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149 BGJ-Willis Power 540
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
March 23, 2014

Hello People,

The economy has had a drastic toll on recreational sports and particularly boat drag racing.
When the various clubs tried to seek a universal membership and class to race, the half second brackets took a huge dis-connect and were virtually eliminated from the sport.
Brackets were / are the back bone for the NJBA and should be re-instated. :shock:

The 10.5, 9.5, 8.5 brackets will improve boat count drastically and that would have a direct effect on registration fees and possible a purse sense the NJBA is non-profit.
This thing about five boat in any one area before a trophy / awards is issued is not what the NJBA was about; the NJBA was a place for the guy who didn’t approve of the 7.70 rules and liked the half second brackets.

Would you return to boat racing if the NJBA re-instated the “brackets with the half seconds”, and a two boat requirement to receive an award?

The half second brackets would no-longer require category’s like the “catch all” Super Eliminator.

What do you suggest to improve the boat count that's reasonable? :)Unsure

Please don’t respond to this thread if you have never boat raced with a professional organization like the NJBA, CDBA Lucas, ADBA, etc.

Willis
 

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149 BGJ-Willis Power 540
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538 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Bring Back Bracket Half Second Advocate

are you on the board willis?
March 23, 2014

Hello People,

I used to be a board member, and had a direct link to starting the RR at a reduced rate for the NJBA.
I don't think you need to be a NJBA Board Member to air some positive feedback on ways to improve the sport. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that there was a major drop of participants from the line up when the half seconds brackets were eliminated from the NJBA line up.

The categories where the full second are active and the “Pro Teams” will always have racers who can upgrade as required. :secret:

Not looking for a drawn out debate whether or not if it’s good for your club, just saying that it was good for the racers who don’t care for the 7.70 rules.

Willis
 

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Not going to happen Willis. 1/2 second brackets are dead weight. Many argue several pro classes are dead weight. Why would we add more classes when we can't fill the ones we have?

Super eliminator fills the void of any 1/2 second brackets.

Super eliminator does not have do deal with the 7.70 rules.

NJBA has a class for anything you could race. If you can't find a class in NJBA you are looking for other reasons.
 

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149 BGJ-Willis Power 540
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538 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Positive comments

Not going to happen Willis.
March 23, 2014

Hello People,

Kjell,

There were several board members who were just like you a few years back and they said the same thing about RR until the racers got behind the idea. You seem to be very quick to interject something negative before there is a reasonable amount of time passed for people to grind over the idea!
You as a board member shouldn’t even be posting your negative thoughts yet. If the half brackets according to you don’t have a chance, what do you recommend that will increase the boat count this year, because what you did last year didn’t work. :)Unsure

Here again people, what say you on the half second brackets. I do know if there are just three boats to return, that’s better progress than last year.

Please people, try not to air your feelings, let the racers have a say, and after a few days, a week or so, it will be apparent what the racers are happy with.



Willis
 

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Willis you would have to convince a promoter to nearly double the number of purses to pay out. NJBA or not it's a tough sell.
 

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Not going to happen Willis. 1/2 second brackets are dead weight. Many argue several pro classes are dead weight. Why would we add more classes when we can fill the ones we have?

Super eliminator fills the void of any 1/2 second brackets.

Super eliminator does not have do deal with the 7.70 rules.

NJBA has a class for anything you could race. If you can't find a class in NJBA you are looking for other reasons.
Why would you say half second brackets are dead weight? I would like to see a 9.50 bracket and also a 8.50 bracket. Super eliminator is a good class to race, but its the only class you can run if your boat wont run the number in a .0 bracket to have a chance.
Not everyone wants to put nitrous on their boat to run the number and nobody like to slow down.

Just my opinion.
 

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1/2 seconds

I might bring my drag boat out of mothballs to run the 8.50 class, not going to put nitrous to run 8.00 class
 

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Not going to happen Willis. 1/2 second brackets are dead weight. Many argue several pro classes are dead weight. Why would we add more classes when we can fill the ones we have?

Super eliminator fills the void of any 1/2 second brackets.

Super eliminator does not have do deal with the 7.70 rules.

NJBA has a class for anything you could race. If you can't find a class in NJBA you are looking for other reasons.
what he said
I like to compete in 20 boat fields not two:cool:
 

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I might bring my drag boat out of mothballs to run the 8.50 class, not going to put nitrous to run 8.00 class
Why not run super eliminator? 20 plus boat field every race. Get to race against anyone and everyone. Guys who have won super eliminator or the hi points pretty much can claim they beat the best of the best. What's to lose here? The best class IMO for a guy who wants to run flat out every race.


