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Doc, dimbulbs cannot relate to this. Its outside their ability to grasp. Its like an unexplainable mental block.

CVX will scream and holler about the rich getting richer, even though HSTORY has shown the more they make the more taxes they will pay, IN ACTUAL DOLLARS. But if you increase the PERCENTAGE rate, and stifle their ABILITY to make money, which is the REAL agenda, ask CVX and R&J, it IS the plan. Then you will get less revenue. Leave people alone, get the flock off their backs, and they will make money, and pay more tax revenue EVEN IF ITS AT A LOWER RATE. Choke incentives to invest and hire, and the revenue tanks. DUH!
Obama, Hillary, R&J, and CVX will tell you its FAIR! Well boys and girls, your idea of FAIR always seem to result in less. WHY? Who is it fair to? Those that REFUSE to work.


Its not alot unlike a agent for a actor, or rock star.
Lower percentage, but plenty of work and good income. Higher percentage, they fire your ass, no actors, no rock stars, no revenue.

But the very very very worse incentive to pay more is the WASTE, and the FRAUD, and the FREE FOR ALL GIVING AWAY, of our hard earned tax dollars. It the irresponsible squandering, from goverment employees to the freeloaders that kill the incentive.

Of course R&J and CVX are all for higher taxes. It means bigger pay check. Would I vote for a higher tax specially on the wealthy that I DO NOT WORK FOR!, so I can have an additional 10%? HELL YEAH!
Or even if I have to pay an additional 25.00 a week more in taxes, thats fine. So long as the remaiming 140 million tax payers pay more so I can have an additional 100.00 a week on my check for a net gain of 75.00.

Like I said, they shouldn't even be allowed to vote. They simply vote themselves MORE MONEY with every election.

consider this commies. You don't get another dime in income until the revenue goes UP. When you figure out how to do that, then you can have more.
No responsible thriving business on this earth pays its employees to do the shit results YOU produce and still give them higher wages. It would go broke. And yes, you have broken the United States of America. Congradulations, its the one job you did quite well.



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The answer might surprise you.]


Hmm. Suggesting a 33% rate, which I assume is a total rate. I don't know how that translates to marginal rates or state and local taxes.
Of course we've seen the clip of O and Hilary vowing to raise rates even more (collecting less) just because of fairness. Funny thing, Doc, "fairness" was not listed on that graph anywhere, just % and revenue.

D
Or even if I have to pay an additional 25.00 a week more in taxes, thats fine. So long as the remaiming 140 million tax payers pay more so I can have an additional 100.00 a week on my check for a net gain of 75.00.
Ha, my FB friend said this exact thing. She is a civilian DOD employee, they are facing a 20% pay cut. She'd rather have a tax increase cuz she knows it wouldn't be 20%. Btw, my opinions are no longer welcome on her FB page. :rolleyes:
 

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How much taxation or what tax rate is optimal? Stop looking at the shiny object Doc.
Ok then, what rate would you be willing to pay without allowing any deductions? Don't you think it should be across the board? Why should some pay more than others?
 

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Ok then, what rate would you be willing to pay without allowing any deductions? Don't you think it should be across the board? Why should some pay more than others?
The scale should shift down but it should still remain a graduated tax schedule. For me, 12-15 percent would be reasonable. My situation has become increasingly complicated the last few years and it was worked in my favor because if the preferential nature of the tax code.
 

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The scale should shift down but it should still remain a graduated tax schedule. For me, 12-15 percent would be reasonable. My situation has become increasingly complicated the last few years and it was worked in my favor because if the preferential nature of the tax code.
Why graduated? Why not a fair system where everyone pays the same? Isn't that what fair means? Everyone pays their fair share?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
How much taxation or what tax rate is optimal? Stop looking at the shiny object Doc.
I really doubt someone of your mentality could comprehend such a concept but the Lord's system is 10% and the Churches that actually practice the law of tithing are among the most financially stable organizations in the world - not religious organizations, but organizations in general.

