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Discussion Starter #1
This last season I`ve tired the fel pro gaskets on my BBC it`s a dart block with Merlin heads I think the part number was 1157.. long story story they seem to be leaking between cylinders each time I`ve pulled the heads. I`ve place a straight edge on the block as well as the heads and their both flat... These gaskets are a 3 piece deal that is riveted together and I think they suck ass compared to other`s I`ve used in the past... I need a recommendation for the replacement`s that I should try this go around... thanks
 

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Ain't Right Racin
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steelcomp was here
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X2 Never a problem that wasn't tuner(me) related.
I don't know of an 1157 FelPro, but I've heard others say the Felpro MLS were thin between cyl's. I've never seen that problem with Cometics. Depending on the application, you may not even need a MLS gasket. The Felpro composites worked awfully well for decades before MLS gaskets ever showed up. Is this boosted, or real high rpm/high compression? If not, you might just go back to the traditional 1017 or 1047/1057 (large bore) for marine.
 

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"Need For Speed"
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I have seen some of the Felpro MLS type gaskets seep a little to the point that I no longer put them on direct. I now drill out the rivets and spray each layer with a gasket spray sealant and then stacked them in the original arrangement on the engine. This seems to have cut down on gasket seepage problems.

Gear

PS: Once they begin to leak under combustion pressures, like between the cylinders, it appears they begin to erode or distort the surfaces. If they are sealed good in the beginning, then they will stay with you. I don't particularly recomend such, but we had an engine that we were trying multiple combinations on a couple of years ago and had the heads off several times and just cleanded the gasket, resprayed them and kept going.
 

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The single most important thing with any of the MLS type gaskets is FINISH!!!!!!! It not only has to be dead ass flat, it needs to be very very smooth.
Some time ago Steel brought up the point of the machinist himself. The right type of maching, with the right cutter, run with the right speed can still result in crap sealing if he tilts the cutter head too much to avoid a back cut. This results in a dished or scooped cut, and it just so happens to fall right down the center of the head, and really shows itself between cylinders.
The second most important think is CLEANLYNESS!!!!!!! It has to be spotless. I run a razor blade across the deck like I am scrapping paint till I am crtain the is no foreign matter on the deck, then wipe it down with iso alcohol. You absolutely can not get the surface too clean.

The eary FelPro MLS gaskets had a sticky sealant on them with a waring not to touch it, and to install the gasket immediately after removing package. Now, they are just like a Cometic. I use a sealer on this type. I like Valco Hylomar Spray, or brush. Its not easy to find and its a little pricey. The next best thing(IMO) is MoPar #4318035AA. Like Gearhead posted, if you really want it sealed, take the rivots out and spray a both sides of the out layers. You can actually just remove the rivots for one side and fan the gasket open and spray it.
However, like Steel posted, do you really need a MLS?If I didn't need them I wouldn't run them. The Perfomance FelPro gasket is a damn good gasket and its almost dummy proof. They are also much friendler to alum heads. I have hammered the hell out of the PERFORMANCE Felpro composite gasket and never failed one between cylinders. It was always at the top of the cylinders with the missing top bolt.

Bottom line, if you leaking between cylinders, double check the block CLOSELY, or change gaskets to the composite type if you aren't running seriously high cylinder pressures.



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This last season I`ve tired the fel pro gaskets on my BBC it`s a dart block with Merlin heads I think the part number was 1157.. long story story they seem to be leaking between cylinders each time I`ve pulled the heads. I`ve place a straight edge on the block as well as the heads and their both flat... These gaskets are a 3 piece deal that is riveted together and I think they suck ass compared to other`s I`ve used in the past... I need a recommendation for the replacement`s that I should try this go around... thanks
Have you looked into these yet.
https://www.flatoutgroup.com/docs/2010-PDF-E-Catalog-Cover.pdf
 

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Cometics. I just don't have any issues with engine builders or end use customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks guys we`re going back to cometics but might have to run another set of fel pro to get thru the first race but I guess I should`ve put some Indian slack crap on the gasket and it might not have leaked so I was told. Also it wasnt as bad as I thought accordling to place I use, so that was good news. New blower and MFI and 20 ibs of boost it should move I hope.....

Once again thanks for the education...
 

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Cometic has their new bitchin' 4 layer gasket for high boost applications. Like 20 psi.
Check out their web side.
Wags
I forgot what they call em. It isn't "the bitchin series" HA
 

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1017 vs 1037 Felpro FYI only...

Something I discovered quite by accident when trying to get this last engine, (a gen 5) to seal along the bottom water passages, is that the 1017 is not designed for the gen 5, but the 1037 will work on all, MK IV, gen 5, and gen 6 engines and heads........I didn't have a 1017 to compare side by side so I'm not sure how one works on everything, and the other just MK IV...Also, the 1017 has a 4.540 bore, quite large for a 4.310 cylinder, while the 1037, which is also recommended for Marine use, has a smaller 4.370 bore which is much closer to the actual 4.25-4.31 sizes.....
Ray
PS the sealing issue was because of the customer's desire to use all GM pieces, including sticky head gaskets, that came on the 454 HiPO factory deal.... The problem was the gen 5 block has triangular water ports along the bottom, but all the gaskets have a smaller round hole and the gen 5 block/head only has about 1/4 to 5/16ths inch sealing area below those ports.... The GM gasket leaked water out between the head and the block, just a few drops, but leaking none the less.... The Felpro 1037, and some Permatex #1 applied along that area sealed it right up..... I normally add a small bead of high heat silicone around all the water ports on marine stuff, both below the gasket, and above, directly under the head... Never had an internal leaking issue, (except twice with copper gaskets), and after well over 100 assemblies, NEVER had one leak like this one externally!!! Then there was an issue with the gen 5 timing cover and the front motor plate, and of course the "stinger" deal I started a thread about....But, those are another story......
 

