Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just bought a jet boat with a 440 in it. Of course the guy says it was rebuilt. I've never been a mopar person and I plan on pulling the motor and going through it to make sure everything is right. The question is, What does right look like on a 440? I'm thinking of taking the rotating assembly down and having it ballanced. Are there some cranks that are better than others? Are stock rods ok in these motors? Here is what he says was done to it. "the engine being stripped, the block was thermal cleaned, shot blasted and tumbled, magnafluxed, bored, honed, resurfaced on a mill with carbide cutters, the line bore inspected, the main bore sizes checked against spec, and finish washed prior to assembly, the crankshaft was resized and polished after being maganfluxed, the connecting rods were cleaned, magnafluxed, resized and straightened, the cylinder heads were thermal cleaned, magnafluxed, valve guides replaced using manley 1/2"od replacement valve guides, the guides were resized using diamond reamers, the 3-angle valve job was performed on a sunnen VGS machine with carbide tooling, the valve guide clearance was inspected with a dial bore guage and the valve seat runout was inspected against spec after machining with a dial indicated valve seat runout guage, the valves were cleaned, the stems polished, and refaced on a sioux vavle machine, the valve springs were inspected using a computerized vavle spring rate testing machine.
The entire engine was assembled by an engine shop using dial bore guages to check all the bearing clearances and the parts were cosmolined for rust inhibition.

The parts installed included and were all new: Pistons, rings, camshaft, lifters, oil pump, cam bearings, rod bearings, main bearings, timing set, and gaskets."

I'm not sure about rods were straightened, maybe he ment checked for straightness. Is there head work or valve train work that should be done to a 440 or that is recomended for our applications? And finally it has a single 4bbl on a single plain manifold, is this good for a jet boat and still get good performance? I like the look of two 4s on a highrise but i want to get it on the river 1st.

Sorry for the long post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,045 Posts
Did any of the parts you listed have pt. no. types,or brands! Compression pistons or not, size of cam? Sonds like a fresh stright up rebuild IMO! WT:)devil
 

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
no part specs listed or given. I've asked him for the specs and if he has any reciepts I could copy or have when i pick the boat up next week. Another reason i'm thinking the $100 in gaskets is well worth it to tear it apart and see what is what.
 

·
Or Seth, either one
Joined
·
3,270 Posts
Jeeezzz

That's one hell of a lie, if it's not true. I'd believe him. Take it out, see what happens... IMO

Any shop references? What'd he say about the receipts 'n shit?

If someone went through that big of a lie to sell a boat... I might consider hiring a thug. It's one thing to say "I don't know" or "the guy before me had this and that done"... But all that detail??? I'd just run it.

BTW, I'm a Chevy guy, but some of those Mopar's are just unbelievable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
Good news is, 440's are damn good motors, and robust. If it were me, I'd simply pull a valve cover. You can tell right away if the motor is really fresh or not by the lack of any deposits under the valve covers and condition of the valve train. Not a perfect technique by any means, but better than nothing. A lot easier than tearing the entire motor down.


Darrell.
 

·
Resident Ford Nut
Joined
·
10,079 Posts
Good news is, 440's are damn good motors, and robust. If it were me, I'd simply pull a valve cover. You can tell right away if the motor is really fresh or not by the lack of any deposits under the valve covers and condition of the valve train. Not a perfect technique by any means, but better than nothing. A lot easier than tearing the entire motor down.


Darrell.

Ditto:

I think I'd do the same thing and call it a day. It would be nice to see work order from the re-build shop and maybe give them a call for some spec's on the cam and compression.

As far as the single 4bbl on a 440 that's a fine choice.

Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
no part specs listed or given. I've asked him for the specs and if he has any reciepts I could copy or have when i pick the boat up next week. Another reason i'm thinking the $100 in gaskets is well worth it to tear it apart and see what is what.
That would have been a good move BEFORE you bought it. I would at least have a leak down performed, valve adjustment checked, oil sample and analysis. This will tell you about the condition of the motor.

If that looks good, add new oil-wires-plugs-cap-rotor, and go run it. If it then meets your performance expectation, you're all set. If you want more, good time to tear it down and assess the next steps.
 

·
E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
Joined
·
6,834 Posts
Good news is, 440's are damn good motors, and robust. If it were me, I'd simply pull a valve cover. You can tell right away if the motor is really fresh or not by the lack of any deposits under the valve covers and condition of the valve train. Not a perfect technique by any means, but better than nothing. A lot easier than tearing the entire motor down.


Darrell.
Ditto here too. Go enjoy it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,263 Posts
I bet the prev owner copy and pasted that description. It sounds exactly like a description you'd read for a 'rebuilt' engine advertised on the net, including e-bay.

Not saying good or bad 'cause how the heck would we know if engine is good or not, just pointing out that the description 99% chance is not from a regular person unless copied and pasted.
 

·
blown mopar
Joined
·
343 Posts
i run a 440...cant seem to blow it up...been running the same short block w/stock rods for five years...and with the blower and 6lbs for 2years...just watch the timming w/iron heads...i do have a tunnel ram complete set up for a 440 for the right price
 

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
i run a 440...cant seem to blow it up...been running the same short block w/stock rods for five years...and with the blower and 6lbs for 2years...just watch the timming w/iron heads...i do have a tunnel ram complete set up for a 440 for the right price
What does the right price sound like to you? I did get the boat back and will start working on it this weekend. This flood duty is taking way more time than I had hoped. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the motor apart and just rebuild it. The machine shop said 7 - 10 days to align hone and zero deck the block as well as ballance crank, and rotating assembly. If it has forged pistons now I'll keep them. If they aren't forged but are new and good, I'll consider keeping them and and forget zero decking the block. I'll also need to find a jetboat oil pan for it as it appears to have a smallish car pan on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,169 Posts
Run it.....

