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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Looking for some info on e-85.

Im trying to figure out what to do with my motor set-up for next yr. Current motor is a 565 that i picked up as parts to put something together. I have been told that it has lived on c-19 or c-20 ( i forget) all its life. Motor has a Static compression ratio of 14.6. Anyone have any luck running this type of compression with e-85, Or how high have you had luck with,

Thanks in advance
 

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I'm at 131/2x1 on the PS 303 motor.
 

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My 572 14.5 - 1 compression ratio runs well on E85. I test the fuel for ethanol/gas ratio and adjust if neededeach time I buy from the pump to ensure 85% ethanol 15% gas. Your mileage willdecrease by 30% which can be a bummer with a lake boat. You will need a goodfuel delivery system. For a normally aspirated deal like mine you may have amidrange stumble in the engine. My engine idles fine but will stumble a bituntil about 4K rmp then it will clear up. I am told the specific gravity of thefuel has something to do with that. I am told blown or turboengines do not have this problem. The engine makes 850hp at 5900rpm. I like the fuel and would not change it.
 

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My 572 14.5 - 1 compression ratio runs well on E85. I test the fuel for ethanol/gas ratio and adjust if neededeach time I buy from the pump to ensure 85% ethanol 15% gas. Your mileage willdecrease by 30% which can be a bummer with a lake boat. You will need a goodfuel delivery system. For a normally aspirated deal like mine you may have amidrange stumble in the engine. My engine idles fine but will stumble a bituntil about 4K rmp then it will clear up. I am told the specific gravity of thefuel has something to do with that. I am told blown or turboengines do not have this problem. The engine makes 850hp at 5900rpm. I like the fuel and would not change it.
Cool..my junk is 14.1..and no stumble on 110,...junk yard deal 750hp
 

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I have done a few bigger cube BBC with 13.5 to 1, one with steel heads. They were happy as can be, but never done anything that high yet.

Master Sargent, you may want to play with your IFR or intermediate circuit to smooth out the "Dead Spot". That has nothing to do with the type of fuel. Sounds like you have one heck of a stout combo. Sounds like fun!:))THumbsUp

Paul
 

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I have done a few bigger cube BBC with 13.5 to 1, one with steel heads. They were happy as can be, but never done anything that high yet.

Master Sargent, you may want to play with your IFR or intermediate circuit to smooth out the "Dead Spot". That has nothing to do with the type of fuel. Sounds like you have one heck of a stout combo. Sounds like fun!:))THumbsUp

Paul
If the carbs are 3 circuit Dominators, I would head straight to the intermediate circuit if its happening at that RPM.
What I can't tell from the post is, is it laying down, or is breaking up.

Its its laying down, there is a possibility that its not getting on the main quick enough and running on the intermediate up to that point.
E85 is pretty viscous and it doesn't flow as easily as gasoline. You not only need more, but its harder to move.
Who did the carbs? QF conversion???



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If the carbs are 3 circuit Dominators, I would head straight to the intermediate circuit if its happening at that RPM.
What I can't tell from the post is, is it laying down, or is breaking up.

Its its laying down, there is a possibility that its not getting on the main quick enough and running on the intermediate up to that point.
E85 is pretty viscous and it doesn't flow as easily as gasoline. You not only need more, but its harder to move.
Who did the carbs? QF conversion???
Performance carb PC did the conversion. It was sent back to them and looked at with no change. Joey Grose who built the engine worked with PC carbs to try a few things with no improvements. I was told that it was typical for an E85 NA build and just learned to live with it. I have found that there is a lot of controversy when it comes to E85 conversions.
 

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Performance carb PC did the conversion. It was sent back to them and looked at with no change. Joey Grose who built the engine worked with PC carbs to try a few things with no improvements. I was told that it was typical for an E85 NA build and just learned to live with it. I have found that there is a lot of controversy when it comes to E85 conversions.
There is nothing controversial about E85 conversions, there are good ones and not so good, and bad.
I can almost bet you are lean in that spot, if not everywhere else. You wouldn't the first one with PC carbs at was. Seen couple motors go poof. 2 in one weekend------in the same boat. If you don't fix it, I suggest you don't hang out at that rpm range too long.
Not saying its not possible to be too rich in that range, but with the rich-lean tuning window of E85, and the fact that E85 conversions tend to be too lean if anything, my money says its a lean condition.



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In a drum, about $6 bucks..a 5, $10 bucks...But I know what I have...
Cool. Feel free to tell us.
I bought 5 gallons of pump, VP, Sunoco, Torco, and Ignite e85 and 114, and I am still not 100% sure whats in any of them.

You have good idea whats not in it.

A BETTER description would be, you know its the same as the last time you bought , and will be the next time you buy it. What ever it is, its the same each time.



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There is nothing controversial about E85 conversions, there are good ones and not so good, and bad.
I can almost bet you are lean in that spot, if not everywhere else. You wouldn't the first one with PC carbs at was. Seen couple motors go poof. 2 in one weekend------in the same boat. If you don't fix it, I suggest you don't hang out at that rpm range too long.
Not saying its not possible to be too rich in that range, but with the rich-lean tuning window of E85, and the fact that E85 conversions tend to be too lean if anything, my money says its a lean condition.
I bought an RPM Performance wideband o2 sensor and found the afr is around 9 to 10 at full throttle and closer to 12 at 4000 rpm
(red line is rpm) (black is O2)
 

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This is what I dislike about O2. It kind of jives with what you are saying, but only that it is leaner at 4000 than at WOT, which is understandable, and fits with what you are seeing. However, the numbers themselves don't jive.
If that is the gas scale which I think it is or you'd be dead lean everywhere, then the 4000 is pretty decent, and you are beyond turbo/supercharger rich at WOT.
If you move both numbers down equally, as if the meter is off, and ASSUME the WOT is really closer to 11.7-12.00, then you mid range part throttle 4000 is lean.
Which is what I would bet is happening.