Example,

Guy has a 8.20 boat or a 9.20 boat in perfect air. Really not enough to run the 8.0 or 9.0 bracket, but He doesn't want to slow down for a slower bracket. He can run his flat out every lap and dial in what he is capable or running in good air or bad air.

I'd like to hear a downside to this situation. I'm all ears. Jim Brock, let's hear it, I'm interested in an honest opinion why you won't run super eliminator?

FUTS, NJBA is the one of the only associations that allows you to run more than one class per event with a single boat. Getting to run two or three classes is like having your cake and eating it too.

If its another class you'd like to run, then just run exhibition. I've run it, it's kind of fun, low stress, get to test parts, see what works and what doesn't.

Willis, I'm sorry it's your opinion that I'm responsible for a low boat count last year. It's a public forum. My opinion vs. your opinion. I may not like yours and you may not like mine. Who is to say one's is right or wrong or positive or negative. Last time I checked the man upstairs gets the final say... I'm not going to accept or deny blame for low boat count, but what I can say is that we need more racers. I along with many others have put in lots of time and money to make races happen. I spend money out of my own pocket and never ask for reimbursement for these races. I buy my own fuel and tow around equipment, I've spent my own money to fuel up equipment for the race, I buy my own hotel rooms. In fact most of the board members do. Without most of them we'd be long gone. Bakersfield is an awesome place to race, from a racers viewpoint. Spectators view point is well, I don't know if I'd say the same.


We have racers that put up prize money from their own pockets and yet we still have low boat count. We had over $10,000 in payouts in the september race last year, still was a low boat count.

For lots of guys the economy is hurting people, its tough for lots of guys right now, it's beyond my control or your control.
 

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149 BGJ-Willis Power 540
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538 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Similar nuts and bolts going at it

March 23, 2014

Hello People,

As competitors, I actually don’t like lining up with Un Blown Fuel boats, but I understand the reasoning that facilitates. :)Unsure just prefer to line up with equipment that’s more similar to mine and get a true sense for who is the luckier guy for that day or what ever you want to call it.
The super eliminator class tends to be more on time than equipment and mechanical skills of the crew.
The safety requirements, engine restrictions, fuel and general boat similarities’ would bring more sense of accomplishment than winning against a “Sea Do”, that’s just my take on a drag race. Although, in some circles, there are braggers who are thrilled about the moment, just seems it would be a better foot race if they all had the same shoes.

Willis
 

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March 23, 2014

Hello People,

As competitors, I actually don’t like lining up with Un Blown Fuel boats, but I understand the reasoning that facilitates. :)Unsure just prefer to line up with equipment that’s more similar to mine and get a true sense for who is the luckier guy for that day or what ever you want to call it.
The super eliminator class tends to be more on time than equipment and mechanical skills of the crew.
The safety requirements, engine restrictions, fuel and general boat similarities’ would bring more sense of accomplishment than winning against a “Sea Do”, that’s just my take on a drag race. Although, in some circles, there are braggers who are thrilled about the moment, just seems it would be a better foot race if they all had the same shoes.

Willis
Willis...
You are correct .A Jet Ski could win Super Eliminator,if he ran on his number.
 

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March 23, 2014

Hello People,

I used to be a board member, and had a direct link to starting the RR at a reduced rate for the NJBA.
I don't think you need to be a NJBA Board Member to air some positive feedback on ways to improve the sport. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that there was a major drop of participants from the line up when the half seconds brackets were eliminated from the NJBA line up.

Not looking for a drawn out debate whether or not if it’s good for your club, just saying that it was good for the racers who don’t care for the 7.70 rules.

Willis
just curious. what does an 8.5, 9.5 or 10.5 index have to do with a 7.70 rule?? and what do you -think- you know about a 7.70 rule that you have never raced under, but seem to have an opinion about?

Please don’t respond to this thread if you have never boat raced with a professional organization like the NJBA, CDBA Lucas, ADBA, etc.

Willis
Why would you say half second brackets are dead weight? I would like to see a 9.50 bracket and also a 8.50 bracket. Super eliminator is a good class to race, but its the only class you can run if your boat wont run the number in a .0 bracket to have a chance.
Not everyone wants to put nitrous on their boat to run the number and nobody like to slow down.

Just my opinion.
so just a question. does this mean that if they brought back half second brackets that you'd go out and race for the first time? and promise to attend every race from now on and support that half second bracket??? just asking because it wouldn't be the first time some uproar occurred to create a new class with promises of 8-10-12 boats every race in the class. which never happened.

the fact is, all the bracket classes had dwindled considerably before the board ever made the decision and announcement that the half second brackets would be eliminated. just the way it was. and a 2 boat bracket??? please...

