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Discussion Starter #1
Here is a puzzler for all you Ford guys.
At 3,200 rpm's I have 60 psi coming out of the pump and 20 psi at my outlet on the intake manifold.
I am using the same set up as my last engine down to the hoses and fittings. I am using a D1V block all fresh machine work, BUT I am using different heads (Kaase P-51's) and a Victor 460 manifold without the water crossover on the rear. I am also using SCE copper head gaskets.
Without tearing this thing apart where could my problem be?
I took the outlet pressure using the 3/4 on the front with my outlet hose still attached from the thermostat plate. It is 1/2 inch line.
I am building pressure somewhere between the block and intake manifold. Could the lack of the rear crossover cause that?
I am stumped and really don't want to tear this thing down if I can help it.
Thanks in advance, Alan
 

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Here is a puzzler for all you Ford guys.
At 3,200 rpm's I have 60 psi coming out of the pump and 20 psi at my outlet on the intake manifold.
I am using the same set up as my last engine down to the hoses and fittings. I am using a D1V block all fresh machine work, BUT I am using different heads (Kaase P-51's) and a Victor 460 manifold without the water crossover on the rear. I am also using SCE copper head gaskets.
Without tearing this thing apart where could my problem be?
I took the outlet pressure using the 3/4 on the front with my outlet hose still attached from the thermostat plate. It is 1/2 inch line.
I am building pressure somewhere between the block and intake manifold. Could the lack of the rear crossover cause that?
I am stumped and really don't want to tear this thing down if I can help it.
Thanks in advance, Alan
This is gonna sound retarded, so forgive me in advanced, (I am not a Ford guy), it sounds like the head gaskets are upside down..Been there and dunnit..:)st

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not retarded at all and I haven't ruled it out, but I was careful to put the words "front" that were embossed in the gasket to the front of the engine with the word on top. Believe me it would not be the first time I screwed up.
Alan
 

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Not retarded at all and I haven't ruled it out, but I was careful to put the words "front" that were embossed in the gasket to the front of the engine with the word on top. Believe me it would not be the first time I screwed up.
Alan
Beating the dead pony already, but....did it say front and top? :D

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nope, and that is what has me worried. I just took it for granted that you would be able to read the word when it was installed.
Alan
 

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Nope, and that is what has me worried. I just took it for granted that you would be able to read the word when it was installed.
Alan

Makes sense to me, I don't know, someone will chime in that is more familiar with Fords. I have built them before, just not super familiar with the water passages...

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
 

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Here is a puzzler for all you Ford guys.
At 3,200 rpm's I have 60 psi coming out of the pump and 20 psi at my outlet on the intake manifold.
I am using the same set up as my last engine down to the hoses and fittings. I am using a D1V block all fresh machine work, BUT I am using different heads (Kaase P-51's) and a Victor 460 manifold without the water crossover on the rear. I am also using SCE copper head gaskets.
Without tearing this thing apart where could my problem be?
I took the outlet pressure using the 3/4 on the front with my outlet hose still attached from the thermostat plate. It is 1/2 inch line.
I am building pressure somewhere between the block and intake manifold. Could the lack of the rear crossover cause that?
Thanks in advance, Alan
Ford intakes do not have a water crossover in the rear; the reason that the passage is in the head is simply because the heads are interchangable to either cylinder bank, thereby the rear water passage becomes a front water passage when the head is swapped from one bank to the other...in other words, they are all front passages.

Oldsmobile seems to be the biggest offender when it comes to excess water pressure pushing water into the block from between the head and intake manifold flanges....but Ford and Chevy can do it too. Use sealer around the water passeges before installing the intake. Then, after torquing the intake to spec, let it sit for a few hours (or overnight) which will allow the gaskets to relax, and then retorque the intake manifold bolts once again. Lastly, intake manifold bolt torque is something that should be regularly checked on jet boats.

Copper head gaskets are known for leaking water in higher hp engines. Aluminum head flatness is more critical than iron head flatness, so to speak. The block and head machining finish is also important when using copper head gaskets.

LO
 

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Ford intakes do not have a water crossover in the rear; the reason that the passage is in the head is simply because the heads are interchangable to either cylinder bank, thereby the rear water passage becomes a front water passage when the head is swapped from one bank to the other...in other words, they are all front passages.

Oldsmobile seems to be the biggest offender when it comes to excess water pressure pushing water into the block from between the head and intake manifold flanges....but Ford and Chevy can do it too. Use sealer around the water passeges before installing the intake. Then, after torquing the intake to spec, let it sit for a few hours (or overnight) which will allow the gaskets to relax, and then retorque the intake manifold bolts once again. Lastly, intake manifold bolt torque is something that should be regularly checked on jet boats.

Copper head gaskets are known for leaking water in higher hp engines. Aluminum head flatness is more critical than iron head flatness, so to speak. The block and head machining finish is also important when using copper head gaskets.

