Forget this please 
Crower style stack injection MFI
I bought a Crower MFI set up that was listed as being complete, minus hoses, set up for alcohol, completely rebuilt by Kinsler (except the Crower mechanical fuel pump). It also came with a couple of books/catalogs from Kinsler.
Problem's. One problem is that in the books there isn't a plumbing schematic that shows all of the parts that I have. I don't even know if I need all of the parts that I have. A couple of the parts I don't know what they are. I saw a flathead Ford powered altered at the Antique Drags the other day and that flathead didn't have near the components in his Hilborn MFI that I have, so why do I need them? I don't know what fuel he was running. Another problem, typical for me, is I can't make up my mind on what fuel to run. Avgas, E85, 110, and alcohol are all under consideration. Oh yea, 13:1 468 BBC, tunnel jet drive.
I've got countless numbers of people telling me that I am going to have nothing but problems with this set up and that it will never run correctly. ALL of the people that have said that to me have never owned a MFI.
I've gotten a few people to PM/call me and tell me that once it's dialed in I will be very happy with it. ALL of the people that have said that to me have owned MFI stack systems.
Anywho, here's some pics. The first pic is of my MFI, just so we're on the same page. Second pic is a Kinsler drawing of a old method of plumbing a MFI. Third pic is of a "new" preferred method of plumbing a MFI. Fourth pic is of a plumbing schematic for a Vapor Sepearator Tank that I have. Last pic is plumbing schematic for a Jet Selector Switch that I have.
More pics and questions to follow. Hopefully the pics work and aren't too big.
Problem's. One problem is that in the books there isn't a plumbing schematic that shows all of the parts that I have. I don't even know if I need all of the parts that I have. A couple of the parts I don't know what they are. I saw a flathead Ford powered altered at the Antique Drags the other day and that flathead didn't have near the components in his Hilborn MFI that I have, so why do I need them? I don't know what fuel he was running. Another problem, typical for me, is I can't make up my mind on what fuel to run. Avgas, E85, 110, and alcohol are all under consideration. Oh yea, 13:1 468 BBC, tunnel jet drive.
I've got countless numbers of people telling me that I am going to have nothing but problems with this set up and that it will never run correctly. ALL of the people that have said that to me have never owned a MFI.
I've gotten a few people to PM/call me and tell me that once it's dialed in I will be very happy with it. ALL of the people that have said that to me have owned MFI stack systems.
Anywho, here's some pics. The first pic is of my MFI, just so we're on the same page. Second pic is a Kinsler drawing of a old method of plumbing a MFI. Third pic is of a "new" preferred method of plumbing a MFI. Fourth pic is of a plumbing schematic for a Vapor Sepearator Tank that I have. Last pic is plumbing schematic for a Jet Selector Switch that I have.
More pics and questions to follow. Hopefully the pics work and aren't too big.
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First off, I can tell you this..... I don't know shit about MFI (surprise) but I've had two friends run them and then remove them after fighting with them for two or three year's. With both guy's there were big changes with the system's from a 90* morning to a 110-112* degree afternoon. Just to much for them to fight with.
Since you are in El Cajon call or go see Greg at Total Performance on Prospect in Santee 619-562-9894. Both Greg and Mike there have had experience with the system's and should be able to help. I'd be surprised if they can't.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Since you are in El Cajon call or go see Greg at Total Performance on Prospect in Santee 619-562-9894. Both Greg and Mike there have had experience with the system's and should be able to help. I'd be surprised if they can't.
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
First pic. I'm calling this part a fuel log. Why does it have two ports and what are they for? Which port is which? (Edit: Part is called a barell valve, port pointing straight up is inlet, port pointing away from distributor on a BBC is outlet)
Second and third pics. My Crower F1 mechanical fuel pump.
Fourth and fith pics. Jet Selector Switch.
Second and third pics. My Crower F1 mechanical fuel pump.
Fourth and fith pics. Jet Selector Switch.
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Thanks Sleeper CP
Next two pics up is a Alky/Nitro filter. (Edit: for the fuel pump's outlet side)
Third is the Back Pressure Valve. (Used with Vapor Separator/Pressure tank)
Fourth is a Economiser Valve.
Fith is a High Flow Valve.
Next two pics up is a Alky/Nitro filter. (Edit: for the fuel pump's outlet side)
Third is the Back Pressure Valve. (Used with Vapor Separator/Pressure tank)
Fourth is a Economiser Valve.
Fith is a High Flow Valve.
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The "dial-a-jet" will or should help a lot. What size engine do you plan on putting this on ?
Sorry about that 468.....Hummmmm
Sleeper CP
Sorry about that 468.....Hummmmm
Sleeper CP
Next up is a Secondary Jet Valve.