I prefer to focus on running a class that's offered at every race, on any track, by every org, anywhere in the country. usually full of tough competition. just a few years ago, with the initiation of the 6 second deal, there was quite an uproar all over the place about diluting the 8s. just have to see how that all plays out. things change.
 

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There is no promoter.Never has been.
This is what I meant by my statement.
I prefer to focus on running a class that's offered at every race, on any track, by every org, anywhere in the country. usually full of tough competition.
The half second brackets would have to extend to other orgs and events. You won't convince a promoter to add that many more purses.
 

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This is what I meant by my statement.

The half second brackets would have to extend to other orgs and events. You won't convince a promoter to add that many more purses.
no, it wouldn't need to extend to any other org. they ran the half second brackets for at least 15 years, if not more, and nobody else did. they also had a no-sandbagging rule, deciding race winners from the beach, when nobody else did. and when those rules existed, you wouldn't necessarily race in the bracket you signed up for or were chasing points in. for example, if you had been running in the 9.50 class and made a qualifying lap (no sandbagging) of 9.40, you were -placed- in the 9.00 class. period end of story. your "quickest" qualifying lap had to be used, not your "best" (closest above your index), by rule. and going along with this, a "breakout" was worse than a "redlight". i.e., if you redlit and didn't break out, and the other guy had a green and did breakout, the breakout boat lost the round and the redlite advanced. these rules existed, I ran a ton of races under them and was directly affected by them, both on the good side and bad side. all of these things were changed several years ago. but point is, NOBODY else in the country ran their brackets like this going back 20 years. njba did for many years, and hung in there with it. although there were a lot of comers and goers.

willis, you seem to dislike bracket racing, even though you're advocating half second brackets that you have no interest in racing yourself, and you don't like dial in racing, like super eliminator, gambler, or 2nd chance. 60-75% of the people that show up at an njba race sign up for super eliminator, so you're in a very small minority. the sole reason super eliminator was ever proposed was to give bracket racers (i.e., slow boats) a second option to compete in, rather than enter a category as a second option where there was no chance to compete. this gives the 9, 10, 11 second guys something they never had before. it kind of sounds like you'd rather delete super eliminator because it's full of "slow" boats??? I'd say, if you don't want to compete in it, don't. and let the other 20-30 guys that do want to race in it have some fun.

and, as I recall, njba doesn't offer a pwc class. there was one guy that attended a few races some years back, but he entered a bracket with it. he hasn't been around for awhile, so if you decide to run se, you're probably safe from the pwc's...
 

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Nelson MFG
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NJBA's a club, their supposed to cater to their members. If a few guys show up and want to run a .5 bracket I would think it should be a non issue so long as it does not interfere with safety regulations.
 

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I guess I'm not making my point clear. Not that it matters.

Yes NJBA can and does a very good job of catering to their members.

I was trying to say in order to attract new racers with a new (or revived) class I would think it would need to extend to other orgs. And if so for sure would not fly with a promoter.

How many boats at a NJBA race are NJBA only? Don't race at other places.
 

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149 BGJ-Willis Power 540
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538 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Blown Gas Jet Category

willis, you seem to dislike bracket racing, even though you're advocating half second brackets that you have no interest in racing yourself, and you don't like dial in racing, like super eliminator, gambler, or 2nd chance. .
March 24, 2014

Hello People,

BP

You are correct, I do not like brackets.

I was just trying to see if they were offered again could we, the “NJBA” re-grow our stock. I only use the brackets for test and tune to run my best in BGJ. :shock:

We have to change the way we do business to grow again. The SE did save us for awhile but we can do better.

Willis
 

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Seams more like, whats it going to take to raise the boat count? More brackets (IMO) isn't the answer. More brackets would make less competitors in the .0 brackets. Thus in-turn would shrink the pots of the .0 brackets. Like kjell mentioned before there's a place for everyone who wants to race.

I feel its the cost of racing that keeps people away. Not just the membership and fees its everything else that comes along with it, especially if you have to travel a far distance to attend a race. Most people I know are satisfied with going to there local lake and pairing up there. However all of them have said (at one point) that they would love to run thru the lights. I feel we need to heavily discount the entry fee for those who want to "see what there boat will do". Those who do will be hooked on the comradery and competition the NJBA offers. You can't get that at you local pond. Then they will strive to promote them selves to a faster, full entry fee, class. At least that's my story. That's what keeps me coming back.

Ben Wurster
Boat #710
NJBA member since 2008
 
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