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Chevy Volt: The Car From Atlas Shrugged Motors
Patrick Michaels, 03.16.11, 6:00 PM ETThe Chevrolet Volt is beginning to look like it was manufactured by Atlas Shrugged Motors, where the government mandates everything politically correct, rewards its cronies and produces junk steel.

This is the car that subsidies built. General Motors lobbied for a $7,500 tax refund for all buyers, under the shaky (if not false) promise that it was producing the first all-electric mass-production vehicle.

At least that's what we were once told. Sitting in a Volt that would not start at the 2010 Detroit Auto Show, a GM engineer swore to me that the internal combustion engine in the machine only served as a generator, kicking in when the overnight-charged lithium-ion batteries began to run down. GM has continually revised downward its estimates of how far the machine would go before the gas engine fired, and now says 25 to 50 miles.

It turns out that the premium-fuel fired engine does drive the wheels--when the battery is very low or when the vehicle is at most freeway speeds. So the Volt really isn't a pure electric car after all. I'm sure that the people who designed the car knew how it ran, and so did their managers.

Why then the need to keep this so quiet? It's doubtful that GM would have gotten such a subsidy if it had been revealed that the car would do much of its freeway cruising with a gas engine powering the wheels. While the Volt is more complicated than the Prius, and has a longer battery-only range, a hybrid is a hybrid, and the Prius no longer qualifies for a tax credit.

In other words, GM was desperate for customers for what they perceived would be an unpopular vehicle before one even hit the road. It had hoped to lure more if buyers subtracted the $7,500 from the $41,000 sticker price. Instead, as Consumer Reports found out, the car was very pricey. The version they tested cost $43,700 plus a $5,000 dealer markup ("Don't worry," I can hear the salesperson saying, "you'll get more than that back in your tax credit!"), or a whopping $48,700 minus the credit.

This is one reason that Volt sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February. GM announced a production run of 100,000 in the first two years. Who is going to buy all these cars?

Another reason they aren't exactly flying off the lots is because, well, they have some problems. In a telling attempt to preserve battery power, the heater is exceedingly weak. Consumer Reports averaged a paltry 25 miles of electric-only running, in part because it was testing in cold Connecticut. (My engineer at the Auto Show said cold weather would have little effect.)

It will be interesting to see what the range is on a hot, traffic-jammed summer day, when the air conditioner will really tax the batteries. When the gas engine came on, Consumer Reports got about 30 miles to the gallon of premium fuel; which, in terms of additional cost of high-test gas, drives the effective mileage closer to 27 mpg. A conventional Honda Accord, which seats 5 (instead of the Volt's 4), gets 34 mpg on the highway, and costs less than half of what CR paid, even with the tax break.

Is there anything this administration touches anything but an abject FAILURE?:)sphss:)hand:)hand:)hand
 

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Nice try in attempting to blame this on Obama, but GM started developing the Volt long before the current administration ever took office.:dumb_ass::)hand
 

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Nice try in attempting to blame this on Obama, but GM started developing the Volt long before the current administration ever took office.
---> :dumb_ass::)hand <---
Ohhhhhhh the VITRIOL... Didn't your boy say to cool that???

 

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couple of things-

The AC is mostly "free" because it has to run anyway to keep the batteries cool.

The mechanical connection when engaged increases efficiency over a complete DC driven system so I have no issue with it.

Obama has nothing to do with this.

The volt is revolutionary.

No EV can go so far on "Electrics" only.

Your comparison to an accord doesnt take into account he EV range of the volt

The Accord burns gasoline every mile of every trip where the volt does not.

If you drive roundtrip 20 miles a day- the volts cost for "fuel" is about 10-20 cents.

Lets say the range is really 25 miles before the gas kicks in- if you have charging at your destination then its 50 miles of nearly free driving.



Uncle Dave
 

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One thing Uncle Dave, the batteries need to be charged some how and if they are being chagred at the house, the cost of elctricity is more than 10-20Cents. Throw in the fact that even if you only drive 20 miles, you're near full range and needa charge that is going to burn fuel.

Sure this car is an innovation and someday when it becomes what they'd like everyone to think it is now, they'll have something. Until then it's just like every other attempt to force "green" technology on us prematurely, a novelty item that might work someday after long hours of perfecting and lots and lots of money thrown at it, but a bad joke if someone has to try and depend oin it for everyday travel.

