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I was like blam!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
would it be cheaper to take my pump out and bring it to a shop to rebuild ?or should I just buy a rebuild kit and do my self?if I do decide to rebuild it what are some tricks of the trade ie removal of bowl,removal of suction housing ect.any advice is appreciated.Thanks hooker
 

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would it be cheaper to take my pump out and bring it to a shop to rebuild ?or should I just buy a rebuild kit and do my self?if I do decide to rebuild it what are some tricks of the trade ie removal of bowl,removal of suction housing ect.any advice is appreciated.Thanks hooker
Don't know your location or your mechanical background, but if it was me, I'd take it to someone that knows what they're doing. If you're in the SF Valley area, give Jim Brock @ Cyclone a call 818-890-1767, OC/IE Greg Shoemaker is your man. Nor Cal, call Jim Coffey @ Performance Jet.

Good luck whatever you do
 

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Sit N' Spin
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In my limited experience of rebuilding pumps (and they've all been Berkeley pumps...never done a Dominator so I'm not sure if there are many differences, if any)...

If you're just wanting to rebuild the pump so that you have a fresh working pump and you are mechanically inclined, I say do it yourself. At minimum, I recommend getting the 1/2" drive spline socket that goes over the splined end of the pump shaft, the 1/2" drive impeller nut socket, and the impeller puller to do it.

For the bowl you'll need a 3/4" socket.

Packing gland nuts are either 1/2" or 9/16"

Allen bolts on the bearing cap are a 1/4" allen

Handhole cleanout cover bolts are 9/16"

You'll need a set of flat feeler gauges for checking clearance, and a dial caliper is recommended for measuring these as I've found some to be marked inaccurately.

The thrust bearing is a interference/press fit onto the shaft.

The new impeller should hand fit (not be tight) onto the shaft

If you're gonna run a shouldered wear ring, the impeller will more than likely have to be shimmed back to give adequate clearance between the front thrust edge of the wear ring skirt and the shoulder.

Bowl removal can be done by removing the bowl bolts, then loosely threading in two of the bolts a few turns (one on either side of the bowl), then tap on the bolts alternately with a hammer to walk the bowl off of its register (the bowl sits on a register and is an interference fit onto this register so it will not immediately come off once the bolts are removed).

Depending on the impeller nut that is currently installed you may or may not have to cut it off as some of them seem to adhere themselves to the shaft pretty good.

I prefer to install the rope packings BEFORE the shaft is installed (easier to get them all the way in without having to use the packing collar). Once the new bearing is installed on the shaft, I wrap electrical tape around the impeller register of the shaft to protect the rope packings from getting damaged by it. You may have to tap the shaft through the packings by placing a piece of wood (preferably a dense type of wood that won't splinter when struck...don't ask me how I learned that :D) on the splined end of the shaft and tapping it through the housing. The bearing will be a slight interference fit into the housing so the shaft will have to be tapped in all the way.

Most rope kits come with 5 ropes, however I've never been able to get all 5 in upon initial assembly. I run 4 and keep readjusting the packing gland as need as the new ropes seat during normal operation. Then once the collar is bottomed out (should happen after the first few trips out) I remove it and am then able to install the 5th rope seal.

To install the ropes, make a circle out of them and place them in the packing box area behind the thrust bearing where the shaft passes through it into the suction housing. The ropes will be "stacked" front to back. Make sure to stagger the gaps where the ends of the ropes meet. I usually do the first one at the 12 o' clock position (straight up), 2nd at 6:00 (straight down), 3rd at 9:00 (pointing toward the passenger side) and 4th at the 3:00 position (pointing toward the drivers side).

For intial adjustment of the packing collar, I spin the shaft by hand and keep tightening the two packing collar bolts evenly until I start to feel drag on the shaft. Final adjustment occurs once the pump is installed and the boat is in the water.

All clearance specs posted from here on out were aquired from Berkeley's original factory blueprint, Jim Coffey at Performance Jet as well as Duane at Hi-Tech Performance.

