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Highaboosta
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3,431 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Thursday Aug 18
Well I put the Methanol in the tanks and fired it up on the E85 tune.
It ran great as always for a while until the lines were purged out.
I switched the "fuel energy constant" number in the FAST XFI program from .65 for E85 fuel to .43 for Methanol.
It started right up good again and it was a little lean on idle. The O2 sensor reads the methanol just as well as Ethanol.

I richened up the idle and some parts of the map for a minute and it ran good.
Idles just as smooth as Ethanol at 1000 rpm. Great throttle response.
Warmed right up same as ethanol. Didn't run cold like I expected.
Shes ready for the water.

Saturday Aug 20

I ran the boat around for a while today and it ran good on Methanol.
Temp seemed to level off around 140* where Ethanol ran 150*.

After hanging out on the beach for a while other boats were making some passes so as we left I hammered it.
It ran right up against the rev limiter at 7000 rpm and cycled a few times.
The datalog showed WOT for 4 seconds and took it from 30 to 110. Pulled real hard.
I reset the rev limiter to 7500 and tried it again. It still hit the rev limiter. At 7500 rpm it's turning the prop 12000.
The datalog showed 30# boost and that is the limit of the MAP sensor.
Maxxing out the MAP sensor wants to show a fault in the ECU so I have to disable that. :)sphss

I can certainly see the huge HP potential from Methanol.
It's hard to gauge how much fuel I used but it was noticably more than Ethanol.
Got back home and looked at the oil and doesn't look milky at all.
The fumes weren't as near as bad as I thought it was going to be either.

I need to spend a little more time running it and fine tuning the map. I've only got about 15 minutes into retuning from Ethanol to Methanol so far.
It took me a lot longer to pump the fuel out of the tanks than to switch to the Methanol tune.
I'll save this map and be able to run either fuel.
 

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Premium Member
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Mark, don't leave the Meth in the tnaks and lines. Flush the entire system running on E85. Even for a short time. The stuff is heel on alum and rubber lines. And it don't long!
Good info between the E85 and straight meth. I would say you brushed the top of the HP capabilities if the fuel. 1000 HP from 281 inches at indy was normal 40+ years ago. the stuff will make power, and live. For gods sake be carefull in that thing. 7500 in that thing is what, 85MPH?:)Unsure

PS, Have I told you I hate you EFI guys lately.:)bit



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I can see the new byline now ,twin turbo -efi 3000-hp lake boat....its just sick and I figure 88mph .. Oh and now I am cowering on the beach..:yes::yes: Good job Mark
 

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steelcomp was here
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[HR][/HR]Really awesome gets even better.:)devil
X2 what GN said...don't leave that stuff in there for long. Gives a whole new meaning to a potential AA candidate...I can be your sponsor :D
 

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Highaboosta
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Discussion Starter #5
This is one of the grey areas concerning Methanol for me.
I asked 2 others who have run it for years and they said if your running it every week don't worry about leaving the fuel in the lines and tanks.
They both told me they leave it in the tanks and lines all summer.
I've got stainless tanks and braided lines everywhere so I would think those would be compatible.
The fuel rails are aluminum though.
That would add such a huge inconvenience having to drain all that stuff every time out.
I just bought one 55 gal drum so when that's gone it's back to E85 for me. I burned about 14 gallons and went maybe 22 miles yesterday.
I'm trying to make a Methanol program for Ron to get started with and I was curious about running the fuel too. The only negative I can see about it so far is the fuel consumption.

When ever I have seen a methanol powered boat or car at the drags they were running so rich they were spitting alcohol mist out the headers, the fumes were aweful, and their oil looked all milky. I see now it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

I'm concerned about breaking the trans also with this fuel. After last years broken input shaft I had it rebuilt to hold 2000 ft lbs.
I'm sure it's at that number now. The wife has gone for many white knuckle rides in the boat before but she said that was the hardest it ever pulled even hitting the rev limiter.