Another of the myriad of problems with our government in that they think just because they make legislation and deadlines, all great things shall come to pass. Alternative tansportaition and energy will come in it's time and I for one am sick and damned tired of inept politicians and forward thinking pipe dreamers trying to cram their "follies" down my throat and making me pay for them with asinine legistaltion and bureaucratic edicts from the EPA and others.:mad:

Of course when the public doesn't buy 'em, the government will, trying to show and example of perceived green prudence, and the taxpayers will again have to pay for 1,000's of these clunkers and the backup transportaiton necessary to get jobs done. Good ol' Joe taxpayer foots the bill yet again andthen gets double dipped on top of it having to buy real vehicles. I propose right now any elected officlal or bureaucrat that spends good public money on these failures be fired and charged with ripping off the tax payer.:|err
 

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Nice try in attempting to blame this on Obama, but GM started developing the Volt long before the current administration ever took office.:dumb_ass::)hand
WASHINGTON: Obama’s budget proposal this week includes a $7500 tax credit for all electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf or the Chevy Volt. Such proposals have popular support and seem on first glance a benefit to consumers and taxpayers alike. Upon further examination this particular initiative neither improves the environment nor helps the economy, but instead amounts to a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. Let’s look at it.
 

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WASHINGTON: Obama’s budget proposal this week includes a $7500 tax credit for all electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf or the Chevy Volt. Such proposals have popular support and seem on first glance a benefit to consumers and taxpayers alike. Upon further examination this particular initiative neither improves the environment nor helps the economy, but instead amounts to a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. Let’s look at it.
Brad, in the OP you complain that the Volt is a POS and isn't the vehicle Chevrolet originally claimed it to be, briefly mention the tax credit, and then attempt to blame this on the current administration. Then, in this follow up to my reply, you complain about the proposed $7500 tax credit in Obama's proposed budget, and assert that it is nothing more than a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. What would you consider tax credits for corporations like big oil and agriculture? What about the mortgage tax credit that encourages Americans to take out loans from banks (mostly owned by the wealthy;)) to purchase property? I agree tax credits are bullshit, but wonder: are you against all tax credits, or just those proposed by Obama?:)hand:)hand
 

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Brad, in the OP you complain that the Volt is a POS and isn't the vehicle Chevrolet originally claimed it to be, briefly mention the tax credit, and then attempt to blame this on the current administration. Then, in this follow up to my reply, you complain about the proposed $7500 tax credit in Obama's proposed budget, and assert that it is nothing more than a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. What would you consider tax credits for corporations like big oil and agriculture? What about the mortgage tax credit that encourages Americans to take out loans from banks (mostly owned by the wealthy;)) to purchase property? I agree tax credits are bullshit, but wonder: are you against all tax credits, or just those proposed by Obama?:)hand:)hand
:popcorn:
 

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Brad, in the OP you complain that the Volt is a POS and isn't the vehicle Chevrolet originally claimed it to be, briefly mention the tax credit, and then attempt to blame this on the current administration. Then, in this follow up to my reply, you complain about the proposed $7500 tax credit in Obama's proposed budget, and assert that it is nothing more than a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. What would you consider tax credits for corporations like big oil and agriculture? What about the mortgage tax credit that encourages Americans to take out loans from banks (mostly owned by the wealthy;)) to purchase property? I agree tax credits are bullshit, but wonder: are you against all tax credits, or just those proposed by Obama?:)hand:)hand
You seem to have missed the part where even with the bribe no one will buy the pieces of shit.:)sphss:)hand:)hand


Did you notice the Dolt in Volt though?:p
 

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couple of things-

The volt is revolutionary.

It's evolutionary, it was supposed to be revolutionary.

Lets say the range is really 25 miles before the gas kicks in- if you have charging at your destination then its 50 miles of nearly free driving.
Uncle Dave
Yes. It's great if you can plug in at home at nite. I agree the Volt is a marvel. But I'm bothered that GM b.s.'d long and hard on this.

You seem to have missed the part where even with the bribe no one will buy the pieces of shit.:)sphss:)hand:)hand
Did you notice the Dolt in Volt though?:p
This concerns me, I thought there 20,000 already ordered. Are they not selling, because production is slow?
 

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You seem to have missed the part where even with the bribe no one will buy the pieces of shit.:)sphss:)hand:)hand


Did you notice the Dolt in Volt though?:p
So I take it from your response, you are either unable or unwilling to answer my question.:)hand
 

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I agree tax credits are bullshit, but wonder: are you against all tax credits, or just those proposed by Obama?:)hand:)hand
So I take it from your response, you are either unable or unwilling to answer my question.:)hand
I'll bite. I'd prefer no tax credits, because it simplifies the code. I'd prefer even more a flat tax or nat'l sales tax.
With the otherwise awful tax code we have now, I'm open minded on the earned income credit.
 