LO
Hey Lakes Only, did I miss something?. It sounded to me, even after re-reading the first post, that the issue is a huge pressure drop between the inlet to the cooling of the block to the outlet (like 40#) of the manifold, this seems excessive to me. Am I wrong?

My big Chevy runs about 20# in and 15# on the dump line (water shoots out about 6' when running hard)

I don't think its leaking internally (yet).

I am actually really curious as to the problem...

Thanks!

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Lakes Only, did I miss something?. It sounded to me, even after re-reading the first post, that the issue is a huge pressure drop between the inlet to the cooling of the block to the outlet (like 40#) of the manifold, this seems excessive to me. Am I wrong?

My big Chevy runs about 20# in and 15# on the dump line (water shoots out about 6' when running hard)

I don't think its leaking internally (yet).

I am actually really curious as to the problem...

Thanks!

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
Gary, you hit the nail on the head. I am not getting water into the oil or engine, I am building enough pressure to blow a freeze plug.
I am running a 1/2" bypass regulator and pulled the reading after that point.
I am thinking of going to a 1" bypass but am still curious why the change. The only difference is the engine and I had no issues last year with the iron head engine.
 

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Gary, you hit the nail on the head. I am not getting water into the oil or engine, I am building enough pressure to blow a freeze plug.
I am running a 1/2" bypass regulator and pulled the reading after that point.
I am thinking of going to a 1" bypass but am still curious why the change. The only difference is the engine and I had no issues last year with the iron head engine.

No you did not!!!!!It's Glenn brotha! ;)

Gary is a piece of shit! :)violent44

I am thinking there is a blockage in the heads, are there any pipe plugs in the block "under" the manifold?



GT :)hand (Not going there!)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No you did not!!!!!It's Glenn brotha! ;)

Gary is a piece of shit! :)violent44

I am thinking there is a blockage in the heads, are there any pipe plugs in the block "under" the manifold?



GT :)hand (Not going there!)
Sorry, I thought you were a Gary but not "the" Gary. It won't happen again.
There was nothing I would consider abnormal on the block, everything else was purchased new. The SCE gaskets were a special order to get .060 thickness to bring the compression down a bit. I am going to call SCE in the morning and see what they say. Maybe i am worried about nothing and just need to bypass more water. I just am not willing to take a chance with this engine until I can get it figured out.
 

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Your bypass valve and overboard water line and outlet need to be a minimum of 3/4". 1/2" can be too much restriction.
 

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Hey Lakes Only,... the issue is a huge pressure drop between the inlet to the cooling of the block to the outlet (like 40#) of the manifold, this seems excessive to me. Am I wrong?

Thanks!

GT :)hand (Not Gary Taylor :mad:)
Oops, my mistake. I skimmed the post and believed what I was reading was the typical "water in the crankcase" concern. Hence, my first post... :)hammers Sorry about that, guys.

Upon reading the other posts, I agree that head gaskets could be a culprit. They were both installed with the word "Front" facing forward and the word "front" facing up on both cylinder banks??? Also, Alan you said you are "running a 1/2-inch bypass regulator and pulled the reading after that point." What is the pressure just before the regulator?

Lastly, if possible try plumbing a pressure gauge in a block drain so that you can check both sides of the head gaskets (above & below)....and check both cylinder banks if/when you do this.

LO
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oops, my mistake. I skimmed the post and believed what I was reading was the typical "water in the crankcase" concern. Hence, my first post... :)hammers Sorry about that, guys.

Upon reading the other posts, I agree that head gaskets could be a culprit. They were both installed with the word "Front" facing forward and the word "front" facing up on both cylinder banks??? Also, Alan you said you are "running a 1/2-inch bypass regulator and pulled the reading after that point." What is the pressure just before the regulator?

Lastly, if possible try plumbing a pressure gauge in a block drain so that you can check both sides of the head gaskets (above & below)....and check both cylinder banks if/when you do this.

LO
On thinking about the head gaskets, I checked them for alignment and am pretty sure that is the way they were installed But I've got a bad case of CRS.
On the pressure, I will have to install a T to pull a reading before the bypass, I will also get readings at the points you suggest. I plan on installing a 3/4" bypass and engine dump just as a precaution.
In case I do have to pull the heads, can the SCE selfsealing gaskets be reused? I lost my job since starting this and have limited funds now.
Thanks, Alan
 

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sorry for the thread jack but how do you like those p-51 heads Im thinking about those on my next motor
 

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Discussion Starter #17
sorry for the thread jack but how do you like those p-51 heads Im thinking about those on my next motor
So far I am really happy. If you look at what your getting for the money and the flowcharts they are hard to beat for what I built. I wanted something that would make around 800 HP plus take a 200 shot, I worked with the guys at Kaase racing and they were great about answering my stupid questions and getting me what I needed for the build.
Alan
 
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