Here's the rub for you liberals . . .

. . . everybody pays their tithe. No deductions or exemptions. The widow pays her mite (dime on her dollar) and the wealthy man pays his tenth as well and the Lord's kingdom is well financed for life. My Church always far exceeds the humanitarian aid provided by the Red Cross and has for decades but they aren't in it for the donations or press. Best of all, tithing is 100% voluntary. Those of us who are aware that everything we receive is a gift of the Lord and the health, skills, talents, etc. that we possess to earn our keep is also a blessing of the Lord so we gladly pay a meager 10% without hesitation. Best part is we can't keep up with the blessings that keep pouring in more income. Funny how the Lord works that way. Proven true for me for well over fifty years and counting.
 

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The scale should shift down but it should still remain a graduated tax schedule. For me, 12-15 percent would be reasonable. My situation has become increasingly complicated the last few years and it was worked in my favor because if the preferential nature of the tax code.

If all men are created equal? Then why the graduated tax struture?
 

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The scale should shift down but it should still remain a graduated tax schedule. For me, 12-15 percent would be reasonable. My situation has become increasingly complicated the last few years and it was worked in my favor because if the preferential nature of the tax code.
So I take it that using you marxist reasoning, that every purchase a person makes should include a tax return so the merchant can calculate the sales tax to charge him. If you have a graduated income tax, stand to marxist reasonling we should have a graduated sales tax as well.

They have tried this before with "luxury taxe". But all that managed to do was kill the industries that manufatured and sold items that were under the luxury tax. You know, the companies that added to the GDP, employeed people, who paid taxes, bought goods for there own use, etc, that moved from productive tax paying jobs to the government assistance programs.Just another brainy marxist idea that was. Only makes sense to amp the idea up and charge wealthy people more for EVERYTHING they buy.

Freek'n greedy ass morons.
BTW, don't waste your time trying to deny its marxist origins. Its #2 on the Karl Marx's Cumminist manifesto list. We should be ashamed we even consider it, let alone implement it.

Why can't you people stand and be PROUD, and PROCLAIM your communist beliefs. Why do you insist on denying it and hiding in the shadows. Scream it from the roof tops and be proud. Damn, at least the gays managed to man up and come out of the closets. I have much more respect for their convictions than cowardice pussy marxist commies. Splineless pukes.



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If all men are created equal? Then why the graduated tax struture?
Because they are not, certainly not in terms of productivity and intelligence. Not that the two are synonymous.

So I take it that using you marxist reasoning, that every purchase a person makes should include a tax return so the merchant can calculate the sales tax to charge him. If you have a graduated income tax, stand to marxist reasonling we should have a graduated sales tax as well.

They have tried this before with "luxury taxe". But all that managed to do was kill the industries that manufatured and sold items that were under the luxury tax. You know, the companies that added to the GDP, employeed people, who paid taxes, bought goods for there own use, etc, that moved from productive tax paying jobs to the government assistance programs.Just another brainy marxist idea that was. Only makes sense to amp the idea up and charge wealthy people more for EVERYTHING they buy.

Freek'n greedy ass morons.
BTW, don't waste your time trying to deny its marxist origins. Its #2 on the Karl Marx's Cumminist manifesto list. We should be ashamed we even consider it, let alone implement it.

Why can't you people stand and be PROUD, and PROCLAIM your communist beliefs. Why do you insist on denying it and hiding in the shadows. Scream it from the roof tops and be proud. Damn, at least the gays managed to man up and come out of the closets. I have much more respect for their convictions than cowardice pussy marxist commies. Splineless pukes.
That is why I am not a fan of governments relying on sales tax. But to your demented and twisted point, people's buying habits sort of take care of that. One guy chooses a Ford Ranger and another an Aston Martin.
 