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Somewhat neglected outcome...

Fast forward to 2035. 80+% of the vehicles on the road are electric. The power grids are all overloaded each evening when everyone plugs in for a recharge. The coal fired plants are polluting the air because since the accident of 2011, no new nuclear plants have be built. The coal industry was put out like a spoiled terrier when it became necessary for politicians to be "green" to get elected, so research into clean coal lost funding.
Natural gas is the proverbial stepchild because it requires drilling into mother earth and oil may be found accidentally.. Oh, and all those discarded batteries and "green" light bulbs have polluted the land fills beyond ever using the land for anything else..... IMO, it looks pretty grim. Is this really the best the "minds" of tomorrow can do?
Ray
 

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Fast forward to 2035. 80+% of the vehicles on the road are electric. The power grids are all overloaded each evening when everyone plugs in for a recharge. The coal fired plants are polluting the air because since the accident of 2011, no new nuclear plants have be built. The coal industry was put out like a spoiled terrier when it became necessary for politicians to be "green" to get elected, so research into clean coal lost funding.
Natural gas is the proverbial stepchild because it requires drilling into mother earth and oil may be found accidentally.. Oh, and all those discarded batteries and "green" light bulbs have polluted the land fills beyond ever using the land for anything else..... IMO, it looks pretty grim. Is this really the best the "minds" of tomorrow can do?
Ray
hil:) Meanwhile little ole Iceland leads the globe in Hydrogen technology/infrastructure... Amazing isn't it???

Great points Ray... :)
 

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One thing Uncle Dave, the batteries need to be charged some how and if they are being chagred at the house, the cost of elctricity is more than 10-20Cents. Throw in the fact that even if you only drive 20 miles, you're near full range and needa charge that is going to burn fuel.

Sure this car is an innovation and someday when it becomes what they'd like everyone to think it is now, they'll have something. Until then it's just like every other attempt to force "green" technology on us prematurely, a novelty item that might work someday after long hours of perfecting and lots and lots of money thrown at it, but a bad joke if someone has to try and depend oin it for everyday travel.

Another of the myriad of problems with our government in that they think just because they make legislation and deadlines, all great things shall come to pass. Alternative tansportaition and energy will come in it's time and I for one am sick and damned tired of inept politicians and forward thinking pipe dreamers trying to cram their "follies" down my throat and making me pay for them with asinine legistaltion and bureaucratic edicts from the EPA and others.:mad:

Of course when the public doesn't buy 'em, the government will, trying to show and example of perceived green prudence, and the taxpayers will again have to pay for 1,000's of these clunkers and the backup transportaiton necessary to get jobs done. Good ol' Joe taxpayer foots the bill yet again andthen gets double dipped on top of it having to buy real vehicles. I propose right now any elected officlal or bureaucrat that spends good public money on these failures be fired and charged with ripping off the tax payer.:|err

Lets do the math.

The Volts battery pack holds 16 KWH of energy at 80% full.

The battery pack will be allowed to drain down from 80% to 30% before the gas-generator kicks in.

That means about 8 KWH will get you the 40 miles.

I pay 15 cents a kilowatt hour in my tier from the DWP.
Many people pay considerably less per KWH.

Thats 1.20 vs 4.00 for a gallon of gas for that first 40 miles.

Lets say the range is actually 30 miles on batteries- then apples to apples the volt is by far and away cheaper for short commutes and in town driving. About 1/4 as expensive.

I could offset this cost easily and further with a few solar panels.

Why is it "a bad joke if someone has to try and depend on it for everyday travel."?

I do not understand that statement.

Agreed the systems sucks- but I have to separate that from the vehicle.

I stand by my statement - The volt is unique and revolutionary.

Uncle Dave
 

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Lets do the math.

The Volts battery pack holds 16 KWH of energy at 80% full.

The battery pack will be allowed to drain down from 80% to 30% before the gas-generator kicks in.

That means about 8 KWH will get you the 40 miles.

I pay 15 cents a kilowatt hour in my tier from the DWP.
Many people pay considerably less per KWH.

Thats 1.20 vs 4.00 for a gallon of gas for that first 40 miles.

Lets say the range is actually 30 miles on batteries- then apples to apples the volt is by far and away cheaper for short commutes and in town driving. About 1/4 as expensive.

I could offset this cost easily and further with a few solar panels.

Why is it "a bad joke if someone has to try and depend on it for everyday travel."?