Next two pics are of my Vapor Separator Tank. You can see and read the tag on it, it says something along the lines of "this top most outlet..." well that isn't wired to the top most outlet, so is it a typo or is it tagged on the incorrect port?
Next two pics are of my Vapor Separator Tank. You can see and read the tag on it, it says something along the lines of "this top most outlet..." well that isn't wired to the top most outlet, so is it a typo or is it tagged on the incorrect port?
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13:1 468 BBC
Lastly is some pics of the two parts that I don't know what they are or what they're for. I'm guessing one of them is a filter for gasoline use but that is definately a guess.
The first three pics are of the same part.
Lastly is some pics of the two parts that I don't know what they are or what they're for. I'm guessing one of them is a filter for gasoline use but that is definately a guess.
The first three pics are of the same part.
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So I'm also guessing that the more parts that I use the more "tuneable" it will be. Instruction book is thick which isn't helping me at all, but if I wanted simple I guess I should have put my cash into a more common system, like a Dominator or something.
I know there are a few on here that have successfully run this type of system. I need some feedback from you guys, please.
I know there are a few on here that have successfully run this type of system. I need some feedback from you guys, please.
I saw a gloss back jet boat out at El Cap one evening, tunnel hull with red or purple trim on the engine and everything else all black, running an MFI. It sounded real good. He was with a couple of other "heavy hitting" looking boats also. I know I've seen a pic of that gloss black boat on this forum but I haven't been able to find it since I first saw it. I'd love to pic that guys brain or crawl all over his boat, or both.... Since you are in El Cajon...
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover
Thread jacking my own thread
st That bitchin black boat pic, off of another forum.Attachments
I have run nothing but MFI for the last dozen or so years on multiple cars. It takes a little bit to get it right, but once you get it you just leave it.
Please e-mail me direct and I will look over your numbers. I will need the number stamped on the injectors, and a good picture of the casting numbers/letters on the pump. Then read the number stamped on the end of the barrel valve spool. The tricks to this set-up are getting the barrel valve ramp machined to match the fuel and the engine application. That is where lots of people get lost. Then just match the pump output to what the engine wants with a main bypass. After that it is just all fine tuning.
Alcohol would be my 2nd choice, with E85 a neck ahead if it is available in your area. It is not in mine
Please e-mail me direct and I will look over your numbers. I will need the number stamped on the injectors, and a good picture of the casting numbers/letters on the pump. Then read the number stamped on the end of the barrel valve spool. The tricks to this set-up are getting the barrel valve ramp machined to match the fuel and the engine application. That is where lots of people get lost. Then just match the pump output to what the engine wants with a main bypass. After that it is just all fine tuning.
Alcohol would be my 2nd choice, with E85 a neck ahead if it is available in your area. It is not in mine
Hey hot rod, m.f.i. is so simple once you grasp the idea. You have three bypasses for off-on throttle and response if you are going to cruise the boat and occassionly want to hammer down, if it is a drag boat and w.o.t. is all you are concerned about then thats different. Expanation in simplest terms. Those would be bypass valves and they do just that they bypass feul back to the tank in relation to the rpm and pressure delivered by the mechanical pump.( the only thing the pump feels rpm it is being turn and will deliver the feul to the injector BARREL VALVE which distributs the feul to each NOZZLE in the stacks. Which is regulated by the speed and preesure forced by the mechanical pump. Now comes the tune part,and its easier than people think. First of all you decide which feul you are going to run and make sure the nozzles are for that distribution. Then you call Crower or Steve Kinsler and ask for a base line to start. FOLLOW IT! they will give such things as spring pressure in the bypasses and shim thicknesses and a PILL to start.(pill being your'e jet size. Put that pill in the center of your'e dial a pill and go LIGHTLY up and down. Take the boat out see how it acts at idle, mid-range and w.o.t. then you play with each. I.E. Idles fat Take a shim out let more fuel back to tank. Mid, Boat surges and acts starved put a shim in hold more fuel. W.O.T. Boat gets to a certain rpm and NOSES-OVER Or stops pulling before you think it should (starving) Step up the pill, Boat LAYS DOWN AND BLUBBERS . back off on the pill. NOW COMES THE FUN PART. remember by going larger on the jet you are sending more feul back to the tank in which you are leaning the boat down. Smaller the jet the more the engine gets. YOU MUST ALWAYS remember it is a forced feul system. Once you grasp that idea and learn to tune it the M.F.I. can be extremely fun and more responsive than any carb boat I ever tuned. Lots of info I know but I had a UBFJ back when I raced. MThanks Sleeper CP
Next two pics up is a Alky/Nitro filter.
Third is the Back Pressure Valve.
Fourth is a Economiser Valve.
Fith is a High Flow Valve.
