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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
...This is the scenerio...About six months ago I apparently lost a headgasket and an intake gasket...(flat style intake gaskets & blue Felpro head gaskets)

...The boat,...'74 Sanger Runner...

...The motor,...'73 Chevy 454 LS7...12 1/2 to 1 compression...

...While apart,...I did a valve job and replaced the intake valve seats(pretty pitted)...and surfaced the heads...

...On initial startup...I ran it at 2000 RPM for about a half hour...some steam coming from the valve cover breathers (most of it disipated)...This I attributed to moisture still in the motor???...The oil had been changed prior to the heads being taken off...It was also run at 200 degrees prior to disassembly...No steam,...no milkey oil...

...When I started it to set the timing,...all was good until I ran it up to 3000 RPM...I then noticed water coming coming up through several of the ARP studs (About a dozen had been replaced...It had been recomended to me to replace them all but most would not budge w/Blaster and double nutting)...Those that I replaced were pretty corroded...The oil is now very milky...

...The threads in the block were chased...As per ARP's recomendation the studs were put in finger tight ...They were sealed with GM's 12-1#1050026...non hardening,...gasket Sealing Compound...(Another source recomend this???)... ...Felpro Blue head....and flat intake gaskets were used...Silicone was applied around any gasket area where water passed or touched...

...It has been recomended that I try tightening the replaced ARP studs further,...before tearing it apart again...I may have seen leakage at a stud that had not been replaced???...Not sure...

...Another point of pressurized water leakage is between the Bassett wet exhaust and the head at # 7 cylinder...The drain holes are clear and the plumbing to the headers is as it came apart...The motor was run with the bow pointed down about 7 degrees...(do not know if this matters???)

...Granted the motor is 35 years old but has no ridge in the cylinders no blow by,...and used no oil...It always ran great until the gasket problem...

...Any advice and or direction will be appreciated...
...Thanks,...Willie...
 

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how much water pressure do you have comming from the water pump ? did you change the oil after heads off. i got water in the valley soon as i pulled the heads. wow im not a engine gear head like alot on here but call joey grose racing engines in lodi or joe shelfo in fairfield. thats why they call them a boat. Bust Out Another Thousand. sorry to hear let us know remedy. it dont sound like a big deal probly and hopefilly something with the head gaskets
 

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Tell me you did not put silicon on the head gasket. i would never run a composition head gasket with anything over 11.1- 12.5.1 is copper or laminate gasket time. you should have done all the studs, did you torque the studs back down before putting the heads back on? a leak down will tell which cylinder is the problem, then it's time to find out why. their is a slim possibility that somewhere it may have cracked or rotted into an oil passage, if you have an aluminum manifold did you check to make sure it is not rotted past the gasket sealing surface?
 

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I think the block is cracked one area to look is on the deck I have seen it happen before. One thinks of a head gasket at first but it could be the block once it gets up to temp then it opens up. :|err
 

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Check the water pump flow . also check the front timing cover some time they leak at the gasket where the stock water pump goes , leaks into the timing chain area. and if the heads where surfaced make sure your intake and heads seat on the intake gasket. if your running water at the headers maybe to much water ,sometimes if the cam has a large overlap you will suck water into the cylinders. hope this helps.
 

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Question why did you put seats in heads or were they in heads all ready?

did you cut heads your self or have the head cut and fit for seats ?

in my shop when the seat in the heads are pitted or bad the first thing on
boat heads I do is see if I can cut for bigger valves , This sets the stem height back
stock set and you have the correct spring height, when you cut the heads just a few thou
bigger than stock seat size you get a little better performance. And a hole new seat surface.
When you have your heads off I would have them pressure checked, I have seen new seats leak . I dont like seats in boat heads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Question why did you put seats in heads or were they in heads all ready?

did you cut heads your self or have the head cut and fit for seats ?

in my shop when the seat in the heads are pitted or bad the first thing on
boat heads I do is see if I can cut for bigger valves , This sets the stem height back
stock set and you have the correct spring height, when you cut the heads just a few thou
bigger than stock seat size you get a little better performance. And a hole new seat surface.
When you have your heads off I would have them pressure checked, I have seen new seats leak . I dont like seats in boat heads.
...The heads were done by an automotive machine shop...They said they could not find the correct size valves needed for the oversize...hence the replacement of the intake seats...They assured me they would not cut into the waterjackets...Now I am wondering if in fact they did???...The motor ran crisp at first,...but at higher RPM and as the water started working it's way up the studs ,...from the sound of the motor it could have lost from 1 to 3 cylinders...In pulling the plugs 3 of them appeared to be gas fowled...I did not see water on any of the plugs...

