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Discussion Starter #1
First off I'm not going to say what heads they are so there wont be any brand bashing, but there NOT ProComps. And the seller is standing behind them and buying them back, so I got REALLY lucky there.

I found a crack on some heads I bought and I would like some opinions on what might have caused it or if its just a head design issue, I dont want to get another set if its a design issue. They are aftermarket aluminum BBC heads.
What was found was a crack in the intake valve spring area that goes from the valve guide straight towards the rocker stud, its visibly all the way through the spring area and visible in the intake port. Is this an area thats prone to crack ? To much spring pressure for this head ? There are a few other areas (under other valve springs) that dont have big cracks, but they look funny, kinda like a bunch of small stress cracks, Also, the heads where not ported at all in that area of the port.

I can post pics if needed, but it looks like a crack. :p
 

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Sorry. My eyes ain't as good as they used to be. Thought you were getting ready to rant on one of yo beatches. I was goin to jump in with ya. Mine is out of line right now as well.

Oh Ya. Post a pic of the head. Did you take them apart? Were all of the parts there and where the go?? If it is the head I am thinking of the were cast very thin and did not work with big cams. Also the metal was not of good quality. I am sure Ol Number 7 will set us straight.
 

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Its only a problem with Procomp heads sold under another name. Like Strike Force, CGM, KMJ, god only knows how many other names. You seem certain they aren't Procomps, but don't say what they are. Only Procomp is ashamed to put their name on their heads. Well that and it allows 100 other venders to sell them as "their" head. If they aren't ProComps, they will have it right there on the head in big ass letters. So why the mysterious guessing game.

Just about any real alumn head can handle more spring pressure than you are throwing at them.
Did you buy these heads used? Maybe he wacked a valve and just threw a new bronze guide and new valve in them. And along the head was cracked.

If he is giving your money back, why are you so sold on that design? There are lots of head manufactures out there. Something special about this company?



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AKA Blownjet 468
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are these heads mostly seen on ebay? just say what brand they are, if they are ching-chows, you know your gonna hear it,
if their of a reputable manufacturer, you might actually get some good info on the problem!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Heres the pics,
From the top


In the port


The other spring areas, notice around the top area in the spring area. funny looking little cracks ??


I'm not trying make a "mysterious guessing game" gn7, just dont want to start a bashing thread when it might or might not be a design problem with the heads. The others involved with these heads (seller and builder are members here and will speak up if they feel the brand should be revealed). There is a name on them and its not anything you listed.

Yes I bought them used, one season on them.

The only other heads I have heard of this happening to are ProComps and it would be sad to know these are the same casting.
 

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AKA Blownjet 468
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got a pic of the intake port?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
got a pic of the intake port?
Second pic is the intake port, valve removed pic taken into port from valve side. Crack is about dead center in the pic, the dark line.

I guess what I'm after here is this, is there a reason a head would crack like this ? Damage from a valve being wacked like gn7 mentioned ? Other reason ? Or are they really just junk castings like ProComps ?
 

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AKA Blownjet 468
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Second pic is the intake port, valve removed pic taken into port from valve side. Crack is about dead center in the pic, the dark line.

I guess what I'm after here is this, is there a reason a head would crack like this ? Damage from a valve being wacked like gn7 mentioned ? Other reason ? Or are they really just junk castings like ProComps ?
IF you tell us what brand they are, you will know if they are junk castings or not! don't know if Steel has seen this yet, but he's the only one I know of
that has worked over a set of the "other questional brand" out there, and might have some imput on this........
 

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Living in a cage of fear
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My guess? Improper guide installation. The guides have 2 different diameter ends. If you drive the guide in "upside down" the press fit can be wrong, resulting in a crack exactly like that.
 

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steelcomp was here
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My guess? Improper guide installation. The guides have 2 different diameter ends. If you drive the guide in "upside down" the press fit can be wrong, resulting in a crack exactly like that.
What the heck are you talking about?
 

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steelcomp was here
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These are the Patriots I did for Nelson. They're just junk heads. They're dead soft, and without cutting one apart to see what the casting thickness is around the spring pads and port walls, it's hard to tell why they cracked. The guides were all replaced when they were new (because the guides they came with were so badly oversized) and were installed correctly, like the thousands of other guides I've installed or replaced in aluminum heads. I instsalled the helicoil (that you PM'd me about) while the head was on the engine, and I don't know about being short or crooked. That's nonsense. How can a "short" helicoil prevent a fastener from being screwed in? And off by 1/4"...lol...I don't thik so.
Really sorry you had to go through this, but fortunately, you got your money back. Nelson's getting a new set of heads. Neither he or I knew what condition these heads might be in, and I'm pretty sure you were told that. Just the way it works in this business sometimes. Funny thing is, Patriot got their money and never looked back, but just about everyone who was down hill of that got screwed.
 