Excellant replies! Thanks.
Picking my fuel. The boat is a lake boat, hopefully will haul some assh, so I'm considering fuel consumption but I don't want to cut myself too short worried about fuel consumption, so if I'm gaining ? a lot ? of HP by going to alcohol or E85 then that's what I'll go with. Does running alcohol or E85 "garuantee" more HP or? I have E85 near me and I can take some fuel jugs with me when I go to the water. The injection unit is now set up for alcohol but I don't know yet what I would have to change for my application.
But, alcohol and E85 is run a lot fatter than race gas and they will definately use a lot more fuel. When it gets to the point of going to the sandbar and having to turn around to go refuel that's not what I'm looking for. I'm also not looking to go to Martinez and running the thing all the way up to Walter's Camp without refueling either (a long way). I've been told that alcohol attracts water and evaporates quickly, I'm not sure if that's the best choice for a lake boat. I've been told that if there is a alcohol or E85 fire that there are no visible flames, I'm not too sure how much I like that idea either.
So that's why I'm "on the fence" about picking my fuel, I don't have enough info yet.
So it seems that's my next step is to figure out my plan further and decide on a fuel and stick with my plan. Then it seems a call to Kinsler is in order so we can figure out what I have and what I need.
I left the books out instead of repacking them up so I could read more on it and hopefully more will sink in. I'm stoked I got some great feedback on this thread. devil
Picking my fuel. The boat is a lake boat, hopefully will haul some assh, so I'm considering fuel consumption but I don't want to cut myself too short worried about fuel consumption, so if I'm gaining ? a lot ? of HP by going to alcohol or E85 then that's what I'll go with. Does running alcohol or E85 "garuantee" more HP or? I have E85 near me and I can take some fuel jugs with me when I go to the water. The injection unit is now set up for alcohol but I don't know yet what I would have to change for my application.
But, alcohol and E85 is run a lot fatter than race gas and they will definately use a lot more fuel. When it gets to the point of going to the sandbar and having to turn around to go refuel that's not what I'm looking for. I'm also not looking to go to Martinez and running the thing all the way up to Walter's Camp without refueling either (a long way). I've been told that alcohol attracts water and evaporates quickly, I'm not sure if that's the best choice for a lake boat. I've been told that if there is a alcohol or E85 fire that there are no visible flames, I'm not too sure how much I like that idea either.
So that's why I'm "on the fence" about picking my fuel, I don't have enough info yet.
So it seems that's my next step is to figure out my plan further and decide on a fuel and stick with my plan. Then it seems a call to Kinsler is in order so we can figure out what I have and what I need.
I left the books out instead of repacking them up so I could read more on it and hopefully more will sink in.
I'm stoked I got some great feedback on this thread. devil
Hey hot rod, ALL good questions and extremily viable, Fire, true alcohol burn with zero color. FIX and what I did,add 1 pint marvel mystery oil to 20 gals alcohol burn orange and gives a dark smoke and will help injectors and pump and nozzles. Water YES alcohol attracts water big time but the previos mentioned helps that. I would go to a race and never drain or worry about that, But would drain feul system and injector the spray with ATF till next time out. NOW price go check a drum of race feul and a drum of alcohol. You can still do the injectors with feul and loose the water deal and tuning stays the same. Less maintainance with feul. Alcohol likes alot of compreesion and cylinder temp so for a lake boat I would stick with the gas and tune as iI stated. MExcellant replies! Thanks.
Picking my fuel. The boat is a lake boat, hopefully will haul some assh, so I'm considering fuel consumption but I don't want to cut myself too short worried about fuel consumption, so if I'm gaining ? a lot ? of HP by going to alcohol or E85 then that's what I'll go with. Does running alcohol or E85 "garuantee" more HP or? I have E85 near me and I can take some fuel jugs with me when I go to the water. The injection unit is now set up for alcohol but I don't know yet what I would have to change for my application.
But, alcohol and E85 is run a lot fatter than race gas and they will definately use a lot more fuel. When it gets to the point of going to the sandbar and having to turn around to go refuel that's not what I'm looking for. I'm also not looking to go to Martinez and running the thing all the way up to Walter's Camp without refueling either (a long way). I've been told that alcohol attracts water and evaporates quickly, I'm not sure if that's the best choice for a lake boat. I've been told that if there is a alcohol or E85 fire that there are no visible flames, I'm not too sure how much I like that idea either.
So that's why I'm "on the fence" about picking my fuel, I don't have enough info yet.
So it seems that's my next step is to figure out my plan further and decide on a fuel and stick with my plan. Then it seems a call to Kinsler is in order so we can figure out what I have and what I need.
I left the books out instead of repacking them up so I could read more on it and hopefully more will sink in.
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