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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just found this forum a couple of nights ago -- very nice! Its great to find an active jetboat board! Ive been planning to introduce myself, share my project with the group, but now I need some help sooner than expected!

I have a 1976 Beachcomber Renegade, purchased in '78 or '79 by my father. I grew up in and behind this boat, and have loved it with all my heart for as long as I can remember. Original Olds 455 and Berkeley JB-A had 347 hours, ultimately the motor locked up from moisture. I finally started to dig into the project this spring, and am approaching completion. I pulled the motor, disassembled the 'outside', and took the longblock to a local machine shop for rebuild. The jet was shipped to Berkeley for rebuild. The interior was removed, and the seats are rebuilt and about to be recovered. New carpet is going in...

Some other time Ill cover all the problems -- yes, a few. At least one with each area of the boat. Sigh....

For now, though, I need some clarification. I have the lightweight flexplate, and of course, the H-joint. I removed these before the engine went to the shop, and the bolts were labeled in their own baggie (just like all the other small parts, bolts, etc). I was reinstalling these pieces today, and figured out the hole pattern (plate and joint will only go on ONE way!). The problem -- I put the plate on the back of the cranshaft, then the joint. The joint only seats so deep, but isnt touching the flexplate. I do not have any spacer, but it seems to need one -- there is about 1/4" of play for the plate. Im not perfectly organized, and sadly didnt take pics of this area without the bell housing, but Im pretty sure I havent lost anything. Im absolutely certain that I have the same plate, joint and crank.

WHAT AM I MISSING ?

I have a whole other 455, completely dissassembled, and stored totally seperately from my project. One box of those parts was carried to the machine shop and back. I found a spacer in that box today that matched the hole pattern on the end of the crank, but it is too thick. With that in place, plus the plate and joint, and bell housing, the jet will not mate properly. The too thick spacer pushes the joint out too far. And -- the only way this piece came from my engine was to have stayed on the crank after I took off the joint and plate. Ill be calling the shop tomorrow morning.

Anyone have any suggestions? Any of this make sense? Just rambling?

Thanks guys!

Brandon


If anyone has any info on the Beachcomber boats, Im very interested -- basically no info available. I do have an original brochure/spec sheet. Ill post that and the little bit of info I do have in another thread soon.
 

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only help I have is make sure that H bar is exactly the same as it came off. I know someone who went through two olds rear mains back to back before they figured out the H bar was whipping because they mixed up the engine mounting feet when re-installing the motor:)
 

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NW Spectraholic
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Yeah, you need a spacer to make up the difference between the flexplate and the original stick flywheel they put in our boats. I just went thru this on mine a little over a week ago. The old flywheel is around a 1/2" think where it bolts on, so I think with the flex you still need around 3/8" after the plate to make up the thickness. I made one for mine out of an old crank flange in the lathe. Just make sure you aren't bottoming out the slip spline on the front of the pump when the engine slides back or you'll wipe out your thrust bearings in the engine.
 

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If you want to get out on the cheep just grind down the centering ring on the crank to where it onlt past the flex plate 3/16 or so. Or chuck the mating flange up in a lathe and spin the hole deeper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Fleet -- pics of the problem, or pics of the boat ? :p Im headed outside shortly, so Ill snap a few of the problem. As for the boat / project, Ill start a new post soon.

Malcolm - thanks for the suggestions! Does the spacer go between the plate and the crank, or the plate and the H-joint? When I tried it, I had it between the plate and the joint. The joint wasnt sitting all the way into the crank, and therefore it seemed as though the jet spline was bottomed in the joint and still not close enough to seat/mount properly. *(I have not moved my engine mounts in the boat, nor the jet intake). And when you say not to bottom -- do you mean in the joint or on the pump or both? Thrust bearings in the engine? Ill get those pics up very shortly ...

I spoke with the guy at the shop -- he remembered seeing the spacer, but not where it came from (not too surprising). He isnt a jetboat or Olds guy. Im concerned about which side of the plate the spacer goes on, and I have the big 'total coverage' bell housing - so I cant assemble and still see the starter come out to the plate. I think the spacer must have been on the crank, then the plate, if I left it on and it made it to the machine shop. On the other hand, because this is to make up the space left by the plate rather than the flywheel, it stands to reason the plate should go up against the crank, then the spacer, and the joint last. Malcolm ? Anyone?

Last thing -- I have two engines, mine and another disassembled from a jetboat that I bought for the block. The second has a flywheel -- and therefore doesnt have a spacer ?? This would mean that the only spacer I have is to be used with the plate ? (Also - I dont want to use the flywheel vs. flexplate because 1. the plate came off my engine, and 2. the plate will rev more quickly -- right ??)

Thanks guys!

Brandon
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks, Flat --- I have thought of this, or taking material off the spacer so that everything sits down properly. Or, I could simply bolt the plate down using the two extra holes, and then the joint over that.

But I should have everything to put it back the same -- Im using all the same parts... joint, crank, plate.
 