Why take it apart? Run it. Bust it's balls, if it lives, great, if not, you were going to put a BBC in it anyway........To re balance a pressed pin engine is a really good way to destroy a couple of pistons during "un press" since you can't heat the little end of the rod. The reason the pan looks small is because the pan rails are low hung on a Mopar, the crank is stuck way up inside........$100. for re assembly gaskets my be a little low, remember they use a bath tub intake gasket.......Run it, have fun, evaluate it this season and re work it this winter. How will you know how much you improved it if you don't have a baseline for comparison?..........I have an 80 "JJ Custom" jetboat, (Challenger splash), with a built 383 Chrysler that is alot of fun. Not the fastest boat on the water, but not the slowest either...........Run it.................MP
 

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Why take it apart? Run it. Bust it's balls, if it lives, great, if not, you were going to put a BBC in it anyway........To re balance a pressed pin engine is a really good way to destroy a couple of pistons during "un press" since you can't heat the little end of the rod. The reason the pan looks small is because the pan rails are low hung on a Mopar, the crank is stuck way up inside........$100. for re assembly gaskets my be a little low, remember they use a bath tub intake gasket.......Run it, have fun, evaluate it this season and re work it this winter. How will you know how much you improved it if you don't have a baseline for comparison?..........I have an 80 "JJ Custom" jetboat, (Challenger splash), with a built 383 Chrysler that is alot of fun. Not the fastest boat on the water, but not the slowest either...........Run it.................MP
Well I was going to do just as you said. But, I thought what the heck at least pull a valve cover and see what the top looks like. It looks like it's been sitting for a couple years and condensation has formed light surface rust on the springs, keepers, rockers, ect.... Not to mention the guy didn't put valve cover gaskets in it. Now, I'm definately back to pulling it appart. Your comments did make sense though. So, the new plan is to pull it appart make sure the cylinders are clean of rust. Make sure the heads are functional and recheck the bottom end bearings. It was rebuilt as there is no wear on any of the springs or rockers. He just didn't put it away propperly when he didn't use it. How do the water lines run on your 383? this block doesn't have a thermostat housing as they are on the waterpump housing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,169 Posts
2 hole flanges

Well I was going to do just as you said. But, I thought what the heck at least pull a valve cover and see what the top looks like. It looks like it's been sitting for a couple years and condensation has formed light surface rust on the springs, keepers, rockers, ect.... Not to mention the guy didn't put valve cover gaskets in it. Now, I'm definately back to pulling it appart. Your comments did make sense though. So, the new plan is to pull it appart make sure the cylinders are clean of rust. Make sure the heads are functional and recheck the bottom end bearings. It was rebuilt as there is no wear on any of the springs or rockers. He just didn't put it away propperly when he didn't use it. How do the water lines run on your 383? this block doesn't have a thermostat housing as they are on the waterpump housing.
Yeah the water "in" flanges are kinda hard to find, so don't lose them if you have them. They have 2 holes for each side.....The lower hole is "in" I think, the upper hole is "out". The intake is dry........I'll double check tomorrow in the daylight, but that seems to be what I remember.....MP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,879 Posts
Hey M/P. I would get the torque specs and take it down to the bare minimum. Nothing worse than hitting the water and having parts fly all over the lake. Best part is you can check the motor out the guy sold you and you will learn about what you are going to hammer. Nothing gives more satisfaction than going fast in something YOU put together. I think sleeper C/P would agree on this thought. In closing you will know the motor and if it decides to take a do-do you will have an idea where to start. IMO M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,169 Posts
Yeah

I sort of agree, but more times than not the simple tear down turns into a yearlong project. I would at least start it, evaluate how it sounds and then make a decision. Those Mopar big blocks have a lot of heart..........MP
 

·
Just Me
Joined
·
4,059 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Yeah the water "in" flanges are kinda hard to find, so don't lose them if you have them. They have 2 holes for each side.....The lower hole is "in" I think, the upper hole is "out". The intake is dry........I'll double check tomorrow in the daylight, but that seems to be what I remember.....MP
It doesn't have any flanges for the in or out. It has a Glennwood Vdrive front plate that has threaded holes for the water lines to connect to. He also installed the vdrive waterpump button on the cam. Does that need to come off or can I just leave it there in case I want to stick it in the flat later? FWIW, I don't ever intend to run this boat on a BBC. I like to be just a little different. And if i'm not going to race the old flat, it probably won't have a BBC in it either. But, I'm still leaning to building it to SS specs. It just won't be all that fast. Back to this motor. The heads and block are 72 models. With the right pistons, zero deck the block, and some head porting, I've been told this motor can make near 600 HP on pump gas with a tunnel ram. Add a 250 shot of NOS and I think I can live with that for a river boat. Wishful thinking or something to shoot for?
 

·
E-7 Sheepdog (ret)
Joined
·
6,834 Posts
I sort of agree, but more times than not the simple tear down turns into a yearlong project. I would at least start it, evaluate how it sounds and then make a decision. Those Mopar big blocks have a lot of heart..........MP
There were times before she became mine (was dad's) that Lowrider wasn't run for 2 or 3 YEARS (maybe longer).

Eventual teardown (due to worn main/rod bearings and flopping timing chain (single row, nylon teeth)) of the stock Indmar 454 revealed some light surface discoloration (rust) on the pushrods, neglible ammounts on springs, keepers, retainers, guideplates, etc.
I still possess most of those parts because they got replaced in the upgrades (cam kit had new retainers, pushrods were 5/16", now 3/8", retaineers are now 10* on 11/32 stems, etc).

Ran for who knows how many years like that. Not a single problem.

Go enjoy the darned boat for heaven's sake. Dismantle it this winter if you want to spend $$$ so badly.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top