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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Let's have some fun!!

Seriously, something has to be done. I am not a fan of the Obama plan. But I will say that healthcare has been rising at an alarming rate (cost) and it seems like a battle every year with the insurance agent. It always starts like this: 30% or so raise this year. "Go pound sand". Ok, I am going to go back and see what I can do. "Yea, do that, I am looking for a new agent." Wait, wait, wait.....I think we can manipulate some numbers, and do some magic. "You do what you need to do. I am exploring other options." (Next Day or so) Morning! Man I have good news. Only a 13% increase and you give up some additional coverage and your deductible goes up. "Hmmm, did you shop the account?" Yea, I can get the same thing you have for a small increase of 8% but you have to switch to XXXXX. "Ok, switch you focking idiot!!" Oh, ok, jeeeesh, I talked to one of your employees wives and she said they didn't want to leave their Dr. and he's not covered by XXXXX. "Really? Jeeeeesh, does she own this focking company? I give a shiat what so and so's wife thinks, change our focking provider!!!!!"

Result, 8% increase, on an annual basis, for the past 8 years and less coverage.

Sooooooo, what to do.......

1) Government run healthcare is not the answer. They are incapable of running medicade / medicare which, along with social security, is our nation's biggest expense. (Larger than the defense budget.)

2) They failed at running military healthcare which is now in the hands of Tri Care, a private insurance.

3) Congress, by the way, is exempt from the proposed plan. (Yes, that is a fact) They retain their private healthcare plans.

4) And congress has seen fit to exempt the major unions from the plan such as the car industry and other industries. (I can't make this stuff up, seriously)

5) So you have to ask yourself, if this plan is so great and vital, why are there any exemptions from the plan? Why doesn't everyone want to be in the plan?

6) Oh yea, that's because everyone in the plan is going to share the same level of care along with the "50 million" supposedly uninsured."

7) Out of the "uninsured" there is more than half that is unisured by choice. That means they can afford to insurance but choose not to have any. Maybe the BMW 500 verses getting insurance and a Toyota Camry?

8) Many states, such as Arizona, has a health care plan for the unisured. It's not perfect, but it works. Do they get the same level of care? No. Is it free? Yes. So getting everyone the same level of care is going to correct this (minus the exemptions)? yes.

9) How much is this going to cost? (More than you can count.) Has broken many countries prior to ours.

10) The Math: Understand that in our best years (happen to be under "W") our government revenued something like $850 billion (annual basis). (Yep, that's it folks) Over $330 billion went to medicade / medicare / social security. By comparison, $250 billion went to defense. Closing in on $600 billion right there. Then we pay $75 billion in INTEREST (yes interest on national debt to people like the chinese) You can see the problem. With the new programs in place, adding to the debt (if anyone will buy it) you also add an additional $25 billion in interest payments. And folks, revenues are down 30 some percent!!!!!!! We can't pay the bills now!!!! What happens when we can't make interest payments? YOU GO BANKRUPT!!!!!


And that my friends is the problem. We haven't even started with school funding, security, intelligence, infrastructure, highway funds, FAA, EPA, Urban housing, etc. etc. etc.

With just interest, defense and seniors (budgets) we are broke. And they continue to spend. Man those democrats are awesome!!! Wait until they start printing money!!! Hang on then. You'll meet Mr. Inflation!! Someone had a video of Argentina. Maybe it's time to watch that scenario again.

And remember, the country is being led by a man that has never, ever had profit and loss responsibility. Never. And his top advisor is an idiot at best or a tax cheat at worse. No other options people.

ok, I'm done. Let's have some fun!!! :D
 

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It is what it is
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It seems to me we could dramatically cut the cost the healthcare if we weren't absorbing the costs of healthcare for illegal immigrants. We've all been to the emergency room. It's usually full of people using it as a doctors office. Since they can't legally turn anyone away, the few of us that do pay our bill are paying for the other 100 that don't.

So why not have the Sherrif set up at the E.R. and take the illegals and/or their families away? I'm not saying to deny them treatment, but when they're released pack them up and ship them out. Once the word spread that the going to the hospital is the fastest way to get deported, they'd stop going to the hospital unless it was an emergency.


It's just an idea, I'd like to see some other ideas. There's no point in bitching about all the crap that doesn't work. We need some solutions.
 