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Red Blooded American
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That is why I am not a fan of governments relying on sales tax. But to your demented and twisted point, people's buying habits sort of take care of that. One guy chooses a Ford Ranger and another an Aston Martin.
Have you ever passed an American history class? Prior to income taxes being levied on the American taxpayer, all we had were consumption taxes (sales tax.) We were the richest nation on the planet, Our GDP eclipsed any other nation on earth, our middle class was far wealthier than any other nation's and government had not a dime in debt.
 

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"The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911."


Relying on tarrifs.... So much for all that free market stuff, HUH Doc.
 

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Because they are not, certainly not in terms of productivity and intelligence. Not that the two are synonymous.



That is why I am not a fan of governments relying on sales tax. But to your demented and twisted point, people's buying habits sort of take care of that. One guy chooses a Ford Ranger and another an Aston Martin.
So you want to penalize those that are intelligent and productive and reward those that are not??? Kind of like how unions work. Those that work harder get hammered by those that don't want to work hard, yet both are paid the same. Which is why unions have become less productive and less popular. While not all union members are lazy, they do become jaded when they work their ass off and watch those being paid the same doing less.
In a more macro scheme, this is why communism didn't work in the USSR. No one worked hard, nothing good was produced. This is the country you want?
 

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Because they are not, certainly not in terms of productivity and intelligence. Not that the two are synonymous.



That is why I am not a fan of governments relying on sales tax. But to your demented and twisted point, people's buying habits sort of take care of that. One guy chooses a Ford Ranger and another an Aston Martin.
What a dumbass. You are so ignorant you can see you step right in it.
Of course one buys a Ranger and one buys a Aston Martin. DUH! Thats was not my point. Its the RATE of tax. If either buys either vehicle, both are chargred the same sales tax regardless of their income. WHY? Why is it so wrong for income tax to be the same way?

Oh oh, I know, I know. "Because its only fair" Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama. Two great examples of American Marxism



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"The nation had few taxes in its early history. From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves. The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches. In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government.

In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911."


Relying on tarrifs.... So much for all that free market stuff, HUH Doc.
BTW Mr Finacial Genius, the civil war tax was unconstituional, and repealed 10 years after it was inacted. It wasn't the only thing Lincoln did that was unconstituional, but in his eyes(correctly BTW) it really didn't matter. It they lost the war, the constitution would have been meaningless anyway. So save the union and repair the damage later IF YOU WIN! He also printed illegal money!!!!! Which the government bought back after the war.
Your godfather of communism in this country, Woodrow Wilson, allowed the printing of worhtless unbacked paper, along with the LIE about personal income tax under the 16th amendment, and the sheep of the day drank the cool aid, and here we are today, 16 trillion in debt of phony bank loan notes from the Federal Reserve. Just great! You must be so proud.
Congress passed a FLAT TAX which was ruled UNCONSTITUIONAL by the SC as direct tax which is forbidden under the constitution. Thats WHY they had to pass the 16th amendment.

Love the way you communist word this crap to YOUR favor to look like YOU are right. You are so full of shit! Keep at it though. You have almost managed to make yourself look as uneducated as ram. If thats possible.

So THIS is the STEEPLY graduated tax? How many people even made over 20,000 in 1913?
I can't quite figure out if you are really that fucking dumb, or if you are really that much of a communist and can't help but cry out its attributes for the lower class uneducated, lazy dumbasses, all off the backs of the productive citizens of the country.
R&J, not EVERYBODY can spounge off the government teet. Somebody has to make things that others want to buy, and create wealth and growth in the country. Otherwise you fucking idiot, YOU would be out of job, dumpster diving. Because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to work for anybody else! government teet suckers are bain to the economy, and create negative growth. If we paid every government worker, at ALL levels of government, city to fed, all 1 million a year, it would only serve to destroy the economy, and bankrupt the country. Government employment is NOT the answer, regardless whether you think so or not. Cutting overhead to the bone is how we are going to fix the problem, not printing more and more money for YOU. Or STEALING IT from those that actually EARNED IT!

http://www.ourdocuments.gov/document_data/document_images/doc_057b_big.jpg



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