Performance Boats Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,288 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a set of crower hippos. I am gonna guess 40 to 50 hours total on the motor. What is involved there? Send them to crower or? A few months back I posted a pic of a cam lobe that was wearing poorly...much to my surprise I pulled the intake today...and it doesn't look worse...it may actually look better. I will stick a pic or 2 up in a minute. Give me your opinions please.
 

·
AKA Blownjet 468
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
I had a cam that had been reground too many times, and it had gone thru
the hardened area and started digging troughs in the lobes! sent my
CROWERS back to them to be inspected, thinking they were gonna say
I needed to replace them- to my surprise they sent them back and said
"run 'em, they will be fine" was kinda sceptical, but I did, and they lasted
10+ yrs! (didn't change em, sold boat) is the cam a CROWER?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,288 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I had a cam that had been reground too many times, and it had gone thru
the hardened area and started digging troughs in the lobes! sent my
CROWERS back to them to be inspected, thinking they were gonna say
I needed to replace them- to my surprise they sent them back and said
"run 'em, they will be fine" was kinda sceptical, but I did, and they lasted
10+ yrs! (didn't change em, sold boat) is the cam a CROWER?
The cam is a bullett....I swear it looks better now than it did. The general consensus of the prior thread was either that those 2 lobes may not have been hardened properly...or that I had an lifter bore alignment issue. Someone pointed out if that was the issue...I should have a firm talk with my machinist since the lifter bores are already bushed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,034 Posts
You replace them when the wheels start to get loose. Or, I would replace them evey 100 hours of operation. Are they mechanical rollers? Not Hyd? or are they Hyd?
Wags
They are expensive, but more expensive if there is a failure. I am a crower lifter fan personally. I have had 1 failure with them personally in 10+ years of my stuff. I think this is pretty damn good.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
800 Posts
Just had one of the Crower solid rollers, (hippo), go bad in my 540 BBC ,(street car) for the second time. First time they had about 2175 miles on them, this time about 2800 miles on them. They replaced them free of charge the first time. had to pay to rebuild them this time. Also cam had to be reground both times.:mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,288 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
You replace them when the wheels start to get loose. Or, I would replace them evey 100 hours of operation. Are they mechanical rollers? Not Hyd? or are they Hyd?
Wags
They are expensive, but more expensive if there is a failure. I am a crower lifter fan personally. I have had 1 failure with them personally in 10+ years of my stuff. I think this is pretty damn good.
100 Hours or so thanks...fwiw they are not hyd. btw The guy that built my motor wouldn't take no for an answer on the crower hippos. 100 hours makes me good to go for a couple more years.:)sphss
 

·
AKA Blownjet 468
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
the crowers I ran weren't the hippo's, they were just the "Severe Duty"
ones! (way before the hippo's came out) and I had 10+ years on them.
was only about 5 or 6 outings a year, at about a drum +or- per trip of
114oct union76 race fuel. and I would back off the rockers every last
trip of the season. would never run anything BUT CROWERS in a solid
roller application. except maybe jesels, or some other keyway style high-
end type lifter. But then again, I'm one of those old school guys who also
swears by the good ole' REV KIT, So let the flaming begin!:D
 

·
Bostick Racing Engines
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Just had one of the Crower solid rollers, (hippo), go bad in my 540 BBC ,(street car) for the second time. First time they had about 2175 miles on them, this time about 2800 miles on them. They replaced them free of charge the first time. had to pay to rebuild them this time. Also cam had to be reground both times.:mad:
Well... every once in a while it is possible that a top shelf quality part goes bad just because of (who knows... part just failed)... but I become suspect of a situation where there is a failure of a top shelf part not just fails once... but twice. Under those circumstances... I'd tend to look for a reason for what is causing that part to have a failure. I mean if you run cheap offshore parts... then yes... it's quite understandable to have two failures in a row... but a Crower lifter... which many consider to be one of the top quality lifters available... then... (???) You know what I mean? On a street car app... first thing I'd want to know would be how much cam... spring pressures... and how much idling around... and what rpm is this thing going to?


I won't assemble a roller engine unless it has Crowers... Isky... or Morel... I know other people have great luck with other stuff... but you know... I just can't afford to eat an engine because the customer wanted to cheap out on one of those parts that kills the most other parts when it fails. Typically during disassembly during a refresh... cleaning the rollers up and giving them a feel for smooth roll and no play will tell you whether one is about to become a failure. During use... having one valve all of a sudden needing more adjustment (going loose) then the others would be a significant reason to investigate further for a possible lifter issue. On my 489 (700 lbs. over the nose springs) I've gone 9 seasons driving the living piss out of the thing without a problem... lifters roll nice each time they come out for a service.
 

·
Bostick Racing Engines
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
the crowers I ran weren't the hippo's, they were just the "Severe Duty"
ones! (way before the hippo's came out) and I had 10+ years on them.
was only about 5 or 6 outings a year, at about a drum +or- per trip of
114oct union76 race fuel. and I would back off the rockers every last
trip of the season. would never run anything BUT CROWERS in a solid
roller application. except maybe jesels, or some other keyway style high-
end type lifter. But then again, I'm one of those old school guys who also
swears by the good ole' REV KIT, So let the flaming begin!:D
Hey... I used to run one up until the last freshen up... just liked the idea of having constant pressure on the roller. But you know... just decided that all those extra springs and bushings and what-not were just more stuff to possibly go awry. Plus springs are much better now than they used to be back when the rev kits came out and were popular.