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It seems to me we could dramatically cut the cost the healthcare if we weren't absorbing the costs of healthcare for illegal immigrants. We've all been to the emergency room. It's usually full of people using it as a doctors office. Since they can't legally turn anyone away, the few of us that do pay our bill are paying for the other 100 that don't.

So why not have the Sherrif set up at the E.R. and take the illegals and/or their families away? I'm not saying to deny them treatment, but when they're released pack them up and ship them out. Once the word spread that the going to the hospital is the fastest way to get deported, they'd stop going to the hospital unless it was an emergency.


It's just an idea, I'd like to see some other ideas. There's no point in bitching about all the crap that doesn't work. We need some solutions.
Thats the million dollar question around here. 85-90% of those in the ER's are illegals. I've got a real problem with a politician(in most cases a lawyer) telling me I have to carry this sub par coverage at my expense. While an illegal and he(the politician) have better coverage at my expense as well. I'll get behind the "plan" the minute these asshats step up and sign up for it themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It seems to me we could dramatically cut the cost the healthcare if we weren't absorbing the costs of healthcare for illegal immigrants. We've all been to the emergency room. It's usually full of people using it as a doctors office. Since they can't legally turn anyone away, the few of us that do pay our bill are paying for the other 100 that don't.

So why not have the Sherrif set up at the E.R. and take the illegals and/or their families away? I'm not saying to deny them treatment, but when they're released pack them up and ship them out. Once the word spread that the going to the hospital is the fastest way to get deported, they'd stop going to the hospital unless it was an emergency.


It's just an idea, I'd like to see some other ideas. There's no point in bitching about all the crap that doesn't work. We need some solutions.

Your absolutely right. ER is a problem and it could be solved. Hard to miss that number that represents medicade / medicare / social security huh? So we'll cut off the old people and "counsel" them regarding their end of life options. Eliminate some of those "quality of life" meds and surgeries. That will cut some costs. Plus, the administration is cutting back on payments to those that invoice on medicade and medicare.

You voted for change. Just pointing out the facts. It does sound like complaining huh? Sorry was trying to create a debate. You at least put up one area we can improve on.
 

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Lavey Me Alone
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The problem is medicine and healthcare are "for profit" businesses. As long as that's the case, prices will rise and they will try to sell you stuff you just don't need....BIG money businesses don't have your best interests in mind....their bottomline is what's most important.

Should I have the best possible healthcare in the world for me and my family? ....only if I can afford it. It's certainly not my right......

RTJas :)coffee
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You know one thing that has gone from private to federal and worked better is security at the airports.

Back in the day, the airlines chipped in and provided security via a private firm. We all used to laugh at the personnel they put into place back then.

Although not perfect, it is better now that the government is doing security. Yea, it's still laughable sometimes, but better than it was. I wonder what the cost difference is between private and government though?
 

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You know one thing that has gone from private to federal and worked better is security at the airports.

Back in the day, the airlines chipped in and provided security via a private firm. We all used to laugh at the personnel they put into place back then.

Although not perfect, it is better now that the government is doing security. Yea, it's still laughable sometimes, but better than it was. I wonder what the cost difference is between private and government though?
On no, were going to start talking about TSA's? They're referred to thousands standing around by those in the airline industry. I don't know about you, but I've never been able to find an example of the government doing something more streamlined than what private business can do.
 

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Slow Learner
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The problem is medicine and healthcare are "for profit" businesses. As long as that's the case, prices will rise and they will try to sell you stuff you just don't need....BIG money businesses don't have your best interests in mind....their bottomline is what's most important.

Should I have the best possible healthcare in the world for me and my family? ....only if I can afford it. It's certainly not my right......

RTJas :)coffee
Bingo!
 

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The problem is medicine and healthcare are "for profit" businesses. As long as that's the case, prices will rise and they will try to sell you stuff you just don't need....BIG money businesses don't have your best interests in mind....their bottomline is what's most important.

Should I have the best possible healthcare in the world for me and my family? ....only if I can afford it. It's certainly not my right......

RTJas :)coffee
Exactly!
Do I get ticked off at my high monthly premium? Hell yeah!
Is it my choice to have a policy that costs me more? Yes
Do I want the government to choose for me? Hell no!
The dilemma >>>>>
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
On no, were going to start talking about TSA's? They're referred to thousands standing around by those in the airline industry. I don't know about you, but I've never been able to find an example of the government doing something more streamlined than what private business can do.