The gauge is only as good as the engine its hooked to, (manifold/distribution , ignition power etc), and the person reading it.
Long duration, tight LSA cams can play hell with them as well. You can be throwing raw fuel out the pipe and it will tell you that you are lean.
Doesn't stop people from seeing the info from one as gospel though. Or the ECM if the O2 is hooked to one. But that's another can of worms.



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When I had Mark Sullens convert a Dominator for me I asked him about 2 vs 3 circuit and he said he would only do a 2 circuit conversion.
 

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When I had Mark Sullens convert a Dominator for me I asked him about 2 vs 3 circuit and he said he would only do a 2 circuit conversion.
Mark Sullens and Eric(Horsepower Innovations) both dislike 3 circuit Doms immensely and I can't say I blame them. They work pretty close together , Mark mostly modifying customer's carbs, Eric selling mostly new carbs. They are pretty similar in their setups, but they have some differences. Both work extremely well.
First, Mark can modify a Holley 2 circuit metering block to his specs, which is impossible with a Holley 3 circuit block. I dislike them so much even for gas, I modified my 3 circuit doms to 2 circuit years ago. I wouldn't even think about trying to make them work for E85, but a lot do. Quick Fuel only sells a 3 circuit for their E85 conversion.
Eric(HP Innovations) does have his own 3 circuit metering block with an internally independent, externally adjustable intermediate, like an idle mixture, which seems like a cool idea. But I don't know how well its working out. Its only available on his Ultra HP carbs 950/4150 and Doms. He does it with a 2 circuit carb and his metering block that has the air bleed on the block, not the main body, you can see the second screw on the side to adjust the mixture.




Bo Laws has a 3 circuit that works pretty good, but the block is completely different, and is 1/8" thicker than a Holley. The circuiting has nothing in common with the Holley or QF 3 circuit blocks.
It can work, just not very well with Holley or QF blocks.



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This is what I dislike about O2. It kind of jives with what you are saying, but only that it is leaner at 4000 than at WOT, which is understandable, and fits with what you are seeing. However, the numbers themselves don't jive.
If that is the gas scale which I think it is or you'd be dead lean everywhere, then the 4000 is pretty decent, and you are beyond turbo/supercharger rich at WOT.
If you move both numbers down equally, as if the meter is off, and ASSUME the WOT is really closer to 11.7-12.00, then you mid range part throttle 4000 is lean.
Which is what I would bet is happening.


The gauge is only as good as the engine its hooked to, (manifold/distribution , ignition power etc), and the person reading it.
Long duration, tight LSA cams can play hell with them as well. You can be throwing raw fuel out the pipe and it will tell you that you are lean.
Doesn't stop people from seeing the info from one as gospel though. Or the ECM if the O2 is hooked to one. But that's another can of worms.
The meter calibrated for E85, not gas. This is where I founda lot of controversy, in the correct afr for E85. I called and talked with manyof the top/reputable carb converters and asked the same question each timegetting a different answer from 8.6 on up to 12, and yes I asked them if theywere sure they were aware I was talking on the E85 scale meter and not gas. Searchingonline I found the same differences of opinion. I experimented with differentjets and air bleeds to make no improvements over my stumbling issue orperformance. So, I put the original air bleeds in and just jetted up/down untilI got the best performance measured by WOT RPM. I ended up with just a couplesized jets richer and that is where it has been since.
 

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Who did you're carb, what are they, if Dominators are they 2 or 3 circuit?
 

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The meter calibrated for E85, not gas. This is where I founda lot of controversy, in the correct afr for E85. I called and talked with manyof the top/reputable carb converters and asked the same question each timegetting a different answer from 8.6 on up to 12, and yes I asked them if theywere sure they were aware I was talking on the E85 scale meter and not gas. Searchingonline I found the same differences of opinion. I experimented with differentjets and air bleeds to make no improvements over my stumbling issue orperformance. So, I put the original air bleeds in and just jetted up/down untilI got the best performance measured by WOT RPM. I ended up with just a couplesized jets richer and that is where it has been since.
If the numbers are accurate, your a little fat when running 9-10 WOT. Thats near gasoline AF for a race turbo/blown deal, and still a little fat even for gas. If your gauge is accurate, then 12 to 1 at part throttle is stupid lean, Not uncommon for a 3 circuit on E85. Its nothing more than a aerosol tube stuck in the air stream. There is no real adjustment you can make on the intermediate other than the air bleed.

Who did you're carb, what are they, if Dominators are they 2 or 3 circuit?
Performance Carbs and Speed in Ontario. Same guy that did Ted's, that are now sitting on a bench somewhere. 4 motors later.
Somebody else called me a about a year ago about the same carbs on a blower deal. Dead lean everywhere and couldn't get them to fatten up. Green QF 3 circuit blocks used. I have no idea how that one worked out.

I am not fond of the idea of E85 carbs in a blown race deal, but if was going to use carbs, I could narrow down where they would come from, down to 2.



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