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Screamin SeaMonkees
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Discussion Starter #1
I am paid to perform a job or function. I am paid to acheive accurate, timely results. I am compensated based on my ability to overcome problems and correct same.

I am not paid to wait for a customer to call. If I am not in the performance of my duties I do not get paid.

I am self employed. It is a corporation that employs me. I (the corporation has) have three employees. We travel the western US working on-site at customer's locations.

I see this as Performance/Reults driven compensation.
I think teachers should be paid/compensated similarly.
 

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Anybody that's self employed operates by that philosophy. Your preaching to the choir, because very few that rely on their paycheck to be provided by the taxpayers have any clue what your actually talking about. How many of these teachers do you see jumping ship to head out into the private sector?
 

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Screamin SeaMonkees
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Discussion Starter #3
This thread was in response to T&Y's reluctance to converse on another thread. He suggested I start my own thread and not hijack the school teacher's salary thread.

I was posting and waiting for him to respond in kind.
 

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Red Blooded American
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Like most of our liberals here, he will refuse to elaborate on what his job is, what duties he performs and how they benefit mankind. We, self employed have always been paid exactly what we've earned. No more - No less and we look to nobody else to provide our wages through life as we create the wages we receive.

Expecting a government worker to understand how we are paying their salaries is like explaining calculus equations to a pine tree. hil:)
 

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Wow you guys really like to kiss eachother asses don't you:)gay:(

Yeah dude I told you if you wanted to discuss it further then either PM me or start another thread about LEO which is what you apparently think you are a expert on because your DADDY was a fireman:notsure: I just found this thread, sorry if you were sitting around chomping at the bit lolol.

I am paid to perform a job or function. I am paid to acheive accurate, timely results. I am compensated based on my ability to overcome problems and correct same.

I am not paid to wait for a customer to call. If I am not in the performance of my duties I do not get paid.
You might want to sit down for this one. I am paid to do both, so I guess you only have half the responsiblity I do huh??? :D

Now of course because your father was a fireman back in the day you already know all of this, but you asked so I will repeat it for you.

As a Law Enforcement officer I am tasked with the responsibility to enforce the law. Crazy I know. That means as soon as I hit the go button on my mobile terminal/computer I am waiting for a call for service while at the same time actively looking for crimes in progress. In fact, there are many times when I'm not in a radio call car, and my only job is to go out and target specific areas for specific types of crimes or focus on specific member of society. You have to be self motivated in this line of work to go out create work for yourself. Once you find that work, you have to make sure you are still in good "legal standing" while considering constantly changing case law so you don't end up in Federal Prison. In laymen’s terms, that means I am paid to perform a job or function. I am paid to achieve accurate, timely results. I am compensated based on my ability to overcome problems and correct same. Wow what a shocker. Here's the other part of the job.. At times I am also paid to wait for a "customer" to call.


I am self employed. It is a corporation that employs me. I (the corporation has) have three employees. We travel the western US working on-site at customer's locations.

I see this as Performance/Reults driven compensation.
I think teachers should be paid/compensated similarly.
That's great. Whatever you chose to do with your life is your choice. Just don't think your an expert on everyone else because of it.

Hey Doc: I gotta give it to you... Pulling the never heard of "I pay your salary" line. News flash, you also pay the burger flippers salary, the long-shoremans salary, each and every employee of the company of whatever type of car you purchased. Did you have and actual point in saying that? Or is it just one of those things that makes you feel better to say?
 

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Red Blooded American
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Hey Doc: I gotta give it to you... Pulling the never heard of "I pay your salary" line. News flash, you also pay the burger flippers salary, the long-shoremans salary, each and every employee of the company of whatever type of car you purchased. Did you have and actual point in saying that? Or is it just one of those things that makes you feel better to say?
I am mandated to pay your salary without choice through taxation. Every other one you mentioned is voluntary and a choice I have or will make only after careful consideration.

The chip on your shoulder makes a lot more sense now.
News Flash! I love my employment choice and don't blame anyone else when comparing it to other occupations and I absolutely will never need a union to help me negotiate my value to society. It seems you can't say that and are just finishing your time awaiting retirement and pension to kick in. I can appreciate that as your choice but don't hold a grudge against me because you made that choice. My field is wide open and anyone can be licensed in a few weeks so come take my spot but don't whine because I do, in fact, pay your salary. Thank me instead. You are welcome sir and thank you for your service. It's something I wouldn't do and I sincerely appreciate your choice to serve.
 

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I am mandated to pay your salary without choice through taxation. Every other one you mentioned is voluntary and a choice I have or will make only after careful consideration.