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AKA Blownjet 468
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that's exactly the head I was thinking! told you Steel would answer the question!
 

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well, these PATRIOTS have been a nightmare since the get go. the first set showed up with big issues, so they were returned (on my dollar) and replaced with a new set, that had its own issues.

tried to deal with patriot to get some reembursment for the time and money i wasted with these, but along the way, the guy we were dealing with magically stopped working for patriot. he sounded as if he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and i think he took a walk.

the heads would not accept the parts, they claimed they would, from the get go. rocker stud geometry was off, so rockers were off, and standard stud girdles would not work. we had to use ford rockers to get proper geometry, and the stud girdles were seperate (intake and exhaust). as soon as i tried to put some time on them, shit started breaking. first rockers. upgraded them, then studs broke. pulled one of the studs threads while trying to torque it (replacing broken studs). realized then that these were very soft.

we never found a smoking gun as to what caused all the problems, but we know the studs were moving! we know the stud geometry was off! we know the aluminum was junk! and we know patriots customer service and pride of their product is dog shit!

i have taken it in the ass from these heads from day one. i knew they might not work out for propless, so i told him i would buy them back if for any reason he couldnt use them.

stay tuned for the next chapter in the life of my PATRIOTS, im not done with them yet.

if procomps are worse than PATRIOT heads, then no one should ever consider using them, not even if they were free, and come with a life time supply of hookers & blowjobs.

BTW, these heads have 34 hrs of run time on them!!!! the rest of the engine was perfect when it came apart.

if i lived closer to PATRIOTS hideout, id send them through the presidents window with a nice note "thank you for stealing from me asshole", " can you please come over this weekend and kick me in the balls for a few hrs? and dont forget to cut my throat on your way out"

its ****ed up companys like this, that are killing this country. they are stealing from a dying country.

note to everyone!!! please add patriot cylinder heads to your (people not to buy quality parts from) list.

ok, time to plan my next PATRIOT adventure.
 

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steelcomp was here
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Never mind, I was talking about the exhaust side. (water jacket)
These guides don't have different diameters, and it's impossible to install them in the wrong direction, intake or exhaust. I think you're thinking of stock GM heads.
 

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YEP. I have seen the PROSTAR heads bust out there. And like was said earlier they are "PROCOMP". The one that busted out was a big roller cam with over 800 lift.
 

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These guides don't have different diameters, and it's impossible to install them in the wrong direction, intake or exhaust. I think you're thinking of stock GM heads.
Yep! Sorry.
 

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YEP. I have seen the PROSTAR heads bust out there. And like was said earlier they are "PROCOMP". The one that busted out was a big roller cam with over 800 lift.
i dont remember it being said earlier, maybe questioned earlier; but are you saying the patriot freedom head is a re labeled procomp?

btw, this was less than 700 lift, but it was 15 lbs of boost, at 6200 rpm.
 

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Evilforce is a little confused. Patriots ARE NOT ProComps. ProComps are a direct copy, although very badly copied, from the RHS/ProTopLine head. I felt like Steel did, that this head had the potential to be a decent head for use on anything less than a full race effort. They are cast in China, and machined here. The company has made a pretty god name for itself in the SBC and even more so in the cammer Ford groups. Very surprised too see this. I wonder what the manufacture wouls say if they saw them.
The alloy hardness and strength thing is something I feel is going to plaque anything alum from china. There just isn't anything they can consider 356 T6 virgin over there.
I hope any company considering having heads cast over there has all their ducks in a row when it comes to QC, because it will show up sooner or later.

PS I don't think the line in the port is a crack. Looks more like a lap in the casting. And it doesn't line up with the crank in the spring seat. And the two surface are seperated by a water jacket.

If those are in fact little cracks in the surface of the spring seat, I would have to question the heat treat.
No matter who ends up with the heads, I would send em back and see what they say. This company isn't ProComp. They do (did) seem to actually care and seemed to want to supply a good part.

Reguardless, thanks to Nelson, Steel and Propless, for sharing this. We all learn. If you do in fact sent that head back to Patriot, let us know how that turns out.



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