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Discussion Starter #1
could it be a wear ring problem?

i was test driving my day cruiser today, ran it for about 10 minutes, when i turned around and headed back it lost 1000 rpms and bogged, i let out of it and it stalled, when i hit the key it was locked up, but had good oil pressure and temperature, forward to getting home


i pulled the plugs to check for water, it was dry, checked the oil, no water and is full, but it would turn over but still has drag, pulled the bowl and still the same results, ten i started thinking about the wear ring, i tookit apart and noticed that the rubber between the wear ring and pump housing was rubbing the impeller(see pic), but could this cause it to bog and lock solid, tomorrow im going to see if it will crank as is, it has no marks on the impeller or wear ring, only where the rubber is hanging out a little. i have a hard time believing it is the motor.

can this be my problem?m if not what can be?

 

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Sounds like a engine problem. Might pull the plugs and try turnin it over. Might as well unhook the driveline also.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
it was still binding with the plugs removed....i meant to add that i did turn it over as is, so im going tio put plugs in it tomorrow and try to start it, would a seized bearing free up over time? i can turn it over freely without straining the starter without the plugs in it now

also what may be related leading me to believe it is the front pump bearing is a loud shuddering vibration/noise while idling in the water, i only took the boat out twice and heard it both times in the idle zone. but never heard it on the trailer. it would go away with a little throttle.
 

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it was still binding with the plugs removed....i meant to add that i did turn it over as is, so im going tio put plugs in it tomorrow and try to start it, would a seized bearing free up over time? i can turn it over freely without straining the starter without the plugs in it now
Once the Jet is eliminated as a potential issue and if it wasn't hydro locked , I wouldn't spend much more time replacing plugs etc and trying to run it , I would pull the engine and pull the pan , a "piggy backed" or "lapped" rod bearing insert for example could show acceptable oil pressure , if there is actually a lower end failure every running revolution of the engine can potentially cause further damage to the crank Tom

BTW what engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Once the Jet is eliminated as a potential issue and if it wasn't hydro locked , I wouldn't spend much more time replacing plugs etc and trying to run it , I would pull the engine and pull the pan , a "piggy backed" or "lapped" rod bearing insert for example could show acceptable oil pressure , if there is actually a lower end failure every running revolution of the engine can potentially cause further damage to the crank Tom

BTW what engine?
bbc 454, if i put the plugs in and it doesnt turn over then i am going to flip it over and pull the pan, it didnt hydrolock, it has no water in the cylinders and even after pulling the plugs it wouldnt turn over, it only turned over after removing the impeller, but there was elapsed time for something to cool down and let loose.
 

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Siezed or stacked Bearings will let it turn over again after it cools off. Like others have said, pull the pan and do not start it again. Smell the oil. Usually the oil in an engine that has had bearing filure has a slight burnt smell to it.
Duane HTP
 

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bbc 454, if i put the plugs in and it doesnt turn over then i am going to flip it over and pull the pan, it didnt hydrolock, it has no water in the cylinders and even after pulling the plugs it wouldnt turn over, it only turned over after removing the impeller, but there was elapsed time for something to cool down and let loose.
Like said ,often times a "siezed" (spun rods or mains) engine will somtimes crank and even get a re-lite after cool down for a short time then sieze again , re the jet frt thrust bearing if seen these blued, dehydrated and the individual Balls split but still turn likley is the suction housing paint around the bearing would be blistered along with other symtoms if the thrust bearing had siezed

Heres the result of "continued operation" after the onset of an isolated bearing failure
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ok, im going to go ahaead and pull the motor and pan then, i cant see the thrust bearing without doing it anyways with my 3 point system. i hope its not the motor but if it is, im fixing it with HP :wink2:
 

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PASO ROBLES CA
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Jesus Tom ,who's motor is that? I cleaned up the SST and looks pretty good. And like the others said,dont waste your time,pull the motor.
 

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B1 Racing
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Disconnect the driveline if there is good access. If the bell housing covers the driveline it's probably easier to r&r the engine. Hard to get those 4 bolts through that tiny inspection cover.
 

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ok, im going to go ahaead and pull the motor and pan then, i cant see the thrust bearing without doing it anyways with my 3 point system. i hope its not the motor but if it is, im fixing it with HP :wink2:
Thats the Attitude (more HP) :))THumbsUp

Jesus Tom ,who's motor is that? I cleaned up the SST and looks pretty good. And like the others said,dont waste your time,pull the motor.
Greg thats an extreme example of a failure from my other work , but all to often what starts as a "knock" can end up as a rod thru the block if not addressed :wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
its the pump, not the motor, i pulled the motor, checked the front baring, it looked fine, pulled the pan, everything looks great,the rear bearing on the motor doesnt have a mark on it or any discoloration.... when i turned the shaft on the pump it felt "grindy" when i pulled it i thought i found a problem, where the shaft goes through the pump housing about 2"-3" behind the thrust bearing it was polished and gouged a good bit,but its just the packing rings rubbing so i still do not know whats causing it, maybe piston rings?
 

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AKA OhOneWS6
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When you were turning the motor over with the plugs out were you doing it by hand or with the starter? If you were using the starter it is possible the starter is bad and dragging. What does the thrust bearing in the motor look like? Post a couple of pics up. maybe someone will see something you are not.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
motor doesnt have a speck of metal in it, nor the filter, i was turning it over with the starter, right now it will turn over just fine for about 10 seconds then gets resistance, and the starte will ping the shiot out of the flywheel, i dont think its the starter because i felt the boat lose 1000rpms instantly then lock solid, after siting overnight it freed up a little, the thrust bearing had light scratches in it but nothing that would make it lock like it does, they look like typical wear marks..im running a compression teat tomorrow. its the only think i cant see that may be causing the problem.
 

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motor doesnt have a speck of metal in it, nor the filter, i was turning it over with the starter, right now it will turn over just fine for about 10 seconds then gets resistance, and the starte will ping the shiot out of the flywheel, i dont think its the starter because i felt the boat lose 1000rpms instantly then lock solid, after siting overnight it freed up a little, the thrust bearing had light scratches in it but nothing that would make it lock like it does, they look like typical wear marks..im running a compression teat tomorrow. its the only think i cant see that may be causing the problem.
Assuming your still suspecting the jet, pictures of the impeller skirt (fits into the wear ring) and the thrust bearing would be usefull , is the thrust bearing "dry/dehydrated" or coming apart and is there galling or metal transfer on the impeller or wear ring? just curious if you have looked up into the lower reaches of the cylinders for scoreing ?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Assuming your still suspecting the jet, pictures of the impeller skirt (fits into the wear ring) and the thrust bearing would be usefull , is the thrust bearing "dry/dehydrated" or coming apart and is there galling or metal transfer on the impeller or wear ring? just curious if you have looked up into the lower reaches of the cylinders for scoreing ?
idk what to suspect, the impeller skirt doesnt have a mark on it, the impellor was new when i got the boat and it still has the bead blasted type of texture on it,the wear ring also looks new with no marks on it, it looks fresh machined. with the impellor removed but engine still hooked to the shaft with the plugs out it would turn over for a minute then bind up, after removing the motor i could turn the pump shaft by hand and it didnt feel bad, there is no obvious wear or slack in the thrust bearing on the pump and it was greased when i got the boat and when i just took it apart. im getting pics now.
 
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