I really enjoy the challenge of tuning with EFI and being able to change fuels so easy is where EFI really shines.

Another interesting point. I'm still running .035 plug gap on the 5 year old NGK plugs and the LS-2 COP ignition never missed a beat burning all that additional fuel volume.
From what i've read others close the plug gap down to .018 or so for methanol.
 

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Premium Member
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I know that you went to the 225 atomizer injectors but running methanol, they might not be big enough. Be careful with the tune. What was the duty cycle and pressure?
 

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"Need For Speed"
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Wow Mark, that thing is stepping on up. X3 on GN and Steel with the Methanol. As per your buddies, you can leave the Methanol in for a week with no problem, but I don't even recomend that, because at some point the time will stretch out and the damage will be done. When running Methanol, my suggestion is to flush the fuel system within a day of returning home and lube her down.

I surely don't agree with the statement to leave the methyl alcohol in all summer. There is one big difference in their car and our boats. We are subject to a lot of moisture when we are on the lakes and the methanol will definately absorb it.

What I have seen is kind of a three phases of the methanol. 1. Clear liquid, good fuel, 2. it begins to turn to a clear gel, very corrosive to metal parts, 3. it dries to a white powder, plugs everything and the damage is done. At the second or third point in a constant flow injector or carburetor, you can clean the mess out of the lines, pump and nozzles, but it is quite an extensive cleanup and pain... and the corrosion has happend. You can't back up unless you replace everything. On this note, I can't imagine what a mess it could make out of EFI injectors.

All I am saying is, if I had a nice of equipment as you do, I would certainly flush the methanol from the system within a couple of days. Now if you go to 94% nitro... just make sure you have viton o-rings in the system and you can leave it in there with little maintenance:)

Hope this helps.

Gear
 

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Highaboosta
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Discussion Starter #8
I know that you went to the 225 atomizer injectors but running methanol, they might not be big enough. Be careful with the tune. What was the duty cycle and pressure?
This is where I need to spend some more time tuning.
I made a datalog but hitting the rev limiter throws any valid WOT information out the window.
It's a fuel cut rev limiter.
Besides that (like a dumb ass) I didn't have "injector duty cycle" enabled in the datalogging information.
I need to get it to a point where it will level off at a WOT rpm so I can verify the Lambda reading and tune from there.

I am still running 45# base fuel pressure so if the duty cycle is high I will increase the fuel pressure to get it where it needs to be.
 

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Very cool! Looking forward to seeing that beast run in a couple of weeks ar Hardy Party assuming you will be there. So is there anyone drag racing at the sand bar that can give you a run? Very impressive to say the least.

Craig
 

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Highaboosta
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Discussion Starter #11
What I have seen is kind of a three phases of the methanol. 1. Clear liquid, good fuel, 2. it begins to turn to a clear gel, very corrosive to metal parts, 3. it dries to a white powder, plugs everything and the damage is done. At the second or third point in a constant flow injector or carburetor, you can clean the mess out of the lines, pump and nozzles, but it is quite an extensive cleanup and pain... and the corrosion has happend. You can't back up unless you replace everything. On this note, I can't imagine what a mess it could make out of EFI injectors.
Gear
So does some significant evaporation have to take place for this to happen or water absorption sets it off ?
 

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Mark ,either talk to the Amato's or Michael Thomas in the area I dont know about this eating stuff up I mean its not docked in the lake for weeks -sounds odd to me.I might be wrong I dunno but I think its sitting in alot of mfi boats even now.Maybe geterdone will chime in with ....oh never mind sorry.Want to hear more on this whole thing tho ...
 

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Village Idiot
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Mark, I know we had some issues with leaving it in the system up to a month in a dry but hot area. Since then I have just cleaned it out after every outing. With a Funny Car it is easier than with your system (I would imagine anyway).

Paul

On a side note, we ran our plugs at .035 gap but that was NA.
 

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Highaboosta
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Discussion Starter #14
talk to the Amato's ...
I did talk to Tony and he said he doesnt have any problems with leaving the fuel in the system when you run it regularly.

