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hi everyone iv been following the American circle boat racing for some time now and have a few questions iv notice since the late 60s you guys have been using the B boat flatbottom hull im curious as to 50 years later with technology thats available and the speeds in witch these boats are doing is to why nobody has come up with a different style of boat that is much safer and more forgiving it seems these flatbottoms are prone to "chiming in" iv watched many videos and been over there to few meetings and it just seems these boats are running on the edge ,dont get me wrong the flatbottom has to be the coolest looking boat out there over here in australia in the last 50 years hull designs have changed to make it more safer and suit the speeds as time went on, at one stage there were several flatbottom hulls but they phased out in the late 80s early 90s but as i said why 50 years later are you guys still running the same style of boat im very curious ?
 

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hi everyone iv been following the American circle boat racing for some time now and have a few questions iv notice since the late 60s you guys have been using the B boat flatbottom hull im curious as to 50 years later with technology thats available and the speeds in witch these boats are doing is to why nobody has come up with a different style of boat that is much safer and more forgiving it seems these flatbottoms are prone to "chiming in" iv watched many videos and been over there to few meetings and it just seems these boats are running on the edge ,dont get me wrong the flatbottom has to be the coolest looking boat out there over here in australia in the last 50 years hull designs have changed to make it more safer and suit the speeds as time went on, at one stage there were several flatbottom hulls but they phased out in the late 80s early 90s but as i said why 50 years later are you guys still running the same style of boat im very curious ?
That's a very good question & one that has been asked for along time. The rules laid down by APBA haven't really changed over the years as well to allow major changes. But I'm not the one to answer this question in depth. Hopefully Dave Rankin will help with this. There's always room for improvement, no matter what it is. I think one of the major reasons for nothing new is co$t. Money over here in boat racing (circle boats) is pretty much non existent. The cost to tool up new molds & actually produce a new hull, then try to market & sell one for a reasonable price ( what's a reasonable price) ain't gonna happen. The new hulls produced today are coming out of molds made by Rusty Biesemeyer & Julian Pettengill/Paul Edwards from 1973/74.... Or copies of a "B" boat design such as Revenge or D'Cucci are also available. I personally would love to see a new design. But like I said, the "R&D" & cost to do that just isn't there...IMO
 

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Actually its not that good of a question, it makes huge assumptions and is not couched with any stats, in essence its the worst kind of emotional assumption. In the abscence of technological refinement (but see K-24) or the full implementation of the capsules and not canopies, you see the same scenario with similar outcomes. Its not about the flat bottom, its about the speed in which technology that could and can save lives is implemented or ignored, as pointed out by GN7 and others in a different thread on helmets.

Can I run aggregate analysis on chine data ie measurements from boats that go over???, No I cant.
 

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Billy King of...

That's a very good question & one that has been asked for along time. The rules laid down by APBA haven't really changed over the years as well to allow major changes. But I'm not the one to answer this question in depth. Hopefully Dave Rankin will help with this. There's always room for improvement, no matter what it is. I think one of the major reasons for nothing new is co$t. Money over here in boat racing (circle boats) is pretty much non existent. The cost to tool up new molds & actually produce a new hull, then try to market & sell one for a reasonable price ( what's a reasonable price) ain't gonna happen. The new hulls produced today are coming out of molds made by Rusty Biesemeyer & Julian Pettengill/Paul Edwards from 1973/74.... Or copies of a "B" boat design such as Revenge or D'Cucci are also available. I personally would love to see a new design. But like I said, the "R&D" & cost to do that just isn't there...IMO
WARNING!!!This may leave a mark!
You know friend, I bow in the presence of your knowledge and skills, BUT,,, I named them: b-boats!!!!! Not B-boats! ya get my drift???
DRIFT: a condition known as, 'out of control sliding to the right while turning left' ! For some circle racers who insist on using hulls that don't turn, they can blame their BOAT when drifting into the faster turning b-boats! OUCH
 

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Billys full of $hit!

Normally I wont comment on things like this but after reading the responses hear I had to agree with you guys as in the fact that BillyB is full of shit and its all about just making the older versions of racing vehicles go faster and improving safety equipment! It has nothing to do AT ALL in making that vehicle handle the speeds with better manners. Guess youll have to click on the attach> to get my point.
 

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So it is agreed. Billy B is full of chit.









:stir:
Been called worse by much better....And so its agreed. Improve the saftey equipment & run the same old dinosaur. Lord knows you can do that in all other forms of motorsports. That's why boat racing will always stay where its at....:))ThumbsDwn
 

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Been called worse by much better....And so its agreed. Improve the saftey equipment & run the same old dinosaur. Lord knows you can do that in all other forms of motorsports. That's why boat racing will always stay where its at....:))ThumbsDwn
Hi Mr.B.:happy:
 

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Been called worse by much better....And so its agreed. Improve the saftey equipment & run the same old dinosaur. Lord knows you can do that in all other forms of motorsports. That's why boat racing will always stay where its at....:))ThumbsDwn

Dinosaur?....you must not be paying attention to whats going on...some folks are spending less on paint and concentrating on performance and safety. Not all of us cheer on the resurection of boats that should be retired, or new builds that use methods and bottom shaping from 25 years ago... some of us are frustrated at the abscence of available hazard data etc etc. You can say dinosaur but you havent been paying attention....or do you mean that all race boats should be v-hull? And to set the record straight my new Revenge is definately a different little beasty. Money exsists to tool new shapes but........

I like your work but I think your initial comment was way off, and i'm not hating on ya either.



