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Well now I've seen everything! You linked to a born again Christian site. So Z, are you rapture ready? :D
 

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Looks like the greedy billionaires are going to fight it out for world economic domination.

Looming Soros Conference Will Focus on Rearranging Global ‘Financial Order’
Capitolist Socialists???? Are you referring to Corporatists (aka Corporate Socialists) or "State Socialism" (which is nothing but a nice modern name for Fascism or National Socialism minus the anti-semetic twist)???

Did you make up the terms Capitolist Fascist and Capitolist Socialist??
The fact that there are corrupt super rich fat cats and corporations in the world, who would use the power of government for their own self intrest, is the main reason that the power of government needs to be strictly limited.
We have all heard of the concept of a seperation of church and state. I think it is just as important for a free society to have a wall of seperation between it's means of production and state...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Capitolist Socialists???? Are you referring to Corporatists (aka Corporate Socialists) or "State Socialism" (which is nothing but a nice modern name for Fascism or National Socialism minus the anti-semetic twist)???

Did you make up the terms Capitolist Fascist and Capitolist Socialist??
The fact that there are corrupt super rich fat cats and corporations in the world, who would use the power of government for their own self intrest, is the main reason that the power of government needs to be strictly limited.
We have all heard of the concept of a seperation of church and state. I think it is just as important for a free society to have a wall of seperation between it's means of production and state...

Of course!!! And I knew I would hear about it from you ;)

The point is, as you said, the people with the wealth will call the shots to their benefit no matter what the political or economic system is. Always have and always will.
Right now it is the socialist Soros types vs the capitalist Koch brother types battling for their version of world economic design.
How will we common people fare under either system or combination thereof is too be seen.
There is a lot of pressure, so something is going to happen one way or the other.

BTW, I do not think government is ever going to become smaller to any large degree.
 

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Of course!!! And I knew I would hear about it from you ;)

The point is, as you said, the people with the wealth will call the shots to their benefit no matter what the political or economic system is. Always have and always will.
Right now it is the socialist Soros types vs the capitalist Koch brother types battling for their version of world economic design.
How will we common people fare under either system or combination thereof is too be seen.
There is a lot of pressure, so something is going to happen one way or the other.

BTW, I do not think government is ever going to become smaller to any large degree.
Well there are 3 other countries you can look at to see how the Soro's model worked. We are the 4th country on his list to bankrupt. So I would say we would be better under the Koch brothers model of capitolism rather than Soro's model of socialist bankruptcy.:)sphss
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well there are 3 other countries you can look at to see how the Soro's model worked. We are the 4th country on his list to bankrupt. So I would say we would be better under the Koch brothers model of capitolism rather than Soro's model of socialist bankruptcy.:)sphss
Could be....
BUT the Chinese model we consumers are all feeding, is based upon nearly slave wages. It seems to be the strongest economic system currently. Anyone volunteering to be a near slave for the good of the American economy? Weakening unions is a step in that direction though :)Unsure.... Think about how the Koch Bros want that to happen:shhh:
 

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The Z mind must indeed be a cluttered up mess if the information coming out is any indicator at all......Good grief, some of the crap you post.

Don't ever go out in he woods and get lost. With your lack of basic logic, you'll be lost forever or eaten by wild animals.....Then again, find a large forest and go for a hike.:)sphss
 

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Could be....
BUT the Chinese model we consumers are all feeding, is based upon nearly slave wages. It seems to be the strongest economic system currently. Anyone volunteering to be a near slave for the good of the American economy? Weakening unions is a step in that direction though :)Unsure.... Think about how the Koch Bros want that to happen:shhh:
If you believe unions keep the middleclass the middleclass you are nuts. The middleclass makes up about 90% of the workforce. Yet the unions are less than 10% of all the working class. that means 90+% of the middleclass is doing so without any union help. So by your way of thinking the middleclass makes up only 10% of the workforce. Wrong. Just look at Az. we are a right to work state and are in far better shape than most of the states that are not right to work states. You live with the premise that if the unions dissapear everybody will be reduced to minimum wage. It has not gone that way in the 50% of states that are right to work now has it ?:)sphss:)sphss
 

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If you believe unions keep the middleclass the middleclass you are nuts.
Are you talking about unions that help their members get better pay and benefits, while making sure they are treated fairly? Yeah, that wouldn't help the middle class. We should do away with unions so there is no one to fight for better benefits and higher wages for the working class. If you cut compensation, the companies would make so much more profit, which would make the owners of the company that much richer. And if the rich people are richer, all that money trickles down to the peons, just like in the theory of trickle down economics. That would make the middle class so much stronger. (In case you counldn't detect the sarcasm, I was trying to lay it on pretty thick):)hand
 

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The Z mind must indeed be a cluttered up mess if the information coming out is any indicator at all......Good grief, some of the crap you post.

Don't ever go out in he woods and get lost. With your lack of basic logic, you'll be lost forever or eaten by wild animals.....Then again, find a large forest and go for a hike.:)sphss
Yeah, those killer rabbits and chipmunks would have a feast on him. :D
 

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Are you talking about unions that help their members get better pay and benefits, while making sure they are treated fairly? Yeah, that wouldn't help the middle class. We should do away with unions so there is no one to fight for better benefits and higher wages for the working class. If you cut compensation, the companies would make so much more profit, which would make the owners of the company that much richer. And if the rich people are richer, all that money trickles down to the peons, just like in the theory of trickle down economics. That would make the middle class so much stronger. (In case you counldn't detect the sarcasm, I was trying to lay it on pretty thick):)hand
You seem to miss the point. How is it that 90% of the middle class is the middle class without union representation ? Seems that the unions make up such a small % of the workforce yet you actually believe they help the other 90% ?:)sphss
 

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You seem to miss the point. How is it that 90% of the middle class is the middle class without union representation ? Seems that the unions make up such a small % of the workforce yet you actually believe they help the other 90% ?:)sphss
Let me ask you this: as union membership increased in the 20th century, did the middle class become bigger, or smaller? As union membership has decreased over the last 30 years, has the middle class gotten wealthier, or not?
 