Torque specs were aquired directly from Berkeley's pump rebuilding instructions.

Once the shaft is in I mount the bearing cap WITHOUT a gasket until it's snug, then measure the clearance between the suction housing and bearing cap. The bearing is clamped, or "crushed", into place by a register on the backside of the bearing cap. From what Duane at Hi-Tech Performance told me, the gasket will crush 0.005"-0.010" if it is of the proper thickness. To determine if the gasket is of the proper thickness, you measure the gap between the back of the bearing cap and the bearing cap mounting surface on the suction housing, and the gasket should be 0.005"-0.010" thicker than this measurement. If it's too thin, you can either stack gaskets until the stack of them is the proper thickness, or use gasket material that is 0.005"-0.010" thicker than the gap measurement.

For the wear ring (DO NOT DO THIS ON AN ULTIMATE WEAR RING!!!), I use a map gas torch to melt the plastic insulator that's sandwiched between the housing and the ring. Once this is meted down, you can easily pry it out with a screwdriver. To install the new one (assuming a metal wear ring), I freeze them overnight, then install the new insulator in the housing around the wear ring housing, then use the old impeller to tap it into the housing. Make sure the front edge of the wear ring fully seats against the lip on the insulator.

Without the shaft key on the shaft, install the impeller as far in as it will go, then install the impeller nut snug. Measure the clearance between the -

For standard non-shouldered wear rings...the thrust face on the suction housing and the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt

For shouldered wear rings...the wear ring shoulder and the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt

This clearance should be between 0.025" - 0.125" If running a stock non-shouldered wear ring, it's typical to see 0.125" as this is Berkeley's factory blueprinted spec. You CAN either have the nose cone of the impeller OR the shaft register machined to get it closer if you wish.

With a non-shouldered wear ring, you will have some of the insulator lip sticking up with the wear ring installed. I take a razor knife and go along the wear ring and trim this excess off (NOT doing this was what caused my first pump to fail).

With a shouldered wear ring the impeller WILL be too close and will have to be shimmed. With the impeller installed without the shaft key and the nut snugged up on it, the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt should be up against the wear ring shoulder. Check to see if there is a gap between the shaft register and the nose cone of the impeller.

If there is no gap - I install a 0.035" shim and call it good. This will set my shoulder - impeller clearance at 0.035'

If there is a gap - I measure the gap, and add that much shim to the 0.035" shim (example: if you have a 0.010" gap between the impeller register on the shaft and the nose cone of the impeller, I add a 0.010" shim to the 0.035" shim for a total of 0.045" shim.). That will bring the impeller nose cone - shaft register gap to 0, plus will set it back 0.035" away from the wear ring shoulder.

In the rare event that there is a clearance between the wear ring shoulder and the impeller wear ring skirt with the nose cone up against the shaft register, measure this clearance and subtract it from 0.035". This will be how much of a shim you will need.

Once you've figured out how much shim you need, remove the impeller and install the shims. Then reinstall and snug up the impeller. Use feeler gauges to check the gap between the impeller and thrust surface of the housing (wear ring shoulder for shouldered wear rings). I use a flat feeler gauge and stick it between the two, then drag it all around to feel for tight spots.

*NOTE: When using flat feeler gauges, check their thickness with a dial caliper. Don't trust what they're marked to be to be correct. I've seen some that are off by as much as 0.005".

According to Berkeley's spec, impeller nut torque and bowl bolt torqu is 75 ft lbs.

Bowl bushings are an inteference fit into the bowl. You can remove the old ones and reinstall the new ones by tapping them out/in with a socket.

Once the pump is fully assembled, spin it with a breaker bar and the spline socket and make sure you don't hear any rubbing or scraping and that it turns smooth without binding. If you hear any scraping/rubbing throughout the rotation or you can feel it binding (i.e. feel a resistance at some points in the rotation), STOP. It's wrong! Take it back apart and find out what could be causing it. You may have to take the shaft to a shop and have it checked for straightness, or the wear ring may not be fully seated, housing could be tweaked, etc etc. Find the cause and fix it. DO NOT RUN THE PUMP UNTIL THE ISSUE IS CORRECTED (again...don't ask me how I know this :D )!!!

