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Discussion Starter #1
Just heard an interview on the radio with a California State Senator.
He said that illegal's cost the state 20 BILLION a year, every year.:|err:|err


Isn't the state bankrupt?

Maybe TB will explain this to us.
 

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I've read as a nation we spend about 300 billion +.
 

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I question those numbers. California has a population of about 37 million people. If it cost the state 30 billion then that comes to almost $540.00 (20,000,000,000 / 37,000,000) for every man, woman and child; or over $2,000 a year for a family of 4. The US population is around 304 million people. If we use the 300 billion for the US the numbers come out to almost $1,000 (300,000,000,000 / 304,000,000) for every person or about $4,000 for the same family of 4.
 

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I question those numbers. California has a population of about 37 million people. If it cost the state 30 billion then that comes to almost $540.00 (20,000,000,000 / 37,000,000) for every man, woman and child; or over $2,000 a year for a family of 4. The US population is around 304 million people. If we use the 300 billion for the US the numbers come out to almost $1,000 (300,000,000,000 / 304,000,000) for every person or about $4,000 for the same family of 4.
Are you saying the numbers are high or low?
 

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"The" masheenist
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What ever the number is, it"s out of control.
You beat me to it.

If it gets paid for OUT OF OUR TAXES, then it should stop.

If someone want to donate their hard earned money as a charity, to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, then so be it. Otherwise, tough.

Brian
 

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I think the numbers are way too high. I think the California budget is about 135 billion. 30 billion is about 1/7 of the total. For some reason I don’t see that as possible.

Almost all illegal’s come to this country looking for work. Employers hire them because they want cheap minimum wage labor. Cheap labor keeps the cost of goods sold at a low price; something everyone wants. Employers are required to prove the employee has legal status to work in the US. I think all that is required is valid ID and a social security number. I would bet in all cases both documents are bogus. Most employers issue the worker a paycheck, but in some cases they are paid cash. I have more problems with the employer that pays in cash. The only way to pay with cash would be for the company to hide money that does not show on their books. If they did not they would have to create fake documents for the payout; other wise they would pay taxes on it and that would be at a much higher rate then the employee would have paid. Either way they are cheating the Government out of tax money that in turn causes everyone else to pay more taxes to compensate. For those that do get paychecks, they would have normal deductions like any other employee. Some amount would be taken out for Federal and State taxes; they just can’t file a return for any amount over paid. SDI and FICA are deducted at the same rate as any legal employee. Think they will ever see any of that money when they retire? They also spend their money at stores like Wal-Mart, K-mart or Target and pay sales tax like everyone else. So, they actually do contribute to the economy as much as any other minimum wage employee.

Maybe we should look at all the things we would loose if we sent them all back. Think we have enough people willing to work for minimum wage to replace them? Or, are you willing to pay more for certain goods when the price escalates due to higher wages the employer must pay. I don’t like people entering the country illegally, but I also know we need the workers.
 

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The cost of illegals is not offset by the minor tax dollar contribution of this cash society group. To justify illegals by any of these weak minded excuses only perpetuates the problem. They drink more milk than they provide.

Its time to boot them out by making the cost of hiring them so obscene for employers, they won't dare hire one even for day labor. Once they're gone, control the influx of legal migrant workers who pay into the tax base and in turn receive services they would be entitled to. We don't need mom, dad, aunts, uncles and cousins tagging along sucking off the system as the illegals do today.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I think the numbers are way too high. I think the California budget is about 135 billion. 30 billion is about 1/7 of the total. For some reason I don’t see that as possible.

