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I didnt think that the BIG wind generators turned fast enough to catch a bird/eagle off guard but I guess they do...

WHen I have seen them they are turning pretty slow... :hmmm:
 

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I didnt think that the BIG wind generators turned fast enough to catch a bird/eagle off guard but I guess they do...

WHen I have seen them they are turning pretty slow... :hmmm:
There is a farm here by a friends house. I watched them one day and calculated the tip speed to be around 200 mph...
 

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I didnt think that the BIG wind generators turned fast enough to catch a bird/eagle off guard but I guess they do...

WHen I have seen them they are turning pretty slow... :hmmm:
Eagles are so stupid they are probably chasing the blades. Its a miracle of God they have survived this long.

When I was on Attic Island in Aluetians, there were two types of birds on the island, Ravens and Eagles. The eagles were definitely the short bus birds. Ravens would make them look like stooges daily. It was one of the few forms of entertainment on the island watching them.



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Can anyone show me a commercial wind power producing field that has paid for itself without government grant money?

We should let innovation, invention and exceptional thinking be rewarded rather than continuing to throw huge monies at marginal "green energy" sources just because they provide an alternative.
 

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Whitewater Pass has been producing for over 25 years...:))THumbsUp
I don't think that was the question, but it sure as fuck was the typical liberal answer, Don't bother to look at the balance sheet, or the bottom line, its making fucking power and that's all that matters. Dipshits like you that never owned a company or hired employees have no clue how YOU drove the country 15 trillion in debt, or even care, YOU are getting yours, and that all that matters.
Solyntra generated power to the tune of 500,000.00 per kilowatt. and you morons think that was a steal.



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Can anyone show me a commercial wind power producing field that has paid for itself without government grant money?

We should let innovation, invention and exceptional thinking be rewarded rather than continuing to throw huge monies at marginal "green energy" sources just because they provide an alternative.

And I think we can add that some very nice landscapes are being urbanized and ruined that were otherwise majestic and friendly to local wildlife.
windmills.jpg
 

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And I think we can add that some very nice landscapes are being urbanized and ruined that were otherwise majestic and friendly to local wildlife.
View attachment 377289
Looks like the Tehachapi pass on the 58. One of my favorite windmill farms. Shit load of windmills, all spinning in the wind, but not hooked to anything because the liberal tree huggers got a court injunction to stop the power lines that put them on the grid. Sound typical of the morons?



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I used to work for a company that constructed many of the wind farms across the US.

Doctor, to answer your question with a question: What commercial power plant of any kind have you seen pay for itself without government support? You can go ahead and cross coal and nuclear off your list.

Much of the gov't support for wind farms comes in the way of the PTC (production tax credit). It provides a $.022 credit per kWh generated for 10 years. It is production based only...so it does not extend benefits to any inop turbines or wind farms that do not have a PPA (power purchase agreement).


Also, the bird killing by wind farms isn't wrong. But, here's a number to chew on. In Michigan alone between 1987-2008 774 Eagles were killed by vehicles (about 37/yr) as opposed to 67 Eagles in 5 years by wind farms (about 14/yr).

Are wind farms the answer for energy? NO (especially since all the power generated in the US is on-demand/instant it could never be). It takes a very large wind farm to equal the generation produced by one coal plant...but they are still (as they were always intended) a decent supplement.



RE the landscape: take that up with the landowner who leased the land...they control where wind farms do and don't go.
 

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Whitewater Pass has been producing for over 25 years...:))THumbsUp
You missed a very important part of the question there shue. I know, I saw some of the initial offerings for participation in some of those fields and they all included government subsidies. Every one of them.

Maybe, while you are actually in answer mode you can explain to me why none of the major energy corporations are scrambling to put these up with their own money?

(hint: It's because the technology doesn't pay for itself in a stand-alone environment.)
 

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You missed a very important part of the question there shue. I know, I saw some of the initial offerings for participation in some of those fields and they all included government subsidies. Every one of them.

Maybe, while you are actually in answer mode you can explain to me why none of the major energy corporations are scrambling to put these up with their own money?

(hint: It's because the technology doesn't pay for itself in a stand-alone environment.)
Who do you consider major?

Florida Power and Light (the renewable division is now called NextEra), BP, Iberdrola, and E.On have all put up "their own money".


Again, tell me ANY commercial power plant type that doesn't receive government subsidies.
 

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You guys are missing out on the really big question. Can you imagine the smelly, tree hugging, hairy armpit/legged, hippie chick that sat there counting the kills for five years!!

 

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Also, the bird killing by wind farms isn't wrong. But, here's a number to chew on. In Michigan alone between 1987-2008 774 Eagles were killed by vehicles (about 37/yr) as opposed to 67 Eagles in 5 years by wind farms (about 14/yr).
I rest my case. Sparrows fly into glass windows, eagles fly into block walls. Wonder how many of those eagles killed by vehicles were parked cars.

