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Discussion Starter #1
I have switched to running the e85 in a 540 BBC. The motor has a 14-71 blower shop blower @ 5% under driven and more than pleased with the results. The Dominators were converted using the Quick Fuel conversion kit. The question I have is, how large are the squirters are you finding that is needed to come out of the hole without a stumble.

The Quick Fuel kit came with 47's for squirters and there was a slight hesitation, so I changed to 50's, but slowed the motor down to idle at about 1000 rpm from 1150-1200 RPM. I had a huge hesitation when I did that. I drilled some old squirters to 61. It was the smallest I had, except for some 45s. I expected that to be quite a bit to much, but I did want to see if that was the correct direction I need to go. It does not hesitate at all now. I have a playback tachometer that I can print from and it shows it still is not snapping the rpm from 1-3000 like I think it should. The 61s definitely helped and actually feels good.

Has anyone tried different squirters with e85 and a blower and found they need larger than 61s for the squirters?

I am talking about idling the motor around 1000 rpm, in gear with the boat flat in the water and then hit the accelerator peddle to bring it out.

I think bigger squirters are needed, but the end of the season is over for me to try something else.

So, I am looking for opinions and possibly experience for suggestions and thoughts.

I am running this in a Cole TR4 flatbottom, 11X16 prop and 29 gears.
 

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My first question would be how big are the pumps themselves. You have to remember, the squirter DOES NOT determine the amount of fuel pumped. They only determine how fast it is dumped in. The bigger the nozzle, the faster the pump empthies. Also, specially with a blower motor, if the motor doesn't jump on the main circuit almost instantly, look else where for the problem. I could disconnect the secondary pumps on mine and hardly notice. I can't believe that thing doesn't jump to 5000 at the hit. My tiny little 470 with a 8-71 at 3% over is at 6000 if my foot is on the floor, and the has even moved. You should be well on to the main circuit before the boat even makes a move. I willing to bet you have 30cc pumps on at least on side of the carbs.



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steelcomp was here
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Have you tried another degree or two of timing?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have 50cc pumps all the way around and the actuating arm has no movement or slack in it. The pump shot volume seems like it is about the same.

GN7, you are correct about the hit. When I was running AV gas there was no hesitation. The playback tachometer would print out that from 2000 RPM to 7700 RPM the time was right at 1 second (a very vertical slope line).

The print out now has the time (slope) about the same, but there is a portion of the slope on the curve that isn't quite as vertical in the 1000 - 2500 range (slower). The rest of the slop is slightly more vertical than with the AV gas.

It may just need the squirters larger. I know with the e85, it requires more fuel.

What size squirters do the people running methanol and carburetors use?

I haven't tried changing the timing. It is 30 degrees, which seems to be common for the e85.
 

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What pump cams does the carbs have? Sounds like you need more pump shot per degree of throttle movement.
 

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If you come to the fact that the pumps don't have the volume, I have seen 75cc kits from a different MFG. I would think 50s all around would be plenty, though.
 

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I haven't tried changing the timing. It is 30 degrees, which seems to be common for the e85.
That seems awefully soft for e85 to me. What fuel were your running before the e85. I'm thinking you need more boost or more timing. You have to remember, your burning more fuel, and its a fuel that burns slower. It needs a head start to to do its job. Is the dizzy locked out?



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I would swap the pulleys around and bump the timing to 36 degrees
 

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Discussion Starter #10
058 -- I am running 1050 dominators with soft progressive linkage. I was running AV gas prior to switching to e85 and the Quick Fuel Conversion kits.

I think the 50cc pumps should be adequate. What are the methanol guys using for their pumps. I shouldn't need more than they use and probably less.

The timing is locked. I run a MSD crank trigger.

The timing change is a possibility and putting in more boost will make it run stronger. I actually have a big margin there. I am currently running 5% under-driven and according to the blowershop information, I should have about 9.5lb boost. If I flip the pulleys over, it would be about 5% over with 12lb boost. I don't want to change to many things at once or I will get confused and never get things sorted out. That happens often enough already.

It does seem to like more fuel than what the conversion kit came with. The kit is set up for naturally aspirated though and blowers will change the requirements. The kit started out with 97 jets and after a few trials, it likes the 107 jetting much better.

GN7 -- When you say soft for e85, are you talking about timing? A lot of information I have seen, leads me believe that e85 and gasoline require about the same timing. There aren't a lot of boat guys that have switched over to the e85 and there seems to be a lot of trial and error in doing this. There a few people that seem to have worked with it and have some really good information, but they run injectors and turbos.
 

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As far as timing goes, we are dealing with a number of variables that we don't know. We don't know what fuel you were running before, compression ratio, intercooler and so on. One of the concerns is were you running 30* of timing being that you were on the octane limit of the fuel? If so, what octane gas were you running? In the NA stuff I have worked with that have run E85 I have seen similar timing between the two. But since neither one was octane limited we were going for the optimum performance and not worried so much about detonation. Now going forced induction I see a whole new world, especially if you don't have an intercooler. With the cooling effect of the E85 over gas you can definitely get away with more timing, especially in the lower RPM band (that is if you were using an advance in it).

