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Discussion Starter #1
Posting this for interesting discussion and nothing else........................

So a guy builds a pair of nice 10:1 pump gas 540 long blocks for a pretty nice 33' cat.

The boat owner dresses the engines, stabs the distributor, puts his own fuel system on etc. installs the engines. Engine builder tells him to run about 34 degrees of timing.

Third time out burns a head gasket in one of them.

Engine builder goes over with his timing light and finds 60 degrees of timing 35 degrees of initial timing and a 25 degree advance bushing in MSD distributor.

The engine owner is wanting to know if the engine builder is going to "stand behind it"

Hmmm........
 

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Some guy
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Sounds like he is lucky he doesn't have holes in the pistons.

I try to stress how to check "total" timing with any engine I built and sell for someone else to install. Sounds like his 35 initial was close to the 34 you recomended, but he had no clue about bringing rpm up until the distributor stopped advancing.
 

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Choking my .......
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So a guy builds a pair of nice 10:1 pump gas 540 long blocks for a pretty nice 33' cat.

The boat owner dresses the engines, stabs the distributor, puts his own fuel system on etc. installs the engines. Engine builder tells him to run about 34 degrees of timing.

Third time out burns a head gasket in one of them.

Engine builder goes over with his timing light and finds 60 degrees of timing 35 degrees of initial timing and a 25 degree advance bushing in MSD distributor.

The engine owner is wanting to know if the engine builder is going to "stand behind it"

Hmmm........
Stand behind him fockin it up :)Unsure There is a line there IMO but I would say , no .
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sounds like he is lucky he doesn't have holes in the pistons.

I try to stress how to check "total" timing with any engine I built and sell for someone else to install. Sounds like his 35 initial was close to the 34 you recomended, but he had no clue about bringing rpm up until the distributor stopped advancing.
lol did'nt say it was me :D i have this friend lol

No I did'nt sell the engine to him but to someone else. And I did explain to set the timing at 34 when it had stopped advancing. So the engine owner got the info 2nd hand. He had a friend with the proper timing light that was gonna check it for him. It did'nt get done before trying to set a new land speed record. And I did keep asking if they ever got the timing set correctly. That's how I knew to take my timing light with me to look them over.

I'm just blowing off a little steam. He's pulling them anyway to paint them red. I told him I'd put a head gasket on it for him and not to worry.
 

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21 Daytona
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So a guy builds a pair of nice 10:1 pump gas 540 long blocks for a pretty nice 33' cat.

The boat owner dresses the engines, stabs the distributor, puts his own fuel system on etc. installs the engines. Engine builder tells him to run about 34 degrees of timing.

Third time out burns a head gasket in one of them.

Engine builder goes over with his timing light and finds 60 degrees of timing 35 degrees of initial timing and a 25 degree advance bushing in MSD distributor.

The engine owner is wanting to know if the engine builder is going to "stand behind it"

Hmmm........

That sucks.... whoever set timing is responsible IMO
 

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I'm famous !
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split it for a happy customer - you by the headgaskets and he can pay you to repair back to running condition -- YOU tune :) :)bulb

So a guy builds a pair of nice 10:1 pump gas 540 long blocks for a pretty nice 33' cat.

The boat owner dresses the engines, stabs the distributor, puts his own fuel system on etc. installs the engines. Engine builder tells him to run about 34 degrees of timing.

Third time out burns a head gasket in one of them.

Engine builder goes over with his timing light and finds 60 degrees of timing 35 degrees of initial timing and a 25 degree advance bushing in MSD distributor.

The engine owner is wanting to know if the engine builder is going to "stand behind it"

Hmmm........
 

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Only perform the work after he has signed a statement that puts him at blame for the engine failure, otherwise, he may use this instance as proof that this problem (and any future problems with the engine) were your fault, since you opted to fix the problem free of charge.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
split it for a happy customer - you by the headgaskets and he can pay you to repair back to running condition -- YOU tune :) :)bulb
Yep there you go. I did show up for the maiden voyage to check it out. had a fuel leak, starter acting up (know why now) one drive wouldnt come out of reverse etc.etc. in too much of a hurry to get it to the water.

Met them down the lake after he finally got it going. belt came off the power steering engine. starter finally gave out and they idled back on one engine.

So I never got the chance to give them the once over.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's a never ending story but when you reflect on the situation it is interesting how the turn of events come about.

But, I'll fix it for him and help him tune it while insisting that he not run it until it gets final approval.
 

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Yep there you go. I did show up for the maiden voyage to check it out. had a fuel leak, starter acting up (know why now) one drive wouldnt come out of reverse etc.etc. in too much of a hurry to get it to the water.

Met them down the lake after he finally got it going. belt came off the power steering engine. starter finally gave out and they idled back on one engine.

So I never got the chance to give them the once over.
I was wondering how the starter could even turn that thing over..Guess it died tryin'.. None to subtle hint, right there.. Wouldn't it be backfiring through the carbs something nasty??
 

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I was wondering how the starter could even turn that thing over..Guess it died tryin'.. None to subtle hint, right there.. Wouldn't it be backfiring through the carbs something nasty??
I kind of kept my distance while he thrashed on it.

They popped off easily and the starter sounded out of adjustment more than fighting the engine. But you would wonder.
 

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It is what it is
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I was wondering how the starter could even turn that thing over..Guess it died tryin'.. None to subtle hint, right there.. Wouldn't it be backfiring through the carbs something nasty??
It's not uncommon to lock the distributer out on a blower motor and run what ever your advance is all the time. We also run our modified car with an alcohol motor locked out, and it has a lot of compression. ;)
 

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It's not uncommon to lock the distributer out on a blower motor and run what ever your advance is all the time. We also run our modified car with an alcohol motor locked out, and it has a lot of compression. ;)
But with 60 degrees of advance, wouln't it be firing so early, it'd be poppin' through the carbs??
 

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if I was that guy I'd sue ...........

J/K, :D

This guy must have one bad ass "system" bumping da tunes to not hear an engine eating it's self with 60 degrees of advance. Or maybe they heard it and were just trying to drive though it.....
 

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steelcomp was here
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Good to know there are still some stand up guys out there. Thanks Ron. It could have been worse. It's always been a policy of mine to be there on initial start up with a new engine. I know it's not always possible or practical, but beneficial when it can happen.
 

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Well, he is a customer. Knows almost nothing...standard procedure.
I built a small block for a corvette guy (worse than boat guys..almost) Said set total timing at 36 (yes, conservative, but a good starting place). He calls last night and said he had it at 41, but it was not so much advance it was losing power. I said "cool. Bring it back when the rods are hanging out of it, or head gasket blown and we can do it again for the same price".
Next question was "How many rpm's will it really turn without hurting it?"
I told him to put a 6000 chip in it previously (again, totally safe). Then he told me a story that he used to set one valve tighter on an old ford and he would shift when he felt the engine start to miss on that cylinder. I told him 6800 is no problem, but hyd roller cam will be rpm limiting factor (well, that and camshaft..corvette, street piece). He talked at me for another 10 minutes or so. I said..gotta go. Bring it back if when you kill it.
Oh...here is the timing story...he had it set at 36 total..good, but the idle was crappy (barely idled at 650 rpm..no sh**??) So he cranked timing in to help the idle...hell with that advance curve..it is just to damn difficult to figure out.
BTW, he set the idle to 650 because when he put it in gear, the car lunged...I said that sounds like a trans issue, not an engine issue..fix the real problem
Just so you know you are not the only one out there.
Wags
 
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