[holorinhal]

Well I wanted to get the questions I had for these fixtures out of the other thread.

I would like those involved to please explain the principles behind these two fixtures.

Bigamist

Busby

 

[holorinhal]

Bigamist

Bigamist, Yours is the fixture I was looking for.
Corect me if I am wrong, But I think the round tube represents the crankshaft, and the two plates welded on represent the front and rear faces of the engine block?
Now My question, are the plates set up at the corect measurement from the centerline of the crank to the holes in the block? does the botom edge of the plates represent the main bearing registers,where it apears on diagrams that the measuerments are taken for the holes in the block?
Are the holes in the plates acurate to the holes in a block?
Is the center shaft insert adjustable? Could You please elaberate on this piece? Sorry for all the questions and thank's.....Hal

 

[holorinhal]

Busby

Busby ,Could You please explain how You'r fixture works.

The pipe or tube representing the crankshaft, do you slide the block foreward and aft to determine the engine placement?
Do You have a part of a driveline welded on the pump end of the pipe?
How do you determine the engine side end of the drive line without the flexplate in place. is ti just by measurement?
What type of spacer did You use in the crank journals ,to keep the pipe centered?
Is there any thing on the front end of the pipe?
And Most importantly What points on the block do You use to measure up the plates for hieght/ Do You use the CL of the crank and cam and the main bearing registers to define the botom edge of the plates and the mounting holes?
Can You please elaberate on how this is used to fab the engine plates? I understand the pipe keeps the engine in line with the pump, But where do You go from there to build the engine plates? Again sorry for all the questions, And I really appreciate the answers....Hal

 

[Sleeper CP]

For your one off thing it might be a bit much to spend.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/replica-engines.htm

I have two for smblk Fords and access to an FE and 460. I've asked them twice to get a 460 short block made, as of yet I don't think they have. I'll buy one when they do. These things are cool. They weigh under 20 lbs and you can bolt anything to them. I ended up trading one of my small blocks out to an engine shop for some work I needed done. They used it to mock-up two race cars and it saved them time and effort.

I even got my dad a replica AOD tranny for his hot rod to mock up.

Maybe you can split one with a friend or shop ?

S CP

 

[Oldsquirt]

Sleeper, the problem with those replica blocks is that they dont accurately reproduce the main bearing saddles. Without those, you don't have an accurately identifiable crankshaft centerline. Since that is the reference point used to locate block to pump, the plastic blocks aren't terribly useful. I spent a bit of time trying to come up with a simple way to make one work. Ended up making fixture to use a borrowed bare block.


Here is another angle of the fixture used by Bigamist. He can correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe that is Jim Brock's fixture. Jim has mentioned willingness to rent it out. Call him at Cyclone Marine in Pacoima, Ca or send him a PM.

 

[BIGAMIST]

Sleeper, the problem with those replica blocks is that they dont accurately reproduce the main bearing saddles. Without those, you don't have an accurately identifiable crankshaft centerline. Since that is the reference point used to locate block to pump, the plastic blocks aren't terribly useful. I spent a bit of time trying to come up with a simple way to make one work. Ended up making fixture to use a borrowed bare block.


Here is another angle of the fixture used by Bigamist. He can correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe that is Jim Brock's fixture. Jim has mentioned willingness to rent it out. Call him at Cyclone Marine in Pacoima, Ca or send him a PM.

Yes it belongs to Jim.





.

 

[Sleeper CP]

Sleeper, the problem with those replica blocks is that they dont accurately reproduce the main bearing saddles.IMG]

I see what you mean. As far as the rigging for a car you just bolt a belhousing or tranny to them. Got it.

S CP

 

[holorinhal]

Sleeper, the problem with those replica blocks is that they dont accurately reproduce the main bearing saddles. Without those, you don't have an accurately identifiable crankshaft centerline. Since that is the reference point used to locate block to pump, the plastic blocks aren't terribly useful. I spent a bit of time trying to come up with a simple way to make one work. Ended up making fixture to use a borrowed bare block.


Here is another angle of the fixture used by Bigamist. He can correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe that is Jim Brock's fixture. Jim has mentioned willingness to rent it out. Call him at Cyclone Marine in Pacoima, Ca or send him a PM.

Oldsquirt, am I correct with the idea that the bottom of the plates on the fixture represent the Main bearing register and not the pan rail as the crankshaft CL is taken at the point of the register?

If You look at the diagram below there is a .12 differance from the register to the pan rail.
The deck height is taken from the main bearing register as well as all the height locations of the fastener holes on the face and rear of the block.

Sorry I am just a very currious Person Who loves the technical aspects of gizzmo's and how they accurately work.