I seriously think it has gotten better. But I bet the cost is unbelievable!!

I understand, it still sucks. I just got back from a business trip. It was interesting to say the least. :)coffee
 

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You guys on the left that believe Obama's lies on the single payer system....listen and watch his own words!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk
 

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"Because we don’t have the votes for it. I wish we did. I think that if we get a good public option it could lead to single payer and that is the best way to reach single payer. Saying you’ll do nothing till you get single payer is a sure way never to get it. … I think the best way we’re going to get single payer, the only way, is to have a public option and demonstrate the strength of its power." Barney Frank
 

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G

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Let's have some fun!!

Seriously, something has to be done. I am not a fan of the Obama plan. But I will say that healthcare has been rising at an alarming rate (cost) and it seems like a battle every year with the insurance agent. It always starts like this: 30% or so raise this year. "Go pound sand". Ok, I am going to go back and see what I can do. "Yea, do that, I am looking for a new agent." Wait, wait, wait.....I think we can manipulate some numbers, and do some magic. "You do what you need to do. I am exploring other options." (Next Day or so) Morning! Man I have good news. Only a 13% increase and you give up some additional coverage and your deductible goes up. "Hmmm, did you shop the account?" Yea, I can get the same thing you have for a small increase of 8% but you have to switch to XXXXX. "Ok, switch you focking idiot!!" Oh, ok, jeeeesh, I talked to one of your employees wives and she said they didn't want to leave their Dr. and he's not covered by XXXXX. "Really? Jeeeeesh, does she own this focking company? I give a shiat what so and so's wife thinks, change our focking provider!!!!!"

Result, 8% increase, on an annual basis, for the past 8 years and less coverage.

Sooooooo, what to do.......

1) Government run healthcare is not the answer. They are incapable of running medicade / medicare which, along with social security, is our nation's biggest expense. (Larger than the defense budget.)

2) They failed at running military healthcare which is now in the hands of Tri Care, a private insurance.

3) Congress, by the way, is exempt from the proposed plan. (Yes, that is a fact) They retain their private healthcare plans.

4) And congress has seen fit to exempt the major unions from the plan such as the car industry and other industries. (I can't make this stuff up, seriously)

5) So you have to ask yourself, if this plan is so great and vital, why are there any exemptions from the plan? Why doesn't everyone want to be in the plan?

6) Oh yea, that's because everyone in the plan is going to share the same level of care along with the "50 million" supposedly uninsured."

7) Out of the "uninsured" there is more than half that is unisured by choice. That means they can afford to insurance but choose not to have any. Maybe the BMW 500 verses getting insurance and a Toyota Camry?

8) Many states, such as Arizona, has a health care plan for the unisured. It's not perfect, but it works. Do they get the same level of care? No. Is it free? Yes. So getting everyone the same level of care is going to correct this (minus the exemptions)? yes.

9) How much is this going to cost? (More than you can count.) Has broken many countries prior to ours.

10) The Math: Understand that in our best years (happen to be under "W") our government revenued something like $850 billion (annual basis). (Yep, that's it folks) Over $330 billion went to medicade / medicare / social security. By comparison, $250 billion went to defense. Closing in on $600 billion right there. Then we pay $75 billion in INTEREST (yes interest on national debt to people like the chinese) You can see the problem. With the new programs in place, adding to the debt (if anyone will buy it) you also add an additional $25 billion in interest payments. And folks, revenues are down 30 some percent!!!!!!! We can't pay the bills now!!!! What happens when we can't make interest payments? YOU GO BANKRUPT!!!!!


And that my friends is the problem. We haven't even started with school funding, security, intelligence, infrastructure, highway funds, FAA, EPA, Urban housing, etc. etc. etc.

With just interest, defense and seniors (budgets) we are broke. And they continue to spend. Man those democrats are awesome!!! Wait until they start printing money!!! Hang on then. You'll meet Mr. Inflation!! Someone had a video of Argentina. Maybe it's time to watch that scenario again.