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Ray, put down the tools and step away from the engine. That is all COMMON knowledge.

Here is the site that will explain it all for you. Read carefully and pay attention and it is pretty clear.

Never ever use a gasket designed strictly for a MK IV on a Gen motor or you will fry the damn thing. BUT, you can use any GEN gasket on a MK motor.
Pay very close attention to then water ports at the front of the block. The MK motors have no open ports up front, the GENs do. YOU MUST!!!!!! use a gasket on the GENs that does not allow water to pass thru that front port. On the MK it doesn't matter if there is an opening in the gasket, because there is no opening in the block!

Pay very close attention to page 2

LINK: FelPro tech



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Common?

Ray, put down the tools and step away from the engine. That is all COMMON knowledge.

Yeah Bob, I admit this gen 5 was a first...Kinda why I allowed him to purchase the GM stuff that failed...I did a "little" research to discover the 1037 Felpros, and then wondered to myself why I'd been using the 1017s with the bigger bore?... They always worked, but clearly aren't the best choice for a MK IV with a 4.310 bore..... I had questioned Felpro about this issue a few engines back when both the heads and the block were o ringed and the 1037 exposed portions of the o ring grooves..(No, they were not matched up as a ring, and a receiver groove, just two components that weren't designed to be used on the same engine, bought used).....With any luck at all I'm done messing with the gen 5 deal and can get back to the River Pig boat.....
Ray
 

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Ray, put down the tools and step away from the engine. That is all COMMON knowledge.

Yeah Bob, I admit this gen 5 was a first...Kinda why I allowed him to purchase the GM stuff that failed...I did a "little" research to discover the 1037 Felpros, and then wondered to myself why I'd been using the 1017s with the bigger bore?... They always worked, but clearly aren't the best choice for a MK IV with a 4.310 bore..... I had questioned Felpro about this issue a few engines back when both the heads and the block were o ringed and the 1037 exposed portions of the o ring grooves..(No, they were not matched up as a ring, and a receiver groove, just two components that weren't designed to be used on the same engine, bought used).....With any luck at all I'm done messing with the gen 5 deal and can get back to the River Pig boat.....
Ray
don't get too far ahead of yourself. The 1017 is fine for stock iron heads and some after market heads like Edelbrock and GMPP heads. But you use a 1017 gasket on a Dart, AFR, and specially a Canfield, and you will hate life. I bet there is alot of people that smack talk FelPros because they used a 1017 when they shouldn't have.
Sure, it fits the bore just bitchin. Then take the gasket and lay it on a modern alum aftermarket head and see how well it fits the chamber. You'll see it hangs into the chamber quit a bit. 99% of the after market alum heads have a chamber for a 4.5 bore. If the gasket hangs into the chamber, its going to get smoked, AND the sealing fire ring of the gasket is nowhere near where it needs to be on the head. You can't seal a head properly if the fire ring is hanging in the chamber.

Its NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE BORE SIZE.



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Confused again??

don't get too far ahead of yourself. The 1017 is fine for stock iron heads and some after market heads like Edelbrock and GMPP heads. But you use a 1017 gasket on a Dart, AFR, and specially a Canfield, and you will hate life. I bet there is alot of people that smack talk FelPros because they used a 1017 when they shouldn't have.
Sure, it fits the bore just bitchin. Then take the gasket and lay it on a modern alum aftermarket head and see how well it fits the chamber. You'll see it hangs into the chamber quit a bit. 99% of the after market alum heads have a chamber for a 4.5 bore. If the gasket hangs into the chamber, its going to get smoked, AND the sealing fire ring of the gasket is nowhere near where it needs to be on the head. You can't seal a head properly if the fire ring is hanging in the chamber.

Its NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE BORE SIZE.
If the 1017 has a bore of 4.54, why would it be an issue with a 4.5 bore? Is it because the gasket bore isn't round??....You're scaring me now Bob, I used the 1017s on the 496's AFR heads!!! AFR said they would work, Scott said they would work.....
Ray
PS page 24 of the AFR 2007 catalog specifically says: Felpro 1017.....???????
 

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If the 1017 has a bore of 4.54, why would it be an issue with a 4.5 bore? Is it because the gasket bore isn't round??....You're scaring me now Bob, I used the 1017s on the 496's AFR heads!!! AFR said they would work, Scott said they would work.....
Ray
Sorry Ray, major boo boo. The 1037. basically, you cannot use a gasket strictly based on the cylinder bore anymore. The head is a major factor in chosing a gasket. You have to use the bore size the head wants. Sorry for the scare.



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Too small?? .

Sorry Ray, major boo boo. The 1037. basically, you cannot use a gasket strictly based on the cylinder bore anymore. The head is a major factor in chosing a gasket. You have to use the bore size the head wants. Sorry for the scare.
So it is the "marine" gasket, 1037 (4.370 bore), that can't be used on the aftermarket stuff, right???
Ray
PS It's waaaaay to late to scare me like that!!! I really didn't want to take apart another engine before the heads even got warm.....
 
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