I do not understand that statement.

Agreed the systems sucks- but I have to separate that from the vehicle.

I stand by my statement - The volt is unique and revolutionary.

Uncle Dave
Breaking things down like that is not going to convince the many naysayers who don't want to see the simple truth here in the PRF. In fact, I would not be suprised if you got this response from Tex about your logic::D
I am glad someone can see the Volt for what it really is and what it can be, instead of just complaining about this new green technology being shoved down our throats.:))THumbsUp The simple fact is a car like the Volt could be quite usefull and make economic sense if your commute is not that far. Whatever the purchase price of the car is, I read GM is offering leases for just $350 a month. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
 

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2 part discussion basically.


I get the issues with the system per se-
The "system" is half this discussion.

the car itself is the other part.

Im only commenting on the car.

I think when people understand the details behind the cars design and why it is revolutionary- they will be more inclined to see it as such.
(as well I have an opportunity to learn why they may be opposed)

Only by knowing the facts can one form a valid opinion.

Tex once properly educated about the data behind the car will be able to reach his own conclusions.

Uncle Dave
 

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Fast forward to 2035. 80+% of the vehicles on the road are electric. The power grids are all overloaded each evening when everyone plugs in for a recharge. The coal fired plants are polluting the air because since the accident of 2011, no new nuclear plants have be built. The coal industry was put out like a spoiled terrier when it became necessary for politicians to be "green" to get elected, so research into clean coal lost funding.
Natural gas is the proverbial stepchild because it requires drilling into mother earth and oil may be found accidentally.. Oh, and all those discarded batteries and "green" light bulbs have polluted the land fills beyond ever using the land for anything else..... IMO, it looks pretty grim. Is this really the best the "minds" of tomorrow can do?
Ray
Actually the grid stands more to gain by the introduction of battery powered cars than it does to lose.

Most will choose the 110v overnight approach to charging vs the 220 fast charge.
This does not put much of a strain at all on the grid.

The load of the high noon sun and air conditioners makes the morning and evening car "load" pale in comparison.

With bi directional capability the grid can act as a power station now and prevent the electricity companies from firing up a co-gen plant to power a suburb or area by back-feeding the cars into it.

1000 cars feeding a small amount into the grid for 20 minutes to a half an hour can save tons of money and cost. 1000 cars feeding 1KWH into the grid is the equivalent of a 1 megawatt powerplant- and so the multipliers go....

Of course they will pay you for this, and you wont be charging during that time, but basically every home having an 8KW - 16 KW of energy storage strengthens our grid and makes us much less prone to catastrophic power failures.

Uncle Dave
 

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IT IS ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!!! HE created the Volt, so it must be a piece of crap....and if it can't do EVERYTHING that the best gas powered cars can do, then it is a total failure...Can it tow a 6000 lb boat? no...Failure! Can it cover 500 miles before needing to fill up? No...Failure! Can it lay a really hot lap around the 'Ring? No....Failure!!! Was Obama the prez whne it came out? Why, yes he...Failure!

What is amazing to me is that some people think that things weren't so good before Obama was prez...but I don't believe that....Everything in this country has always been perfect.....then Obama comes along and the poor bank execs have to watch as Obama ruins the banks and the economy.....and what about that earthquake and the melt-downs....only has happened while Obama was pres......coincidence? I don't think so....
 

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Backfeeding?

Actually the grid stands more to gain by the introduction of battery powered cars than it does to lose.

Most will choose the 110v overnight approach to charging vs the 220 fast charge.
This does not put much of a strain at all on the grid.

The load of the high noon sun and air conditioners makes the morning and evening car "load" pale in comparison.

With bi directional capability the grid can act as a power station now and prevent the electricity companies from firing up a co-gen plant to power a suburb or area by back-feeding the cars into it.

1000 cars feeding a small amount into the grid for 20 minutes to a half an hour can save tons of money and cost. 1000 cars feeding 1KWH into the grid is the equivalent of a 1 megawatt powerplant- and so the multipliers go....

Of course they will pay you for this, and you wont be charging during that time, but basically every home having an 8KW - 16 KW of energy storage strengthens our grid and makes us much less prone to catastrophic power failures.

Uncle Dave
Under what set of circumstances will the car's batteries be "backfed" into the power grid??... Will the cars be running off gas at that time. I don't understand how charging a battery can backfeed a power system...AND, by 2035 there should be millions of them using existing power grids as the enviornuts won't allow additional power plants/upgraded systems...
Ray
Ray
 
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