And remember, the country is being led by a man that has never, ever had profit and loss responsibility. Never. And his top advisor is an idiot at best or a tax cheat at worse. No other options people.

ok, I'm done. Let's have some fun!!! :D
Why not offer Tri Care to the masses?
 
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I'm not opposed to something similar. But it needs to be competitive. And who pays for those that can't pay? Or don't want to?
The tax payers are already paying for those who can't/don't pay, which is one of the areas that health care for all addresses. While I don't like giving anyone a free ride any more that you, It is believed that getting the freeloaders out of the emergency rooms and into a wellness based system, would save us, the tax payers, quite a bit. It's an interesting concept.
 

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The tax payers are already paying for those who can't/don't pay, which is one of the areas that health care for all addresses. While I don't like giving anyone a free ride any more that you, It is believed that getting the freeloaders out of the emergency rooms and into a wellness based system, would save us, the tax payers, quite a bit. It's an interesting concept.
Why not pass a law that forces all people just like car insurance and be done with it and no increase in taxes and government take over?
 

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Why not pass a law that forces all people just like car insurance and be done with it and no increase in taxes and government take over?

Exactly. People need to provide their own heathcare.

You can't force person A to contibute to person B's heathcare. Because then you basically have slavery. If Person B needs heathcare because it is now a "right", then person A is technically a slave to person B, being that they must provide for person B with person B not contributing anything back into the system. Person B becomes a burdon to person A just by their own existance.

If heatlh insurace is such a right (like the Obama says it is) then nutrition may as well be a right too! People need to eat correct? So should the government go to farmers and say people need food and you must provide it? No.
 

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Fokkin A! Another health care thread. :D

Let's have some fun!!

8) Many states, such as Arizona, has a health care plan for the unisured. It's not perfect, but it works. Do they get the same level of care? No. Is it free?

10) The Math: Understand that in our best years (happen to be under "W") our government revenued something like $850 billion (annual basis). (Yep, that's it folks) Over $330 billion went to medicade / medicare / social security. By comparison, $250 billion went to defense.

And that my friends is the problem. With just interest, defense and seniors (budgets) we are broke. And they continue to spend.
Yup, Medicare is free. Where do people get off complaining about something that is free?
The increasing cost of old people is breaking us. They have voted themselves huge benefits that we cannot afford. We have $50 trillion in unfunded mandates staring us in the face, and we can't figure out why people don't wanna invest.
I suspect your MATH numbers are low/old.

Hard to miss that number that represents medicade / medicare / social security huh? So we'll cut off the old people and "counsel" them regarding their end of life options. Eliminate some of those "quality of life" meds and surgeries. That will cut some costs. .
Sorry, it's not a choice. It MUST be done.

The problem is medicine and healthcare are "for profit" businesses. As long as that's the case, prices will rise and they will try to sell you stuff you just don't need....Should I have the best possible healthcare in the world for me and my family? ....only if I can afford it. It's certainly not my right......

RTJas :)coffee
In fairness all businesses try to sell you stuff you don't need. The fact that medicine is FOR PROFIT, is not the PROBLEM, it the Beauty of our system. A system where an Arab sheik gets sick, and goes to NY, and checks into the Jewish hospital.
A system where the poorest people get amazing new treatments, that even the richest people/royalty could not get a few years ago.
I fokkin LOVE it.

Why not offer Tri Care to the masses?
There is certainly an argument that Medicare could be offered to everyone without reinventing the wheel.
Then again, it would make more sense to cover workers and children, and eliminate the old people from the system. Younger people are cheaper to insure, and more likely to be productive.
We could even consider a special tax on old people to pay for the cost of insuring younger people.
The fact that I sound outrageous is a testament to the AARP PR machine. It their position which is outrageous, not mine.
 

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To expand on the above, imagine I told you that I had 3 cars.
1. A Model A that I keep in the garage, never use, it doesnt' run, I can't get parts for it, and I spend $1 million a year on car insurance and upkeep.

2. I have 10 yr old Camry, with 200k mi., I drive it to work everyday. I spend $0/yr on insurance and maintenance.

3. I have another car in the garage, in parts, it's a new kit car I have to put together to replace the Camry. I haven't invested the time and effort to do this, and it has no insurance.

You say, "HEY SB, yer fokkin NUTS! And you should be put away where you can't hurt yourself. Your first priority should be the Camry, then the kit car, then the antique last."
 
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