Once the pump is installed in the boat, the packing collar may or may not need adjustment. With the boat sitting in the water and the engine off, sit on the dock and watch how much water leaks through it. It shouldn't leak anymore than 1-2 drops per minute. If it's leaking more than this, tighten the collar bolts evenly in 1/4 turn increments, then watch it again. Keep doing this until you only see 1-2 drops per minute.

Hope this helps.
 

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oh for fuc_k's sake, didn't you get enough in your last post dude?
 

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oh for fuc_k's sake, didn't you get enough in your last post dude?

He did say "in his limited experience" :D

I'll have to vote for doing it yourself as well. If you're just trying to get back on the water, or have a friendly cruiser, pumps aren't complicated. If you're going for performance I would send it to a shop as well :)devil
 

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Sit N' Spin
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He did say "in his limited experience" :D
Thanks Tony. Not only that, I also posted my sources for all the above mentioned specs. The rest of it is based on pumps I have actually built. Even though I've built a very limited number of them the procedures above are the procedures I personally went by when doing so and they've worked for each pump I've built. So honestly I don't see what the problem is here.

I know it seems like a lot of info for someone who has limited experience, but building pumps, whle simple, is a very involved process. I learned the hard way that one little thing wrong with a pump build can very easily send a boat to the bottom of the lake (it almost happened to me once). Because of that, I'm very thorough when building a pump and try to make it as detailed of a process as I can. No reason to rush the build.
 

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I was like blam!
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
In my limited experience of rebuilding pumps (and they've all been Berkeley pumps...never done a Dominator so I'm not sure if there are many differences, if any)...

If you're just wanting to rebuild the pump so that you have a fresh working pump and you are mechanically inclined, I say do it yourself. At minimum, I recommend getting the 1/2" drive spline socket that goes over the splined end of the pump shaft, the 1/2" drive impeller nut socket, and the impeller puller to do it.

For the bowl you'll need a 3/4" socket.

Packing gland nuts are either 1/2" or 9/16"

Allen bolts on the bearing cap are a 1/4" allen

Handhole cleanout cover bolts are 9/16"

You'll need a set of flat feeler gauges for checking clearance, and a dial caliper is recommended for measuring these as I've found some to be marked inaccurately.

The thrust bearing is a interference/press fit onto the shaft.

The new impeller should hand fit (not be tight) onto the shaft

If you're gonna run a shouldered wear ring, the impeller will more than likely have to be shimmed back to give adequate clearance between the front thrust edge of the wear ring skirt and the shoulder.

Bowl removal can be done by removing the bowl bolts, then loosely threading in two of the bolts a few turns (one on either side of the bowl), then tap on the bolts alternately with a hammer to walk the bowl off of its register (the bowl sits on a register and is an interference fit onto this register so it will not immediately come off once the bolts are removed).

Depending on the impeller nut that is currently installed you may or may not have to cut it off as some of them seem to adhere themselves to the shaft pretty good.

I prefer to install the rope packings BEFORE the shaft is installed (easier to get them all the way in without having to use the packing collar). Once the new bearing is installed on the shaft, I wrap electrical tape around the impeller register of the shaft to protect the rope packings from getting damaged by it. You may have to tap the shaft through the packings by placing a piece of wood (preferably a dense type of wood that won't splinter when struck...don't ask me how I learned that :D) on the splined end of the shaft and tapping it through the housing. The bearing will be a slight interference fit into the housing so the shaft will have to be tapped in all the way.

Most rope kits come with 5 ropes, however I've never been able to get all 5 in upon initial assembly. I run 4 and keep readjusting the packing gland as need as the new ropes seat during normal operation. Then once the collar is bottomed out (should happen after the first few trips out) I remove it and am then able to install the 5th rope seal.