The chip on your shoulder makes a lot more sense now.
News Flash! I love my employment choice and don't blame anyone else when comparing it to other occupations and I absolutely will never need a union to help me negotiate my value to society. It seems you can't say that and are just finishing your time awaiting retirement and pension to kick in. I can appreciate that as your choice but don't hold a grudge against me because you made that choice. My field is wide open and anyone can be licensed in a few weeks so come take my spot but don't whine because I do, in fact, pay your salary. Thank me instead. You are welcome sir and thank you for your service. It's something I wouldn't do and I sincerely appreciate your choice to serve.

Chip on my shoulder? I think it's more like if someone has differing views than you and a few others they are automatically labeled a Liberal and have an obvious chip on their shoulder. Typing back and forth on here is pure humor for me. I've been in the business long enough to have heard everything you have typed so it's not a surprise.

Finishing my time, hardly. I still plan on working another 20 or so years in this profession and moving onto something else after that. I have actually considered doing your job on the side. Prior to doing this I ran lumberyards and put myself through school. Nothing has been handed to me. You don't know shit about me so don't bother trying to preach about my career choice. I don't preach about yours.

Our main difference in here today is you are obviously anti-union. I am not. I too recognize that unions have gotten out of control and there obviously need to be cut backs in certain areas. They do not need to be eliminated. That also does not mean that just because your career choice took a dump that everyone else’s needs to follow. Maybe you are more about distribution of wealth than you admit .

By the way, my job requirements have only risen over these last few years. My work load has increased if anything and I have not had a raise for quit sometime. Do you see me complaining about that on here, or blaming it on and elected official?
 

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Once Again! Every and All Government employees should realize that this process of collective bargaining, as it is usually understood !SHOULD NOT be transplanted into the public service Sector.
 

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Screamin SeaMonkees
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
T&Y

This was never about you.
You aligned yourself with the striking teachers. I don't believe you are in the same catagory. They, the teachers, should be paid on merit. You and the firefighters are paid on a standby basis.

My history as a son of a firefighter/union president was to shed light on the fact that I know you are a public servant. Teachers are not public servants. Don't align yourself with criminals and claim they are righteous in their efforts because they are in a union.

I did not mean to make this about you. I don't know you. I know the situation, though.
 

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This was never about you.
You aligned yourself with the striking teachers. I don't believe you are in the same catagory. They, the teachers, should be paid on merit. You and the firefighters are paid on a standby basis.

My history as a son of a firefighter/union president was to shed light on the fact that I know you are a public servant. Teachers are not public servants. Don't align yourself with criminals and claim they are righteous in their efforts because they are in a union.

I did not mean to make this about you. I don't know you. I know the situation, though.
All right buddy if you say so. At least it was entertaining for a bit.
 

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Just Me
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Unions in civil service jobs is the most oximoronic thing that has ever happened. Name one thing that the Union gives to the city. A police officer going on strike should be fired no questions asked as should a fireman. The job of a police officer is to protect and serve. Not to withhold service until they get paid more money. There are two types of unions, type one provides a standard and quality of work in exchange for the opportunity to represent the employees. This is the good kind of union. Type two, represents the employees and gives nothing back to the employer. This type union does collect healthy union dues from the employees and holds the collective size of the employees over the employers head. An employer can't fire someone, they can't increase production or do any of the managerial tasks normally associated with running a business unless they run it by the union first and for all this they get nothing back. For a civil servant to put the public at risk because the union says strike they have committed an act of criminal neglect. What it will probably take to fix that problem is for someone to get charged and prosecuted. But that puts the employee taking all the risks. The union just sits back and makes money for themselves.
And just because some police officers work diligently at performing their job doesn't mean all of them do. So why should they all get the same raise?
 

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"On the road again..."
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Unions for a large part have become just another buiness seeking to add members they can lobby for and take a percentage of the profits (wages/benefit costs) resulting from their negotiating efforts and buying governmental support.

A prime example of businesses in the USA that have proven the modern union unnecessary are the foreign owned auto makers. They have satisfied employees working under better conditions as far as facilities and technological amenities are concerned, and those employees are making good wages without union intervention.

The outdated concept of unions being necessary to protect the employee from harsh unfair conditions is past. Government regualtions and OSHA pretty much cover working conditions so what exactly do unions accomplish???????
 

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You guys are all pretty quick to follow the government will screw you type mentality. Do you not see where a union for a state employee is necessary to protect the state workers from their employer? They don't have "Private Police" out here. If you are a cop you are employed by the state/county/city and have to deal directly with them in regards to your job and benefits. The union in those cases does what it is supposed to do.
 

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Wow you guys really like to kiss eachother asses don't you:)gay:(

Yeah dude I told you if you wanted to discuss it further then either PM me or start another thread about LEO which is what you apparently think you are a expert on because your DADDY was a fireman:notsure: I just found this thread, sorry if you were sitting around chomping at the bit lolol.