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Could be....
BUT the Chinese model we consumers are all feeding, is based upon nearly slave wages. It seems to be the strongest economic system currently. Anyone volunteering to be a near slave for the good of the American economy? Weakening unions is a step in that direction though :)Unsure.... Think about how the Koch Bros want that to happen:shhh:
The chinese are moving from pure communism to a system that is euphemistically called "State Capitolism". It is nothing but Fascism under a new name...
 

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Let me ask you this: as union membership increased in the 20th century, did the middle class become bigger, or smaller? As union membership has decreased over the last 30 years, has the middle class gotten wealthier, or not?
I don't think that question can be answered. Mainly because in the past 30 yrs this country has had such a large influx of uneducated(leagal and illeagal) people come into this country that has grown the poor class making the middleclass smaller. Hard to say. But answer this question. Has our manufacturing base been pushed out of this country due to the middle class non union or the unions ? Seems to me that a big part of the middleclass shrinkage has to do with middleclass jobs being lost to forign countries due to union strangleholds on industries making it imposible to compete.. Funny how we used to be union and now we are not yet our payscale and benifits didn't decrease with the exit of the union. Infact they have gone up because we are more profitable without the union and the employee's keep more of thier money.:)sphss
 

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Let me ask you this: as union membership increased in the 20th century, did the middle class become bigger, or smaller?

Bigger. For some inter-related reasons. The # of manufacturing jobs grew, productivity grew, wages grew. The downtrodden worker of the 19th century became the lower middle class post WW2 worker now able to own property, buy a car, send kids to college. Keep in mind this is when the lower classes used to bother to go to work.

As union membership has decreased over the last 30 years, has the middle class gotten wealthier, or not?
No. Those manufacturing jobs were outsourced. If those $10-$20/hr. factory jobs had kept pace with inflation over the past 40 yrs., they'd be $100/hr. jobs now. A global economy has competed wages downward. In other words, the unions priced themselves out of the market. It's a shame. With those jobs gone, the middle class has barely kept even. The lower classes are mostly people who don't work at all, or are unskilled, or some immigrants, families with single parents. The wealthy have done well, and there are more wealthy people.
So we've changed our definition of class quite a bit in the last 100 yrs.
Unions were an integral part of the wealth and optimism of the 50s and 60s. But times change, and it looks like the unions haven't.
 

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Let me ask you this: as union membership increased in the 20th century, did the middle class become bigger, or smaller? As union membership has decreased over the last 30 years, has the middle class gotten wealthier, or not?
The wealthy class has become wealthier and larger.:D
For most of the last 40 years, the middle class has become smaller, however the poverty rate has remained basically static. More people than ever before have moved up into the wealthy class. In fact a little over 10 years ago America became the first society to have more self made weathy folks than wealthy foks with inherited wealth...

Since you like to use questions based on clever correlations, here are a couple for you.
In Mexico labor unions have constitutionally protected roles in making public policy and approx 30% of the Mexican work force is unionized (approx twice the U.S.A.'s rate). How's that been working out for them?

As of a few years ago, approx 50% of all of Mexico's wealth was owned by just 35 families. What have their high rate of unionization and their contitutionally mandated use of their nations resources to redistribute wealth done to help spred their weath?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The Z mind must indeed be a cluttered up mess if the information coming out is any indicator at all......Good grief, some of the crap you post.

Don't ever go out in he woods and get lost. With your lack of basic logic, you'll be lost forever or eaten by wild animals.....Then again, find a large forest and go for a hike.:)sphss

People with cement for brains have always had a difficult time following my abstract thoughts. Sorry, I'll try to keep is simple. Will the " Dick and Jane " level be about right?
No I'm not talking about your favorite porn flick :)hand
 

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The wealthy class has become wealthier and larger.:D
For most of the last 40 years, the middle class has become smaller, however the poverty rate has remained basically static. More people than ever before have moved up into the wealthy class. In fact a little over 10 years ago America became the first society to have more self made weathy folks than wealthy foks with inherited wealth...

Since you like to use questions based on clever correlations, here are a couple for you.
In Mexico labor unions have constitutionally protected roles in making public policy and approx 30% of the Mexican work force is unionized (approx twice the U.S.A.'s rate). How's that been working out for them?

As of a few years ago, approx 50% of all of Mexico's wealth was owned by just 35 families. What have their high rate of unionization and their contitutionally mandated use of their nations resources to redistribute wealth done to help spred their weath?
Trying to compare the US with Mexico is kind of pointless. One country is a third world shithole and the other is an economic powerhouse.
 

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No. Those manufacturing jobs were outsourced. If those $10-$20/hr. factory jobs had kept pace with inflation over the past 40 yrs., they'd be $100/hr. jobs now. A global economy has competed wages downward. In other words, the unions priced themselves out of the market. It's a shame. With those jobs gone, the middle class has barely kept even. The lower classes are mostly people who don't work at all, or are unskilled, or some immigrants, families with single parents. The wealthy have done well, and there are more wealthy people.
So we've changed our definition of class quite a bit in the last 100 yrs.
Unions were an integral part of the wealth and optimism of the 50s and 60s. But times change, and it looks like the unions haven't.
Whether someone makes $30 an hour in a union manufacturing job or $15 an hour in a nonunion manufacturing job, they are both going to have a hard time competing with someone willing to work for $2 an hour at some offshore factory.
 
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