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NW Spectraholic
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The plate goes on first so the ring gear is inline with the starter. Then the spacer, then your drive shaft. Does your flywheel go on with 2 bolts then cover them with your u-joints and the 4 bolts hold that. The spacer is needed to keep the center of the crank hub from hitting your drive, kinda hard to just grind that down.
 

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if you took this thing apart, had it rebuilt, and now you are putting it back together, there is no reason to grind anything!! you stated that you are useing the original everything. i am sure the yoke in your pump slides in and out. (mine does) be sure to use all the parts that came out, ie spacers. pics will help out alot!!
 

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Sit N' Spin
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From reading the original post, it sounds to me like he's missing the PTO flange. The PTO flange gets bolted on with the flexplate while the H-joint gets bolted to the PTO flange, in effect sandwiching the PTO flange between the H-joint and the flexplate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Malcolm - mine looks just like that (without the bolts holding the plate on - I dont have those). I was thinking that with the plate and spacer in place, the joint should sit flat on the crank.

Here is a pic of mine without the spacer in.


and here with the spacer in place -- it looks like Malcolm's.

1975sleekcraft said:
if you took this thing apart, had it rebuilt, and now you are putting it back together, there is no reason to grind anything!! you stated that you are useing the original everything.
I agree fully! My pump shaft doesnt seem to move in and out, but I just discovered something -- I put just the joint on the pump and because of the grease sealing, it took some work to get the shaft to seat. Im betting this was the trouble I had yesterday.

Im going to put the plate, spacer and joint back on, plus the bell housing and then try to mate the jet and the engine without it being in the boat. Ill have much more control, I think.

Thanks again everyone!



BTW - as for the girlfriend pics ... lets just say the wife wont let me share! :|err
 

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Sit N' Spin
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Malcolm - mine looks just like that (without the bolts holding the plate on - I dont have those). I was thinking that with the plate and spacer in place, the joint should sit flat on the crank.

Here is a pic of mine without the spacer in.


and here with the spacer in place -- it looks like Malcolm's.



I agree fully! My pump shaft doesnt seem to move in and out, but I just discovered something -- I put just the joint on the pump and because of the grease sealing, it took some work to get the shaft to seat. Im betting this was the trouble I had yesterday.

Im going to put the plate, spacer and joint back on, plus the bell housing and then try to mate the jet and the engine without it being in the boat. Ill have much more control, I think.

Thanks again everyone!



BTW - as for the girlfriend pics ... lets just say the wife wont let me share! :|err
AH...lightbulb just went off!

When the H-joint is NOT bolted to the crank, you should be able to slide it forward and backward 1/4". It should not be bottomed out on the pump shaft. The play is there to remove any thrust forces from the crankshaft and keep the pump shaft from sliding forward and slamming into the crank in the event of a pump thrust bearing failure. The pump thrust bearing is what holds the pump shaft in place and takes a lot of forward thrust force from the bowl pressure in the pump.
 

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Sit N' Spin
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1,423 Posts
Malcolm - mine looks just like that (without the bolts holding the plate on - I dont have those). I was thinking that with the plate and spacer in place, the joint should sit flat on the crank.

Here is a pic of mine without the spacer in.


and here with the spacer in place -- it looks like Malcolm's.



I agree fully! My pump shaft doesnt seem to move in and out, but I just discovered something -- I put just the joint on the pump and because of the grease sealing, it took some work to get the shaft to seat. Im betting this was the trouble I had yesterday.

Im going to put the plate, spacer and joint back on, plus the bell housing and then try to mate the jet and the engine without it being in the boat. Ill have much more control, I think.

Thanks again everyone!



BTW - as for the girlfriend pics ... lets just say the wife wont let me share! :|err
AH...lightbulb just went off!

When the H-joint is NOT bolted to the crank, you should be able to slide it forward and backward AT LEAST 1/4". It should not be bottomed out on the pump shaft. The play is there to remove any forward thrust forces from the crankshaft and keep the pump shaft from sliding forward and slamming into the crank in the event of a pump thrust bearing failure. The pump thrust bearing is what holds the pump shaft in place and takes a lot of forward thrust force from the bowl pressure in the pump.

Usually when I install a motor in a jet boat I already have the shaft bolted to the PTO flange (much easier to get the bolts in this way). Doing it this way you won't even notice the 1/4" of play when you bolt the motor in exactly where it was when it came out (assuming the motor was positioned properly in the first place) since the joint is already bolted on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ok - so Ive reassembled everything, and brought the pump upto the engine (still out of the boat). I was able to wiggle and work the pump up closer than I did yesterday in the boat, and I think it is on correct judging by the 'wear marks' from the pump seal/bushing on the throat of the joint. The bell housing still doesnt look like it is tight against the flange of the pump by about 1/8".




The real issue is whether the bolts in the pump will line up with the intake in the boat. Ill put the engine back in and try. Now I have some reference points and am aware of just how deep to push the pump to the joint.

Thanks again guys!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Pic of the setup before I took it out. You can see that there is a about the same gap. Im guessing I just wasnt getting it on enough yesterday. Im headed out to try again!

 
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