I run the boat every weekend or more. I'll keep a close eye on it.
 

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This is one of the grey areas concerning Methanol for me.
I asked 2 others who have run it for years and they said if your running it every week don't worry about leaving the fuel in the lines and tanks.
They both told me they leave it in the tanks and lines all summer.
I've got stainless tanks and braided lines everywhere so I would think those would be compatible.
The fuel rails are aluminum though.
That would add such a huge inconvenience having to drain all that stuff every time out.
I just bought one 55 gal drum so when that's gone it's back to E85 for me. I burned about 14 gallons and went maybe 22 miles yesterday.
I'm trying to make a Methanol program for Ron to get started with and I was curious about running the fuel too. The only negative I can see about it so far is the fuel consumption.

When ever I have seen a methanol powered boat or car at the drags they were running so rich they were spitting alcohol mist out the headers, the fumes were aweful, and their oil looked all milky. I see now it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

I'm concerned about breaking the trans also with this fuel. After last years broken input shaft I had it rebuilt to hold 2000 ft lbs.
I'm sure it's at that number now. The wife has gone for many white knuckle rides in the boat before but she said that was the hardest it ever pulled even hitting the rev limiter.

I really enjoy the challenge of tuning with EFI and being able to change fuels so easy is where EFI really shines.

Another interesting point. I'm still running .035 plug gap on the 5 year old NGK plugs and the LS-2 COP ignition never missed a beat burning all that additional fuel volume.
From what i've read others close the plug gap down to .018 or so for methanol.
you can leave the fuel in there longer than a week as long as you seal off your vent on your fuel tank so no moisture is sucked in.from the air it draws water like crazy and then it clouds up. use a upper end lube also. I leave mine in my K boat, and pro stocks for weeks on end but fog the engine down after the weekends
 

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If your braided lines have rubber inside you will have problems. Found that out 40 years ago with an Injected alky funny car. The stuff dries out rubber until it is hard and cracks, then little chunks of it start pouring into the injector nozzles. Found that out the hard way.
 

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"Need For Speed"
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So does some significant evaporation have to take place for this to happen or water absorption sets it off ?
IMO, I don't think so as this happened to us in a Alky Injected dragster, and the gel and dried powder were in the entire system, lines, pump, barrel valve and nozzles, which were air tight. The fuel was kept in sealed and air tight containers until used. I just don't take a chance with it. And yes, the fuel system on a dragster or funny car is easier to clean than that in a boat.

Some of the lube/additive packages may prevent or slow this process, but you cannot run any additives in a class race vehicle where the fuel is checked. The additives won't pass.

Gear
 

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Did Tony bother to mention the fuel tank it ate through and split, catching the boat AND him on fire.
I can remeber the pits at Ascot after the races were over and the entire area turned into pickling plant. Every tank drained, every engine ran on gas and Marvel, every nite. And they were running them every weekend. It seems to be the hardest on alum, including all the fuel AN fittings if your using them. And that red and blue ano is no match for the stuff.
Stainless tanks and teflon fuel lines with hard ano fittings and you may get away with leaving it in the tanks for extended periods. It would come down the injectors at that point. Also, since you are not subject to a fuel check, consider some sort of top oil lube in it, like Marvel or an alky top lube oil from some place like Manhattan oil. Meth not only has zero lubrication, it is the best solvent this side of spray carb cleaner. Your intake valves are closing will zero oil film on the lower part of the stem every cycle. You injectors will love you for it too. It may allow you to hold the fuel in the system longer but don't hold me to that one.
One thing is for sure, it isn't ethanol



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No Sandbar To Far
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I did talk to Tony and he said he doesnt have any problems with leaving the fuel in the system when you run it regularly.

I run the boat every weekend or more. I'll keep a close eye on it.
I'm 100% sure they mix a fuel lube in the drum like Uplon® Fuel Lube E85 sure sounds like alot less trouble. :wink2:
 
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