You might want to sit down for this one. I am paid to do both, so I guess you only have half the responsiblity I do huh??? :D

Now of course because your father was a fireman back in the day you already know all of this, but you asked so I will repeat it for you.

As a Law Enforcement officer I am tasked with the responsibility to enforce the law. Crazy I know. That means as soon as I hit the go button on my mobile terminal/computer I am waiting for a call for service while at the same time actively looking for crimes in progress. In fact, there are many times when I'm not in a radio call car, and my only job is to go out and target specific areas for specific types of crimes or focus on specific member of society. You have to be self motivated in this line of work to go out create work for yourself. Once you find that work, you have to make sure you are still in good "legal standing" while considering constantly changing case law so you don't end up in Federal Prison. In laymen’s terms, that means I am paid to perform a job or function. I am paid to achieve accurate, timely results. I am compensated based on my ability to overcome problems and correct same. Wow what a shocker. Here's the other part of the job.. At times I am also paid to wait for a "customer" to call.




That's great. Whatever you chose to do with your life is your choice. Just don't think your an expert on everyone else because of it.

Hey Doc: I gotta give it to you... Pulling the never heard of "I pay your salary" line. News flash, you also pay the burger flippers salary, the long-shoremans salary, each and every employee of the company of whatever type of car you purchased. Did you have and actual point in saying that? Or is it just one of those things that makes you feel better to say?

If your such an independent thinker, why don't you go arrest some illegal aliens. Face reality, your just some politicians bitch.
 

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You guys are all pretty quick to follow the government will screw you type mentality. Do you not see where a union for a state employee is necessary to protect the state workers from their employer? They don't have "Private Police" out here. If you are a cop you are employed by the state/county/city and have to deal directly with them in regards to your job and benefits. The union in those cases does what it is supposed to do.
Protect them? From what? Bush,Corporations, The Booggey man? The Tax Payer?
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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You guys are all pretty quick to follow the government will screw you type mentality. Do you not see where a union for a state employee is necessary to protect the state workers from their employer? They don't have "Private Police" out here. If you are a cop you are employed by the state/county/city and have to deal directly with them in regards to your job and benefits. The union in those cases does what it is supposed to do.
I disagree.
This is one of those examples I spoke of where the union has become ingrained, and it is near impossible to think of the career without union representation.
Imagine what the cost of union administration is.
What if even 25% of that cost was distributed to YOU and your' coworkers through wage package, and the union disbanded?
Tex is correct, the unions are an industry in and of themselves.
 

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Unions in civil service jobs is the most oximoronic thing that has ever happened. Name one thing that the Union gives to the city. A police officer going on strike should be fired no questions asked as should a fireman. The job of a police officer is to protect and serve. Not to withhold service until they get paid more money. There are two types of unions, type one provides a standard and quality of work in exchange for the opportunity to represent the employees. This is the good kind of union. Type two, represents the employees and gives nothing back to the employer. This type union does collect healthy union dues from the employees and holds the collective size of the employees over the employers head. An employer can't fire someone, they can't increase production or do any of the managerial tasks normally associated with running a business unless they run it by the union first and for all this they get nothing back. For a civil servant to put the public at risk because the union says strike they have committed an act of criminal neglect. What it will probably take to fix that problem is for someone to get charged and prosecuted. But that puts the employee taking all the risks. The union just sits back and makes money for themselves.
And just because some police officers work diligently at performing their job doesn't mean all of them do. So why should they all get the same raise?
And just because some dont dosent mean they all dont. Im for pay by performance %100 but to listen to you guys villify public servants the way you do is boarderline mind numbing. I bust my ass to keep the public safe and get compisated fairly according to my skill set, qualifications and experience. %75 of the workforce out there could not do what my crew and I do for the safety of the public and a daily basis. BUT if the union told me to strike, Id tell em to pound sand, Ive got a family to feed.
 

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This discussion and others sure is an indication of some deep fractures in American society. School Teachers, Cops, and Fireman in addition to other organized workers were always very well respected in American society. Now it seems some think they are maybe a notch above homeless illegal aliens !! The Rush Limbaugh corporate capitalist propaganda stooge types have distorted reality with their anti-union blather spewing hate and more hate 24/7. The big economic bubble of greed fueled selling/consumption, banking practices, and borrowing madly has burst. As a result we regular Americans are at each other's throats blaming one another. No good will come of this. The babbling haters like Limbaugh, Beck, Savage , Hannity, etc are loud mouth do nothing shit stirring pukes who are destroying this nation by being divisive. Listening to them is toxic.
 
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