I have a hard time knocking something that a person has had good luck with and is happy with on their own stuff... I mean it's your ride... only person who has to like what you do with it is you. You know?:D
 

·
AKA Blownjet 468
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
:))THumbsUpright on brother!:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
crower lifters

Well, I can certainly add my 2 cents here. I have been down the "eaten lifter road" twice! It happen on my race car using comp cams solid roller lifters both times. I finally decided to switch to crower and have not had a problem sense. The crowers cost about twice as much as the comp cams lifters but it's cheap insurance in the long run. I had to learn it the hard way. If I had not been a cheap a** in the first place I would have saved countless hours pulling the motor and rebuilding it twice not to mention the $4,000.00 in machine work and parts (metal shavings running through a motor is never a good thing and wipes out a whole lot of stuff!)
I'm currently building a 502 for my warlock and have done a lot of research on the morel hydraulic roller lifters. After talking to Bob Madera (aka:"RM Builder") I'm going to go that direction and have him custom grind a cam for me when I'm at that stage of the build.
 

·
AKA Blownjet 468
Joined
·
1,205 Posts
rmbuilder does know his camshafts! especially when your talking outdrive
applications;)
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
Another couple of areas to consider if you are having low lifter wheel/bearing life and camshaft wear is your oiling. A lot of engine builders will limit/restrict the oil supply to the upper end. The art of restriction helps keep oil in the main and rod bearings but restricts oil to the rockers, lifters and camshaft lobes. Also an oil that is too low of a viscosity for the application will agravate the situation. (when oil is hot, it becomes much thinner)

Gear
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,975 Posts
Another couple of areas to consider if you are having low lifter wheel/bearing life and camshaft wear is your oiling. A lot of engine builders will limit/restrict the oil supply to the upper end. The art of restriction helps keep oil in the main and rod bearings but restricts oil to the rockers, lifters and camshaft lobes. Also an oil that is too low of a viscosity for the application will agravate the situation. (when oil is hot, it becomes much thinner)

Gear
So how do you explain FE Ford 427 that had zero oil supply to the lifters and ran 9500 Rs for days in the 60's Nascar using a flat tappet.

cutting oil to the top is much harder on the springs than the lifters. It a roller bearing. 2strokes run rollers bearings on both ends of the rod and 50 to 1 or less oil ratio and live just fine for years. the direct oil theing is much more important at lower Rs than flat out. Hyd rollers don't have deirect oil and live for years and 100s of thousands of liles in street cars, idling for hours on the freeway. The direct oiling can only sully the bearing. It can pressurize it. It can't create a hydro wedge like plain bearing. I have never ran a set of oiled rollers, but I have nothing against them. But wouldn't pay $10.00 more a set to have it.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
steelcomp was here
Joined
·
26,512 Posts
Well, I can certainly add my 2 cents here. I have been down the "eaten lifter road" twice! It happen on my race car using comp cams solid roller lifters both times. I finally decided to switch to crower and have not had a problem sense. The crowers cost about twice as much as the comp cams lifters but it's cheap insurance in the long run. I had to learn it the hard way. If I had not been a cheap a** in the first place I would have saved countless hours pulling the motor and rebuilding it twice not to mention the $4,000.00 in machine work and parts (metal shavings running through a motor is never a good thing and wipes out a whole lot of stuff!)
I'm currently building a 502 for my warlock and have done a lot of research on the morel hydraulic roller lifters. After talking to Bob Madera (aka:"RM Builder") I'm going to go that direction and have him custom grind a cam for me when I'm at that stage of the build.
You might also give Chris Straub a call on the cam. He's one of our "locals" here and IMO, you won't find a nicer guy to deal with or get a better cam. JMO.
I have a customer who's been having valve train issues that are a result of using cheap "off shore" brand parts, who also just lost the roller off an Isky Red Zone lifter. Split it right in half. The axle is still in the lifter, and that's wiped out the cam lobe. I'm convinced it was due to the valve train issues and some of the same harmonics that were breaking rocker studs. The rest of the lifters seem fine, but they'll all go back to Isky for a freshen up and replace the broken one...once I get it out of the block.:)sphss
 

·
"Need For Speed"
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
So how do you explain FE Ford 427 that had zero oil supply to the lifters and ran 9500 Rs for days in the 60's Nascar using a flat tappet.

cutting oil to the top is much harder on the springs than the lifters. It a roller bearing. 2strokes run rollers bearings on both ends of the rod and 50 to 1 or less oil ratio and live just fine for years. the direct oil theing is much more important at lower Rs than flat out. Hyd rollers don't have deirect oil and live for years and 100s of thousands of liles in street cars, idling for hours on the freeway. The direct oiling can only sully the bearing. It can pressurize it. It can't create a hydro wedge like plain bearing. I have never ran a set of oiled rollers, but I have nothing against them. But wouldn't pay $10.00 more a set to have it.
GN7,

I have no direct experience with the FE 427, but I do have had a fair amount of experience with Dodge and Chevy's running from the lake to the drag strip, etc. With the lifts and pressures we have run with lifts of .850 to 1.050 at the valve, RPM up to 9800 on my BB Comp Eliminator Dodge and open spring pressures well over 1000 lbs, I have seen a lot of wear on the roller needles on both the rockers and lifters. We have run some of the HIPPO lifters in several jetboats with good results.

Crower probably has the best set and Morel also has a good set sold under Bullet, Herbert and others. And I personally am glad to pay well more than $100.00 a set to have them. Seems to have just about doubled the life of the cam/lifter combo.

Roller needle bearings will still wear with heat and pressure:) and when they scatter around the engine they can cause havok not to say what they do to a Weaver pump.
Gear
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top