I swear, God created that bird as a joke, and pre TV and radio entertainment, or something that the other birds could get a chuckle out of watching.



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Good joke Wolfie.


But, actually wind farms are required to complete bird studies. These include keeping an accurate count of all birds found dead within a certain footage from each wind turbine.


I personally always thought of birds flying into the blades as a Darwin kind of thing. I mean...if an Eagle with a 90" wingspan thinks it's going be ok tangling with a blade that is 120' long, I don't think that bird should be mating. Some environmentalists have said the blades confuse the birds...well...maybe, but if you can spot a field mouse from 1 mile away, shouldn't you be able to see a very large spinning rotor?

There have also been aircraft "sightseeing" (read: trying to play) that have flown into turbines (both the towers and rotors). When those are written up, the people are called stupid and irresponsible for flying unsafe. When a bird does it...suddenly it's the turbine's fault.
 

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Good joke Wolfie.


But, actually wind farms are required to complete bird studies. These include keeping an accurate count of all birds found dead within a certain footage from each wind turbine.


I personally always thought of birds flying into the blades as a Darwin kind of thing. I mean...if an Eagle with a 90" wingspan thinks it's going be ok tangling with a blade that is 120' long, I don't think that bird should be mating. Some environmentalists have said the blades confuse the birds...well...maybe, but if you can spot a field mouse from 1 mile away, shouldn't you be able to see a very large spinning rotor?

There have also been aircraft "sightseeing" (read: trying to play) that have flown into turbines (both the towers and rotors). When those are written up, the people are called stupid and irresponsible for flying unsafe. When a bird does it...suddenly it's the turbine's fault.
:clapping: OMG that was some funny shit.

When I was a kid in school, I never understood why Ben Franklin thought the Eagle was a bad choice for the national bird because it was too stupid. Then I spent 2 months in Alaska watching the dumbass bird, and the entertainment the ravens provided at the eagles expense, and I fully understood.

Maybe the founding father knew it would representative of the morons in this country 200 years later.
Everytime I see Obama in front of the Presidential seal I chuckle a little. Like birds of a feather.



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Everytime I see Obama in front of the Presidential seal I chuckle a little. Like birds of a feather.
You just made me snort beer. In the spirit of this thread, I think you are guilty of alcohol abuse.



I will tell a story. There was a time during the construction phase of a project that my company was responsible for reporting any dead birds found within 500' (I think it was 500' anyway) of a wind turbine. Well, I found one (an owl). I found one because a land owner had shot it over 1/4 mi away from the tower, but it flew near the tower to die. Anyway, it was within 500' - I still had to report it. So I know at least 1 bird statistic was totally bogus, but because of the requirements of reporting - it's still a statistic.

I watched another owl fly right smack into the boom of a Liebherr LR1400. The crane wasn't running, and hadn't been for 2 days due to wind. The boom was yellow. It didn't die...but it appeared to be thoroughly confused as to why the boom had the unmitigated gall to be in his flight path, and why a 400 ton crawler crane stopped him so quickly.



Another, unrelated bird death story. Have you ever seen a bird hit a 74" propeller spinning at 2600 rpm? I have. I couldn't tell you what kind of bird it was...except that it had feathers. Lots of feathers. That, to me is more understandable. The aircraft was smaller (compared to a turbine) and moving at 170 mph. I can see how that could "sneak up on him".
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I used to work for a company that constructed many of the wind farms across the US.

Doctor, to answer your question with a question: What commercial power plant of any kind have you seen pay for itself without government support? You can go ahead and cross coal and nuclear off your list.

Much of the gov't support for wind farms comes in the way of the PTC (production tax credit). It provides a $.022 credit per kWh generated for 10 years. It is production based only...so it does not extend benefits to any inop turbines or wind farms that do not have a PPA (power purchase agreement).


Also, the bird killing by wind farms isn't wrong. But, here's a number to chew on. In Michigan alone between 1987-2008 774 Eagles were killed by vehicles (about 37/yr) as opposed to 67 Eagles in 5 years by wind farms (about 14/yr).

Are wind farms the answer for energy? NO (especially since all the power generated in the US is on-demand/instant it could never be). It takes a very large wind farm to equal the generation produced by one coal plant...but they are still (as they were always intended) a decent supplement.
The point was, this was supposedly "green" energy what wouldn't have a significant impact on wildlife. WELL IT DOES!!! And the "greenies" aren't saying a THING about this atrocity. The same thinking kept farmers from raising food because of the "Delta Smelt". Are you hungry yet? You will be!

LOL!!! :|err
 

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Speaking of owls, the evironazi's are so thick here in Oregon, they saved a non native spotted owl at the price of about 4 counties income ( and Barry took our O & C funds away )... But we sure had lots of forest fires this summer that destroyed the tree's the whacko's were trying to save... Stupid is an understatement!!!!!
 
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