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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Seriously thinking about going with a Hat and dropping the carbs . My question is stay w/ e85 injected or just go alky ? I tried to stay with e85 and be able to do some lake cruising but the fuel efficiency is just not what I expected and I probably burn it at a close ratio to alky anyways . So question is to you guys that have Race/Lakerods that are running a Hat and still seeing dual usage , what are the pros and cons ?
I know the hat will be touchy on throttle , and I'm looking at a B&U Hat with the progressive linkage . And I know there is probably a bit more HP to be gained safely on a straight methanol tune ?
Talk to me Guys and Gals :(:(
 

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I put a big injector (the competitor to Enderle's big and ugly) on a NA Chevy and the throttle was twitchy. It was a drag only deal so I could live with it. I don't know how the progressive linkage will feel. I know that for basic driving I would not mind progressive linkage for a standard bird.

If you were burning close to as much E85 as you would alky then something was wrong, or you are under estimating how much alky you will burn. I love injection, but I don't know if I would do it. I have done stacks, and will do them again, but not sure about a hat.

Paul
 

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I ran the old style 4 port hilborn injection on a blown motor and loved them ! The only draw back for me was when I wanted to ski that the person driving had to know what they were doing. I made a water pump that had a drive for the pump that was low in the boat and never had to prime it to start. :cool: Going to put them back on the new motor as I love the throttle response !
GD
 

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I ran the old style 4 port hilborn injection on a blown motor and loved them ! The only draw back for me was when I wanted to ski that the person driving had to know what they were doing. I made a water pump that had a drive for the pump that was low in the boat and never had to prime it to start. :cool: Going to put them back on the new motor as I love the throttle response !
GD
Here's a pic of Gary's boat taken in the early 80's. That boat and powerplant was a great ski boat. He ran a 45 gear in it so it cruised awesome too. And no.....that's NOT a BBC, but a 429 FORD. Gary didn't mention that he ran that 4-port on gas which is a bit tougher to maintain a tuneup with varying air conditions. E-85 Is waaaay easier, so my old nostalgia Kindsvater is getting an 8-71 with E-85 QuickFuel carbs too! Jocko
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Seth , Boat hammers it hard :)devil
with only 6# boost spinning SS"A" impeller with HM inducer and stuffer plate to 6800
so far tune up looks to be spot on and has not been pushed for max performance yet . Motor is cammed to make peak HP in the 7400ish range
plans are to replace Weiand 8/71 street blower with a 10/71HH before I lean on it any further , I don't like pushing cast rotors any harder than it is now
but yea, I'm very happy with it and hopefully will hit Marble Falls race next year to get some hard data
Carbs are ok but I'd like to have a more consistent platform and easier to tune , that's why im thinking about a hat
i wanted to do a dual purpose race / lake rod but just doing a little hot footing and cruzing , it loves e85 ...I can go thru 10 gallons in less than 4miles:shock: matter of fact I just picked up a 8gallon race tank to mount in front of engine as a "reserve ". Tank that gives me approx 26-28 gallons total fuel cap. That's why I say I don't think it would burn that much more fuel on alky ...it sucks e85 at almost twice the rate it did on gas :))ThumbsDwn
 

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Big and Ugly on mine, not a whole lot of river cruising, but hitting a wake sure makes it interesting! I'd skip the progressive linkage myself
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Big and Ugly on mine, not a whole lot of river cruising, but hitting a wake sure makes it interesting! I'd skip the progressive linkage myself
Shawn , you on gas or alky ?
 

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Seth , Boat hammers it hard :)devil
with only 6# boost spinning SS"A" impeller with HM inducer and stuffer plate to 6800
so far tune up looks to be spot on and has not been pushed for max performance yet . Motor is cammed to make peak HP in the 7400ish range
plans are to replace Weiand 8/71 street blower with a 10/71HH before I lean on it any further , I don't like pushing cast rotors any harder than it is now
but yea, I'm very happy with it and hopefully will hit Marble Falls race next year to get some hard data
Carbs are ok but I'd like to have a more consistent platform and easier to tune , that's why im thinking about a hat
i wanted to do a dual purpose race / lake rod but just doing a little hot footing and cruzing , it loves e85 ...I can go thru 10 gallons in less than 4miles:shock: matter of fact I just picked up a 8gallon race tank to mount in front of engine as a "reserve ". Tank that gives me approx 26-28 gallons total fuel cap. That's why I say I don't think it would burn that much more fuel on alky ...it sucks e85 at almost twice the rate it did on gas :))ThumbsDwn
Glad it's going good for ya. Looks like you're roughly right there at the 1000hp mark. I'll bet it does hammer hard! :))THumbsUp

I love the idea of Methanol. For that matter, E85 too. However, for the type of boating I like to do (100+ miles a day), the optimum set up would be a table switching EFI deal that runs primarily on pump gas and automatically tapers into full Meth/E85 as boost increases.