For intial adjustment of the packing collar, I spin the shaft by hand and keep tightening the two packing collar bolts evenly until I start to feel drag on the shaft. Final adjustment occurs once the pump is installed and the boat is in the water.

Once the shaft is in I mount the bearing cap WITHOUT a gasket until it's snug, then measure the clearance between the suction housing and bearing cap. The bearing is clamped, or "crushed", into place by a register on the backside of the bearing cap. From what Duane at Hi-Tech Performance told me, the gasket will crush 0.005"-0.010" if it is of the proper thickness. To determine if the gasket is of the proper thickness, you measure the gap between the back of the bearing cap and the bearing cap mounting surface on the suction housing, and the gasket should be 0.005"-0.010" thicker than this measurement. If it's too thin, you can either stack gaskets until the stack of them is the proper thickness, or use gasket material that is 0.005"-0.010" thicker than the gap measurement.

For the wear ring (DO NOT DO THIS ON AN ULTIMATE WEAR RING!!!), I use a map gas torch to melt the plastic insulator that's sandwiched between the housing and the ring. Once this is meted down, you can easily pry it out with a screwdriver. To install the new one (assuming a metal wear ring), I freeze them overnight, then install the new insulator in the housing around the wear ring housing, then use the old impeller to tap it into the housing. Make sure the front edge of the wear ring fully seats against the lip on the insulator.

Without the shaft key on the shaft, install the impeller as far in as it will go, then install the impeller nut snug. Measure the clearance between the -

For standard non-shouldered wear rings...the thrust face on the suction housing and the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt

For shouldered wear rings...the wear ring shoulder and the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt

This clearance should be between 0.025" - 0.125" If running a stock non-shouldered wear ring, it's typical to see 0.125" as this is Berkeley's factory blueprinted spec. You CAN either have the nose cone of the impeller OR the shaft register machined to get it closer if you wish.

With a non-shouldered wear ring, you will have some of the insulator lip sticking up with the wear ring installed. I take a razor knife and go along the wear ring and trim this excess off (NOT doing this was what caused my first pump to fail).

With a shouldered wear ring the impeller WILL be too close and will have to be shimmed. With the impeller installed without the shaft key and the nut snugged up on it, the front edge of the impeller wear ring skirt should be up against the wear ring shoulder. Check to see if there is a gap between the shaft register and the nose cone of the impeller.

If there is no gap - I install a 0.035" shim and call it good. This will set my shoulder - impeller clearance at 0.035'

If there is a gap - I measure the gap, and add that much shim to the 0.035" shim (example: if you have a 0.010" gap between the impeller register on the shaft and the nose cone of the impeller, I add a 0.010" shim to the 0.035" shim for a total of 0.045" shim.). That will bring the impeller nose cone - shaft register gap to 0, plus will set it back 0.035" away from the wear ring shoulder.

In the rare event that there is a clearance between the wear ring shoulder and the impeller wear ring skirt with the nose cone up against the shaft register, measure this clearance and subtract it from 0.035". This will be how much of a shim you will need.

Once you've figured out how much shim you need, remove the impeller and install the shims. Then reinstall and snug up the impeller. Use feeler gauges to check the gap between the impeller and thrust surface of the housing (wear ring shoulder for shouldered wear rings). I use a flat feeler gauge and stick it between the two, then drag it all around to feel for tight spots.

*NOTE: When using flat feeler gauges, check their thickness with a dial caliper. Don't trust what they're marked to be to be correct. I've seen some that are off by as much as 0.005".

According to Berkeley's spec, impeller nut torque and bowl bolt torqu is 75 ft lbs.

Bowl bushings are an inteference fit into the bowl. You can remove the old ones and reinstall the new ones by tapping them out/in with a socket.

Once the pump is fully assembled, spin it with a breaker bar and the spline socket and make sure you don't hear any rubbing or scraping and that it turns smooth without binding.

