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Discussion Starter #1
Well I seem to have somehow created the Dr. Kevorikian for injection pumps.... Assisted suicides in the death of TWO Hilborn 150 pumps.... Double homicide in about 5 minutes or less run time, each.... Motor started fine, no prime required, idled, warmed up, whacked it a couple of times and hit the water.... Sounded OK at first, but then it just went downhill from there. The "Split Second" EGT showed "Double Green", as though it was OK, but as it turns out it was just pissing a stream out the nozzles, no misting, so there was plenty of raw, low pressure liquid fuel......
I'll report back when/IF, I figure out why they died a horrible death. At $5-600. a shot, I'm really afraid to bolt another one on until I can be damn sure what caused it.....
More details to follow.....
Ray
 

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wow dude you ARE good ......... j/k ....... hope you get it fixed
 

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Are these new or used pumps? If they are brand new and never been broke in, you should loosen the front cover bolts till they are just snug, run the engine on the trailer for a few minutes a keep the revs up. Snug them a little more and do the same. The clearances on pumps these days are very tight and if you dont break them in on the flow bench, you need to break them in on the vehicle. If you pull apart the pumps you have that have gone bad, they are probably galled.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Newer/older

Are these new or used pumps? If they are brand new and never been broke in, you should loosen the front cover bolts till they are just snug, run the engine on the trailer for a few minutes a keep the revs up. Snug them a little more and do the same. The clearances on pumps these days are very tight and if you dont break them in on the flow bench, you need to break them in on the vehicle. If you pull apart the pumps you have that have gone bad, they are probably galled.
The first one was very used. When it quit producing adequate pressure I figured it was it's time to give up... The second one had a few laps on it and used a different spacer/shaft set up. Both were properly clearanced as far as shaft end play/engagement, and the cam has .004 end play.... Both started easily at first, and gradually died after about 5 minutes run time.... The older one shows signs of wear inside, but the newer one still looks new inside?.. I'll have the motor back here soon, and I'll do some indicating as far as run out of the hex drive goes... The only parts that were reused were the center plate, (mounting), and the hex drive on the cam. This was the first time I've ran this gear drive, but everything looked normal as it went together. I even put a new idler gear bearing in it, just because I had one and didn't know the history of the old one.... The gear drive isn't excessively noisy or anything, but Gordy Jennings suggested I might be experiencing a "harmonic" from the gears that shakes the pump???
All in all a very disappointing and expensive weekend....
Ray
PS Thanks to Dave Rankin for starting with the Pro Stock boats to make it a legal class for the Western Divisionals, I felt really shitty when we had to admit we were done, and left them with only 3 boats....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Never dry.....

And they did not get cranked for a long time with the motor not running?
Well, what is a long time? We never cranked for more than 10-12 seconds, in 3 different sessions, with 30-40 seconds in between, (a routine I've used for 20+ years), to build a little oil pressure. AND, the fuel shut off was ON, which also allows the system to create enough fuel pressure to fire without any priming once the mag is ungrounded....Which it did with both pumps, fired right up.....
Believe me, I'm racking my brain to find something, anything, that was done different this time, from all the other times.....
Ray
 

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PS Thanks to Dave Rankin for starting with the Pro Stock boats to make it a legal class for the Western Divisionals, I felt really shitty when we had to admit we were done, and left them with only 3 boats....
which boat was yours???
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I appreciate the input....

Look for an air leak on the inlet side.
OK, but this is a "gravity feed" type deal with the tank, (fuel level), considerably higher than the pump which, I believe, would leak if there was any type leak in the #12 SS hose. I remember a time at a Burley motel where the line was kinked by an over zealous application of cable ties and it filled the back of the boat with race gas, just sitting there.... There entire circuit will be replaced, not because I know it's bad, but because I feel it's time from a "preventive maintenance" aspect....

which boat was yours???
My motor, Jeremiah's boat, the PS11.... The motor was/is new. A motor I/we (the PS89 team) started buying parts for in 2007, and now has come to fruition... Since Mike Lee was tied up with prior plans, Jeremiah agreed to run the engine in the PS 11. Although these flatbottoms may all "look" alike, it was quite a project, time, and $$$$, to make everything fit/work in a boat that usually runs a carburetor... Tank change, gear change, tach change, EGT sensor, etc etc...

All I can say is "We tried".... I'm pretty sure we tried as hard as any team to make the call, but the newer pump died on Saturday morning during a quick "test session", and quite frankly, even if we had another pump I would have hesitated to try it for fear of making it a "Triple Homicide" weekend.... I have had several opinions as to "why", but it will all come down to some careful inspection once the engine is back at the shop. Jeremiah has a bunch of work to get the boat back to the 95 MPH class he intends to run at Burley, as well as some hull maintenance....
Ray
 

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"The older one shows signs of wear inside, but the newer one still looks new inside?.."

I'd shoot those pumps to Enderle or someone and confirm what they are flowing on the bench to start.

I have seen several drive spuds that had a lot of runout.
I had one drive spud that actually started rounding the corners of the pump drive also to the point the pump was
actually slipping at high rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good points....

"The older one shows signs of wear inside, but the newer one still looks new inside?.."

I'd shoot those pumps to Enderle or someone and confirm what they are flowing on the bench to start.

I have seen several drive spuds that had a lot of runout.
I had one drive spud that actually started rounding the corners of the pump drive also to the point the pump was
actually slipping at high rpm.
Good points Bob, I'm pretty sure the "older one" is toast until a brass insert can be made and honed to size, very much like the "even older" Crower pump was done... Both of those show plenty of wear and tear, and the internal component look identical as far as impeller and idler gears, and the inside of the cover... The "newer one", or for all practical purposes, "new" one belongs to Jeremiah and will most likely go back to Hilborn for evaluation/repair. I'll keep that one, and replace it with a brand new one so he will back where he was before this fiasco started..... Funny, in a way, I never heard of any of these problems before, but at Parker there were several people that related very similar problems in the past. Everything from a slightly bent "hex" drive shaft, to a mis drilled front cover, cam end play issues, too much preload from the pump, etc etc.... I really doubt there will ever be a "dead bang, for sure" reason found, but the entire assembly will be thoroughly inspected, PRIOR to dis assembly, as well as after it's all on the bench...
Again, thanks to all for their opinions/experiences, that insight certainly helps when it comes to what to look for....
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Number....

Ray, PM me your number and a good time to call you and we can bounce some ideas off of each others head.

Paul
Paul, my number is no secret and has been plastered all over this, and other sites....
805 300 0012, pretty much anytime, but I'll know more to discus after the motor comes out and back to Bullhead.....
Ray
 

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My motor, Jeremiah's boat, the PS11.... The motor was/is new. A motor I/we (the PS89 team) started buying parts for in 2007, and now has come to fruition... Since Mike Lee was tied up with prior plans, Jeremiah agreed to run the engine in the PS 11. Although these flatbottoms may all "look" alike, it was quite a project, time, and $$$$, to make everything fit/work in a boat that usually runs a carburetor... Tank change, gear change, tach change, EGT sensor, etc etc...

All I can say is "We tried".... I'm pretty sure we tried as hard as any team to make the call, but the newer pump died on Saturday morning during a quick "test session", and quite frankly, even if we had another pump I would have hesitated to try it for fear of making it a "Triple Homicide" weekend.... I have had several opinions as to "why", but it will all come down to some careful inspection once the engine is back at the shop. Jeremiah has a bunch of work to get the boat back to the 95 MPH class he intends to run at Burley, as well as some hull maintenance....
Ray
is this boat black? and did you guys leave saturday afternoon?
 
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