Cheers
 

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Circle boats

the circle boats I built in the late 1950s bare hlull were 500#. They were 18'. the power was maybe 400 hp. APBA has deemed circle flat bottom v-drives under 18', even in unlimited class, KRR. The boats have gone to over 120 mph with small block power and 150 with supercharged engines.
ERR
 

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Circle boats

My computer hung up:
ERR 1962-94 MPH SBC
1978-112 MPH
S K 1959-87 MPH HEMI CHRYSLER
1974-120 MPH
KRR 1950-69-MPH
1977-144-MPH

STILL WITH 18' BOATS
How about longer boats with center steer releasable capsules.
HARLAN ORRIN
 

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:stir: Just to stir the pot.......isn't it interesting that the Aussie boys have a TOTALLY different hull design that seems to run around the pins pretty fast. With their rounded chines, they appear to be like a Jersey speed skiff on steroids. They turn completely differenent than a B-boat style flat.
I dig them only cuz I lived down there for a year. Carry on....Jocko
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
please correct me if im wrong but does the side of the boat have to meet the bottom at a 90 degree angle ? our boats over here are not exactly a deep V there a shallow V there are 1 or 2 boats that are running a deepV but at 130mph plus they tend to start rocking side to side will the apba allow for some changes to hulls to make racing safer or if they did and we brought one of our boats over to run lets say superstock would it be one of those things were everyone would want to ban it i think IMO a good way to start would be getting rid of the chimes and having it step down from the side to bottom at a 40 degree angle that way there would be no chiming in ,in corners or down the straight or at anytime
 

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please correct me if im wrong but does the side of the boat have to meet the bottom at a 90 degree angle ? our boats over here are not exactly a deep V there a shallow V there are 1 or 2 boats that are running a deepV but at 130mph plus they tend to start rocking side to side will the apba allow for some changes to hulls to make racing safer or if they did and we brought one of our boats over to run lets say superstock would it be one of those things were everyone would want to ban it i think IMO a good way to start would be getting rid of the chimes and having it step down from the side to bottom at a 40 degree angle that way there would be no chiming in ,in corners or down the straight or at anytime
So you want to run in the GN class then?
 

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WARNING!!!This may leave a mark!
You know friend, I bow in the presence of your knowledge and skills, BUT,,, I named them: b-boats!!!!! Not B-boats! ya get my drift???
DRIFT: a condition known as, 'out of control sliding to the right while turning left' ! For some circle racers who insist on using hulls that don't turn, they can blame their BOAT when drifting into the faster turning b-boats! OUCH
Im going to let u clarify your statement before I go spider monkey on ur a$$. Tread lightly Boyd, I've read your post 4 times and I am holding back until I know what your trying to say.
 

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someofamitch
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:stir: Just to stir the pot.......isn't it interesting that the Aussie boys have a TOTALLY different hull design that seems to run around the pins pretty fast. With their rounded chines, they appear to be like a Jersey speed skiff on steroids. They turn completely differenent than a B-boat style flat.
I dig them only cuz I lived down there for a year. Carry on....Jocko
O, a GN. Cool we got those.
 

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Just Me
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To the OP, I point out that you have obviously only been following a portion of American boat racing. Many facets of boat racing have evolved considerably over the last 40 years. But like all types of racing, if the drivers/owners wish to race older vehicles/vessels there will be a format for them race in. Why just doing a quick search I found people are actually crazy enough to drive antique race cars at potentially lethal speeds. (Proof for those that doubt) dsc7367.jpg . Just like the people that race 60s and 70s vintage flat bottom boats, I guess the people choosing to race old cars just didn't get the memo that you are supposed to retire old race vehicles.

But when it comes to off shore boats, you won't find these competing today. sopwith.JPG You instead find boats like this: 2011-boat-b.jpg .

Why even inboard closed course boats have gone from this shockwave_e105_wyandotte2006.jpg in the early 70s to cc06903d1cd0b145d359f554cfd5e01d.jpg .

Do you really think American boat racing hasn't evolved? If the racers wanted (as in actively pursued) new boats to replace the vintage design of the flat bottoms, the sport would accommodate them. American outboard boat racing has advanced just as much as the inboard hydroplanes and the offshore boats. Many of these new modern boats race under APBA, so it isn't organization that is opposed to change. And hydroplane racing pays out about the same as flat bottom racing, jack squat. So don't blame the prize money and racing venues for the lack of change.
 

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Dinosaur?....you must not be paying attention to whats going on...some folks are spending less on paint and concentrating on performance and safety. Not all of us cheer on the resurection of boats that should be retired, or new builds that use methods and bottom shaping from 25 years ago... some of us are frustrated at the abscence of available hazard data etc etc. You can say dinosaur but you havent been paying attention....or do you mean that all race boats should be v-hull? And to set the record straight my new Revenge is definately a different little beasty. Money exsists to tool new shapes but........

I like your work but I think your initial comment was way off, and i'm not hating on ya either.



Cheers
We can beat this topic to death all you want. SammyphuckingV57's comment is completely off base #1 & unwarranted. You (RPB) saying I'm not paying attention.....oh I pay attention. K-24 is a very nice piece and both Scott & Steve should be very proud of there piece. If $$$$ is out there, in this sport, in the U.S.A, then why does the capsule mandate keep getting moved back? I never said the technology for safety isn't there. I never once said people aren't making improvements on the safety side. I was just merely giving my opinion. And coming up with a new design boat, built around a capsule, what would be wrong with that? And you may be doing that with your "New Revenge", but at the end of the day, its still a bottom design from 40+ yrs ago.....

And I'm not hating on you either....:)devil
 
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