I live in Vegas , So it would not be worth the drive time and cost to go out and rent the thing from Jim . If He were closer I might go for it.
I could probobly build one with less expensive materials than it would cost to go get it.
I do have a bare block ,so the cost efectiveness of buying a plastic mock up block would not be worth it either.....Hal

 

[Oldsquirt]

Hal, don't "over think" it. What is important is the location of mounting holes on the end plates relative to crank centerline. If you want details on that fixture just give Jim a call....or maybe he will happen to see this thread.

BTW, I was the one who posted that diagram many years ago. Have you noticed the critical info that is missing from it?

 

[Jim Brock]

fixture

3/8 " was milled off the front and rear of a block, the 3/8 end plates were bolted to the block, the tube in the center is the crank, they were welded together, and another smaller tube with a set bolt and spline were slid inside to ajust to your drive shaft length, measure your drive shaft, set length, bolt your mounts to the end plates, slide it on the pump and drill as easy as 1 2 3

 

[Riverbottom]

3/8 " was milled off the front and rear of a block, the 3/8 end plates were bolted to the block, the tube in the center is the crank, they were welded together, and another smaller tube with a set bolt and spline were slid inside to ajust to your drive shaft length, measure your drive shaft, set length, bolt your mounts to the end plates, slide it on the pump and drill as easy as 1 2 3

Jim did you make that ? It is a nice piece of equiptment. Reminds me of fixtures that Kaiser had at Alpha in the old days.

 

[BUSBY]

Busby ,Could You please explain how You'r fixture works.

The pipe or tube representing the crankshaft, do you slide the block foreward and aft to determine the engine placement?
Do You have a part of a driveline welded on the pump end of the pipe?
How do you determine the engine side end of the drive line without the flexplate in place. is ti just by measurement?
What type of spacer did You use in the crank journals ,to keep the pipe centered?
Is there any thing on the front end of the pipe?
And Most importantly What points on the block do You use to measure up the plates for hieght/ Do You use the CL of the crank and cam and the main bearing registers to define the botom edge of the plates and the mounting holes?
Can You please elaberate on how this is used to fab the engine plates? I understand the pipe keeps the engine in line with the pump, But where do You go from there to build the engine plates? Again sorry for all the questions, And I really appreciate the answers....Hal

The fitting/pipe belongs to CS, it's used for getting the proper alignment of the block.

Wood bushings were made to slide over the pipe and go into the main journals.

Side to side it all measurments, as is the entire project.

Where the block goes is based off of how far from the transom you want it. Once you have that set, the block is set on wood & remove the chains.

Then you make your templates for the plates.

 

[holorinhal]

Thank You very much for the explinations of the Jig's, I really do appreciate it.
I do understand now how they work.
That is some very nice enginuity.
The nice thing about this equipment is that they are reusable.....Hal

 

[holorinhal]

BTW, I was the one who posted that diagram many years ago. Have you noticed the critical info that is missing from it?

Oldsquirt I have studied the drawing but I do not see what is missing.
Can You please enlighten Me?....Hal

 

[holorinhal]

The fitting/pipe belongs to CS, it's used for getting the proper alignment of the block.

Wood bushings were made to slide over the pipe and go into the main journals.

Side to side it all measurments, as is the entire project.

Where the block goes is based off of how far from the transom you want it. Once you have that set, the block is set on wood & remove the chains.

Then you make your templates for the plates.

Busby;
I see You are using a level on the block. Should the boat be level,across the stringers, when seting up to measure for the plates?....Hal

 

[BUSBY]

Busby;
I see You are using a level on the block. Should the boat be level,across the stringers, when seting up to measure for the plates?....Hal

you can zero the digital level to the boat, do not zero to the stringers as they could be off a little and even a little off makes it look way off.

bottom line, you always want that level to be right on the same spot every time you unbolt and bolt the plates when doing your trial fittings.

All of this has pretty much come to a stop for me until the divorce it final. Not going to install anything into a boat that is listed as community property. Her family lurks here and they are reporting to the court everything I do and or sell in spam.

Hate to do this, but let's not talk about my boat anymore please.

 

[Sleeper CP]

Hate to do this, but let's not talk about my boat anymore please.

What boat ? bulb

S CP

 

[BUSBY]

What boat ? bulb

S CP

exactly

 

[GAWnCA]

Hate to do this, but let's not talk about my boat anymore please.

DAMN! You have a boat? Must be R/C (really Crappy) huh?

 

[holorinhal]

Hal, don't "over think" it. What is important is the location of mounting holes on the end plates relative to crank centerline. If you want details on that fixture just give Jim a call....or maybe he will happen to see this thread.

BTW, I was the one who posted that diagram many years ago. Have you noticed the critical info that is missing from it?

Yea I think I figured it out after useing it all day. There is no reference to crank cl, side to side for the holes and there is no reference at all to the right upper hole at the bottom