...With water creeping up the studs,...could this be a result of water getting into the cylinders through the seats???...

...If in fact water caused the losing of cylinders is it possible for water to get into the cylinders from the replaced studs not sealing properly???...

...In replacing the plugs it ran crisp again for a minute but then may have lost another cylinder...I have not looked at these plugs...

...I am not sure if the heads were pressure check???...I thought I was told they had been...

Thanks Willie
 

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Any machine shop should be able to cut a bbc intake valve 2.300 to 2.25 or cut down 2.250
small I cut down 2.100 Manley valves for are sbc to any size I want 2.07 2.055 2.066 what ever size I want to make them no you cant buy valves with heads + .005 to .030 or ++++ you make them your self. The water could be leaking in to the cylinders from the studs,Did you torque the new studs down ? befor you put heads on
 

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In the cylinders that have water in them it will be hard to see on a plug, but the water will act like a steam cleaner and clean off any carbon that may have been on a piston top. i have seen the seats cut into water passages if they used to big of a seat.
 

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had a friend with the same problem

I noticed you said you had the heads surfaced,but did you check the manifold.This friend of mine had the same problem.He changed manifolds and problem solved. just a thought
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Any machine shop should be able to cut a bbc intake valve 2.300 to 2.25 or cut down 2.250
small I cut down 2.100 Manley valves for are sbc to any size I want 2.07 2.055 2.066 what ever size I want to make them no you cant buy valves with heads + .005 to .030 or ++++ you make them your self. The water could be leaking in to the cylinders from the studs,Did you torque the new studs down ? befor you put heads on
...The Studs were not torqued...ARP told me to only finger tighten the studs???...

...In furthering my research I have been told that Gasket Cinch,...Purple Permatex or teflon tape are the industry standards for resealing threads...There is a possability that the GM Gasket Sealer 1#1050026 is not a suitable thread sealer???...I am awaiting a callback from the info Phone # on the can...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In the cylinders that have water in them it will be hard to see on a plug, but the water will act like a steam cleaner and clean off any carbon that may have been on a piston top. i have seen the seats cut into water passages if they used to big of a seat.
...None of the plugs looked as though they had been steam cleaned...

...I am thinking that,...as the idle mixture had richened up due to the replacement of a leaking gasket between the tunnel ram halves,...it is possible it was just way to fat at idle and burbled or did gas fowl some cylinders???...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I noticed you said you had the heads surfaced,but did you check the manifold.This friend of mine had the same problem.He changed manifolds and problem solved. just a thought
...I visually inspected the tunnel ram and flat-filed the intake surfaces...
 

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water in oil

Try running headers dry!!!!! if it fix's it then cut way back on water by plugging the line and drilling a small hole in it.:)hand
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Try running headers dry!!!!! if it fix's it then cut way back on water by plugging the line and drilling a small hole in it.:)hand
...Hmmm???...Now you've got me thinking...I wonder if there had been drilled plugs that might have come out of the water lines when I took it apart???...Prior to the original disassembly none of this current scenario had been an issue...
 

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I'm not thinkin the water in the headers is the problem unless you got a bunch of overlap in the cam, then still i would doubt it. i use the liquid teflon on all my threaded connections that go to water, never had any leaks yet, both on boats or heavy equipment. you have got to think where does the water come close to contacting the oil and check those out, gaskets, studs, seals and so on. i would just for giggles change the oil and run it again and see what happens. run it dry for a few then check it, turn water on run for the same time check again. ya might want to pull the water pump so it don't run dry though.
 

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Pressure test the heads. Also these heads may have the valve guides that go through to the water passages which can corrode out and leak, the pitting can be a sign of this but depends on what heads you have.
 
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