lead), C-15 (which is a 50/50 mix of C-14 & C-16 and C-16 (good baseline nitrous fuel unless you run multiple fogger stages). The C-14, C-14+ & C-15 are good normally aspirated fuels. The C-16 seems to be more preferable with high boost turbos, blowers and nitrous. These fuels also jump up a tier in pricing from the C-12. About $150 per drum. Although higher, it is much cheaper than a detonated engine.

With 15:1 in the big block, you are also entering the realm of Q-16, an oxygenated fuel that can boost you about 30HP and in the same cost level as the 14, 15, 16 fuels.

Gear
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
I'd put it on VP M5, add another point of compression and stop worrying about. IMO
I have a nice pair of Alky Dominators that are fresh if anyone really wanted to run the M5, which is a power adder version update of the M1 methanol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
For me, the C-12 is cutting it too close for a true 15:1 big block engine. That should be a lot of cylinder pressure which may be difficult to control the burn rate. What size is the engine? Any idea the cylinder pressure? Any inertia ram effect (tunnel ram), etc? Any use of nitrous?

Octane itself primarily controls or slows the burn rate down on the fuel. Too much octane can slow you down. As one approaches 14:1 and higher on a big block, I move towards the C-14. As one creeps into the 15:1 and higher range I would consider C-14+ (which is C-14 with two additional grams of lead), C-15 (which is a 50/50 mix of C-14 & C-16 and C-16 (good baseline nitrous fuel unless you run multiple fogger stages). The C-14, C-14+ & C-15 are good normally aspirated fuels. The C-16 seems to be more preferable with high boost turbos, blowers and nitrous. These fuels also jump up a tier in pricing from the C-12. About $150 per drum. Although higher, it is much cheaper than a detonated engine.

With 15:1 in the big block, you are also entering the realm of Q-16, an oxygenated fuel that can boost you about 30HP and in the same cost level as the 14, 15, 16 fuels.

Gear
Engine is 481 with tunnel ram. I am un certain of cylinder pressure but could take a reading in a couple of weeks. I am not running an nitrous on this set up.
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Can you pull enough fuel through a pair of carbs to run Alky and make some big power without burning it down?? Who set them up?

Pm me a price
Yes. I agree it is a challenge as the circuits need an area approximately 2.3 larger than that of gasoline. These carburetors were built by Bob Oliver of Competition Carburetion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
679 Posts
Used with N2O?

Steven-

I've had more than one person caution me about using nitrous with going to 113. What's the scoop? I have decided against using a dual plate system and will stick with only the fogger. Probably 400hp and under hit.

Will there be issues with 113 and using nitrous?
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Steven-

I've had more than one person caution me about using nitrous with going to 113. What's the scoop? I have decided against using a dual plate system and will stick with only the fogger. Probably 400hp and under hit.

Will there be issues with 113 and using nitrous?
One CAN run nitrous with the 113 and Q16, BUT just as with the engine and carburetor tuning, these fuels carry more oxygen and therefore require the fuel jetting needs to be enriched and the tuning becomes more critical. Personally, if I was only running a small shot, less than 200, then I might work with the oxygenated, but if I were going to run 300 to 500 HP worth of nitrous I would not use an oxygenated fuel. Heck, you will be making your finished HP with the nitrous and by adding that much nitrous to an already big cubic inch engine with big compression you better have a stable fuel in there. If you are running C-12 in your main supply tank to the carbs, I would put at least C-16 in your nitrous supplement tank or if you plan on running nitrous all the time, just run all C-16, but then your fuel expense just took a leap...... But fuel is cheaper than engine damage! As Wildstreak, one of our resident Nitrous Kings stated, "Fuel is the cheapest thing I put in my engine"!

I have one customer that runs a real large cubic inch engine that also has 3 fogger systems. He won't fire the car without C-23 in the tank.

Gear
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
679 Posts
C12 or 113

Will I still be ok with the C12? I can put C16 in the 1 gal cell, no prob. I don't use the N2O that often, but if I wanted to spray 3-400, I don't want to have to change the carbs up radically. Not to mention the mess of THAT I would make!

I get that I would make about 15-20 hp NA more using the 113 than the C12. That part is cool. Guess there's about a 100-200 horse break there; stay around 1200 and run 113, go up to about 1400 and use C12 and C16...but as infrequently as I spray - and how unsafe it will really be to have 1400hp in a gullwing -
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
Steven-

I've had more than one person caution me about using nitrous with going to 113. What's the scoop? I have decided against using a dual plate system and will stick with only the fogger. Probably 400hp and under hit.

Will there be issues with 113 and using nitrous?
Like Gearhead said, you can use 113 and Q16 with NOS. You can use NOS with meth, E85, and even Nitro. But you better know what you are doing because at big power levels, things can get ugly way quicker with a oxy fuel compared to a regular fuel. Like Gearhead posted, with small doses of NOs its not much of a problem. But when you start elevating the spray, its a little tricky and not really worth it. Your Oxy is in the NOS. With big loads you don't really need it in the fuel as well.
For big loads of NOS, there are much better fuels specifically designed for use with NOS. Like VP's NO2.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top