Second to that option, a simple water/Methanol injection deal on top of pump gas in either carbureted or EFI application. I don't see why more guys don't use this option, even NA engines. Especially in packages that are race gas only that are also cruised. Set it to spray at whatever manifold pressure ya need and be able to gas up at nearly any gas dock or local station.

I get it though. We don't all have the same goals and there's certainly more than enough ways to get the job done. I don't think I'll ever be interested in learning to tune MFI... But one can never tell what the future holds. For the time being, I'll live that experience through you, if you choose that route. Do keep us posted. :))THumbsUp
 

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I always read the e85 threads with interest. I am on the fence with converting from pump gas. My dilemma is my boating style. I like to take long cruises on the delta with friends and hit the lakes now and then. I worry that the e85 load won't get me far enough, with nowhere on the water to refuel. I would love to put a little more boost to my set up though!

Gopher, when you say you're burning through 10 gallons in 4 miles, where is your foot? Is that WFO or just cruising?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Heatseeker, that's cruising at about 3k across the lake with an occasional quick stab for a second or two ...not really laying into it a lot ...but motor is no slouch....very healthy 555 with 2-1050 Dominators with full e85 conversions ..not just the do it yourself quick kits ...bodies and passages have been milled out w / .164 needles and seats , 4-#8 fuel lines supply bowls
on gas I could make a lap around the lake hotspots on one tank , now it takes one tank to get to cove where everyone hangs out , one tank to get back :))eek:))
 

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Yowza:shock:! It sounds like I'm going to have to stick to pump gas!

I'm running a bit less than you, turning an Agressor AA high helix mag bronze around 5800 with 5-6 lbs of boost. The motor was built to handle more(the cam peaks at 7200 IIRC) but I don't want to trust pump gas with too much more boost. I should have invested in an intercooler...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've been told EFI gets much better mileage but a B&U hat w/EFI is about $7500:))eek:))
 

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it loves e85 ...I can go thru 10 gallons in less than 4 miles :shock: :))ThumbsDwn
Are you talking about cruising fuel usage or WOT fuel consumption ?

If that's cruising fuel consumption you're way off. Should be closer to 2 mpg.
Don't tell me you removed the power valves. That would make it rich all the time.
Without an O2 sensor you will never be able to get it right.

We just put a whole Holley HP EFI system on a friends boat to run on E85.

He paid $ 1,850. for the whole set up without the injectors.
I am getting pretty familiar with this program and find a lot of positive features.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Mark have a Fast WB dual O2 sensors and yes power valves are plugged , carbs done by reputable e85 carb guru and they are not running fat . That's cruising at approx 3500/400k rpm sustained
any blown EFI and hat setup I have found is way up there in cost , the B&U setup to support up to 1200hp is at $7.5k
 

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Mark have a Fast WB dual O2 sensors and yes power valves are plugged , carbs done by reputable e85 carb guru and they are not running fat . That's cruising at approx 3500/400k rpm sustained
any blown EFI and hat setup I have found is way up there in cost , the B&U setup to support up to 1200hp is at $7.5k
I gotta tell ya Gopher, I had the same thoughts as Mark. But, it's not the subject at hand or the answer to the question you asked. 0.25 MPG at cruise with a little hot footing is an obvious indication you're not running power valves.

Typically, removing the power valves is a race only set-up for something that is only intended to be run WOT or idle... or a shortcut that allows the carburetors to work well enough (usable) on a blower without having to be boost referenced. Boost referenced power valves would allow full throttle AFR to be tuned to Max Power Rich and lean the mixture down a bit for increased economy at cruise conditions. Cost, personal goals, maybe economy isn't at the top of your list... who knows? Any reason you have is good enough for me. And whatever the reason boost referencing was not an option, removing the power valves may have been the right choice for your set-up. The end result of omitting power valves is typically a fatter mixture than needed or desired at cruise conditions, resulting in reduced fuel economy.

I'd be curious to know what your AFR's are at cruise and WOT. My guess is not all that different.

Personally, I'd look into carbs with BRPV's before MFI... But, then again, if MFI lights you up and makes you feel all fuzzy... do MFI.



Food for thought... 0.25 miles per gallon to make 200 horsepower. (Berk "A" at 4000 rpm) :shock:
It's waaaaay fat at cruise, the worst possible hull design, or you're dragging an anchor (or three) :D
Any idea what your manifold pressure (or vacuum) is at 4000?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I guess for shits and giggles I could set my gps speedo and see how far I go on one tank till it runs out (10gal) at 4000 rpm ? That would give me a pretty accurate fuel consumption reading :D
 
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