Once the pump is installed in the boat, the packing collar may or may not need adjustment. With the boat sitting in the water and the engine off, sit on the dock and watch how much water leaks through it. It shouldn't leak anymore than 1-2 drops per minute. If it's leaking more than this, tighten the collar bolts evenly in 1/4 turn increments, then watch it again. Keep doing this until you only see 1-2 drops per minute.

Hope this helps.
thanks for the help guys !also hope this info helps someone else down the road .keep em comming any and all info is good info.
 

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Thanks Jon for all the good info...

I really wish we all could just get along and not "bitch" at each other if one of us makes a mistake.

I really appreciate your info as I totally forgot one of the steps you pointed out which for sure would have cost me a wasted day at the lake!

Anyway, thanks again!
 

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I was like blam!
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
im having a real tuff time removing the bowl ive tried leaving the two bolts in and hitting em with a hammer with no luck .just not certain if i should use a chissel or screwdriver?any help would be great .also should i be doing anything before the bowl is removed like checking clearance or something?thanks again.the hooker
 

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Sit N' Spin
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im having a real tuff time removing the bowl ive tried leaving the two bolts in and hitting em with a hammer with no luck .just not certain if i should use a chissel or screwdriver?any help would be great .also should i be doing anything before the bowl is removed like checking clearance or something?thanks again.the hooker
PM sent
 

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im having a real tuff time removing the bowl ive tried leaving the two bolts in and hitting em with a hammer with no luck .just not certain if i should use a chissel or screwdriver?any help would be great .also should i be doing anything before the bowl is removed like checking clearance or something?thanks again.the hooker
The most likely reason your having trouble seperating the bowl from the suction is that some "well meaning" person has likely use silicone sealant or ??? God knows what on the gasket surfaces , hammers and chisles have no place here, you might try gently inserting a Hard thin but heavy bladed gasket scraper (Snap-on or Mac type )around the perimeter between the two pieces to "Break the seal" , this Jet should have been assembled with perhaps a light coating of grease at best !e feel free to Call if you need help Tom
 

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Anytime.

He got the pump apart and found that the noise and vibration he was getting was in fact from the tail bushings worn to almost nothing...wasn't the thrust bearing as previously thought. No forward/backward play and the pump turned smoothly with no noise once the bowl was removed. However with the bowl still isntalled he did have some up and down play which also points to the tail bushings. Probably never been replaced since the pump was built.

He still has to remove the impeller so that we can inspect the wear ring and impeller wear ring skirt to make sure they didn't rub too much and cause any damage. If all is well, it'll be just a matter of replacing the tail bushings and calling it good.
 

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got the bowl off finally :)devilpain in the arse with all the silacone:|errthanks again jon with the help over the phone!
Going stricly off the pictures the "wear" to the shaft and bushings looks fairly minimal and there are no witness marks in the rear impeller skirt area of the bowl to suggest wear was super extreme . Although they (the busings) likley do need replacement very very careful when you do so, that particular Dominator bowl (bushing replacement) is a little tougher than a Berk . My guess is the "noise" you might have been hearing may well have been Driveline and input spline combined wear Please check your driveline connection closely Tom
 

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Going stricly off the pictures the "wear" to the shaft and bushings looks fairly minimal and there are no witness marks in the rear impeller skirt area of the bowl to suggest wear was extreme ,Although they (the busings) likley do need replacement very very careful when you do so that particular Dominator bowl (bushing replacement) is a little tougher than a Berk My guess is the "noise" may have been Driveline and input spline combined wear Please check your driveline closely Tom
that's an understatement:D lol, this ain't the bowl to learn how to rebuild pumps on, its a sob to put a bushing in:|err
 

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Heres the syle bushings your likely up against, attached pics are grease lube and water lubed . Chances are (assuming this is an "older" Dominator) that the bushing sleeve (right) was not annodized and removal from the bowl without lathe machining may possibly "push" (break) the end of the bowl casting during removal Tom
 
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