So now we are to the big question, what do the plugs look like? Does the ground strap show if you can put more timing to it?

Paul
 

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That seems awefully soft for e85 to me. What fuel were your running before the e85. I'm thinking you need more boost or more timing. You have to remember, your burning more fuel, and its a fuel that burns slower. It needs a head start to to do its job. Is the dizzy locked out?
As far as timing goes, we are dealing with a number of variables that we don't know. We don't know what fuel you were running before, compression ratio, intercooler and so on. One of the concerns is were you running 30* of timing being that you were on the octane limit of the fuel? If so, what octane gas were you running? In the NA stuff I have worked with that have run E85 I have seen similar timing between the two. But since neither one was octane limited we were going for the optimum performance and not worried so much about detonation. Now going forced induction I see a whole new world, especially if you don't have an intercooler. With the cooling effect of the E85 over gas you can definitely get away with more timing, especially in the lower RPM band (that is if you were using an advance in it).

So now we are to the big question, what do the plugs look like? Does the ground strap show if you can put more timing to it?

Paul
I agree. Thats why I asked. If we knew what fuel you were running, it may explain the timing. If it was pump, and he hasn't changed the timing from that, i'd throw some timing at it. Or push up the boost some. Still what to know if the dizzy is locked out or not.



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058 -- I am running 1050 dominators with soft progressive linkage. I was running AV gas prior to switching to e85 and the Quick Fuel Conversion kits.

I think the 50cc pumps should be adequate. What are the methanol guys using for their pumps. I shouldn't need more than they use and probably less.
I also think the 50cc pumps are adequate, I was asking about the pump cams. There are about a dozen different cams with different profiles and most have at least 2 cam positions and a few have 3. What cams are installed in your carbs? If you don't know the number what is the color of the cams? By the way, Are you using the hollow squirter retaining screws? Any nozzle over about .038" it is recommended to use the hollow screws as the channel around the solid screws will not flow enough fuel to supply the squirters.
 

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I also think the 50cc pumps are adequate, I was asking about the pump cams. There are about a dozen different cams with different profiles and most have at least 2 cam positions and a few have 3. What cams are installed in your carbs? If you don't know the number what is the color of the cams? By the way, Are you using the hollow squirter retaining screws? Any nozzle over about .038" it is recommended to use the hollow screws as the channel around the solid screws will not flow enough fuel to supply the squirters.
Although i only know 2 cams for the 50cc pump, 058 is 100% correct about the shooter screw. The screw doesn't change the total amount flowed, but it will certainly make the shooters behave as though they are smaller after about .036-.038. I consider .032 the limit for the solid screw.



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Discussion Starter #17
The Quick Fuel kit comes with the larger hollow screws.

The ignition is with a crank trigger and crab type distributor. There is no advance available with that set up.

The compression is 9.4 and was the same for both the AV gas and e85. The fuel was Aviation gas with a rating of 100LL. The actual octane was always around 107 according to the the airport records on the fuel.

There is no intercooler. It does have a Indy intake manifold which has an air gap, which should help a little.

The dominator carburetors only have three linkage set-ups that I am aware. They are one to one, progressive and soft progressive. The one to one is offered as an accessory by Holley. Mine are soft progressive as they started out as 9375-1 (1050) carburetors for a tunnel ram. The cam is the yellow cam that came on the carburetors and I do not think there are any adjustments with it. I know some carburetors have different positions for the screws like a 1 position or a 2 position. It is my understanding the yellow cam will dump all of the fuel from the pump.

Changing the air bleeds for idle should only be necessary if the idle adjustment can not be made with the idle adjustment screws. Mine are adjusted approximately 3/4 turn out, which should be OK.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Fc-Pilot

You are answering questions for someone who likes to play. I have never really figured out how to get a good reading with plugs on a dragboat. I am not comfortable with making a hard pass and pulling the kill switch to check.

The 30 degree advance has always seemed like a reasonably safe advance for AV gas with a blower without giving up too much power. The motor is not set for kill, but just to run very good.

The plugs have always looked OK, but they have not been checked the way it needs to done. I have friends who make a run, drive the boat back to the trailer, idle in and pull the plugs to see how they look. I don't think they are getting much information.

I have always felt a little more timing could be used and a little more boost could be used but, it is set up on the conservative side without giving up much or hurting the motor.

I have recently installed an O2 meter and still trying to figure out what it has told me.
 

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My question is why your not on the main circuit by that the time it hits 2000. I could almost disconnect my secondary pumps and be ok. And they are 9375s. I would raise the float level to just above half way and throw 2* at it. The e85 has a much higher cooling effect than the AV per unit, and your moving almost 50% more. By the time you evap all that e85, you have pulled some heat. 30 is nice safe gas number, but it is lazy compared to even 32. And with alky its probably really lazy.



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