Almost all illegal’s come to this country looking for work. Employers hire them because they want cheap minimum wage labor. Cheap labor keeps the cost of goods sold at a low price; something everyone wants. Employers are required to prove the employee has legal status to work in the US. I think all that is required is valid ID and a social security number. I would bet in all cases both documents are bogus. Most employers issue the worker a paycheck, but in some cases they are paid cash. I have more problems with the employer that pays in cash. The only way to pay with cash would be for the company to hide money that does not show on their books. If they did not they would have to create fake documents for the payout; other wise they would pay taxes on it and that would be at a much higher rate then the employee would have paid. Either way they are cheating the Government out of tax money that in turn causes everyone else to pay more taxes to compensate. For those that do get paychecks, they would have normal deductions like any other employee. Some amount would be taken out for Federal and State taxes; they just can’t file a return for any amount over paid. SDI and FICA are deducted at the same rate as any legal employee. Think they will ever see any of that money when they retire? They also spend their money at stores like Wal-Mart, K-mart or Target and pay sales tax like everyone else. So, they actually do contribute to the economy as much as any other minimum wage employee.

Maybe we should look at all the things we would loose if we sent them all back. Think we have enough people willing to work for minimum wage to replace them? Or, are you willing to pay more for certain goods when the price escalates due to higher wages the employer must pay. I don’t like people entering the country illegally, but I also know we need the workers.
Senator said 20% of the budget is spent on illegals.

Prisons (you do know 30% of the prisoners in Cali in federal prisons are illegal don't you?), education, health (you do know they get free health care in Cali don't you?) transportation, water, power, sanitation, sewer, traffic, crime EVERYTHING!

We would "lose" NOTHING if they went home.:|err:)sphss:)hand
 

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Senator said 20% of the budget is spent on illegals.

Prisons (you do know 30% of the prisoners in Cali in federal prisons are illegal don't you?), education, health (you do know they get free health care in Cali don't you?) transportation, water, power, sanitation, sewer, traffic, crime EVERYTHING!

We would "lose" NOTHING if they went home.:|err:)sphss:)hand
Hey Bratha, how can we pack them up?:D:D
 

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I agree, the contribution does not offset the cost. I’m also not trying to justify, just offering another point of view. As I stated, who will do the work when all those here illegally are sent home. Replacing them with legal employees, if you could find them, making the same wage does not solve the budget problem. Those people will still get the same entitlements along with most of their family members. All people making minimum wage and raising a family will require some sort of assistance. You can’t survive on minimum wage, could you?
We have laws against knowingly hiring illegal’s, we just don’t enforce them. I think we should. Most employers know when they hire an illegal; they do the absolute minimum when it comes to back ground checking. Those employers just want the cheapest labor and they do it because people want cheap products. Look at the So California marine industry; they hire a lot of cheap labor to do the un-skilled labor chores (like sanding, buffing, waxing, polishing, cleaning, carpeting, upholstery). I’m sure this goes on in the other RV type industries along with a lot of construction. Why do you think a company like Wal-Mart prospers? People want the products at the lowest price possible, even if that means paying the employees minimum wages, without any benefits (sick leave, medical, vacation time). Let the other guy suffer as long as you get what you want. I think the hiring of illegal’s drive wages down. Just beware, some day it might be you or one of your family members. Just about every business owner I know will defend the profit they make, but feel others are making too much. I’ve witness what happens when a company selling products with a good margin is faced with a new competitor who under cuts their price. People go to the one with the lowest price. It becomes a downward spiral effect that erodes profit forcing the company to cut cost by hiring less expensive labor; and sometimes that means hiring illegals.
 

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Blah Blah Blah spew complete bullshit etc. then insert idiocracy here... sometimes that means hiring illegals.
For every dime spent on these parasites, it takes three fold in revenue to collect and distribute via administration. I don't see that added into your calculation. It also means that the money spent on them must come from some place else. That place is our childrens future.

These parasites DO NOT WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGE, PERIOD!!! As a licensed contractor in California I continuously competed against those who would hire, pay and support these scum. They never passed the savings along to the customer. It was all pocketed along with what they never payed the state and feds.
If this is how you choose to operate your business then I wish nothing but the wrath of the ILLEGAL upon you.... friend. :)
 

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Didnt Madoff get 165 years in jail he only stole a couple billion.These Illegals are robbing everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Hey Bratha, how can we pack them up?:D:D
Simple,
Make it a felony to be here illegally, change the law that gives legal status to any vermin born on our soil. There is not a politician in this country with enough balls to attempt to enact either course of action though.:|err:|err

For the whiners that keep saying "deys joosts coomes heres to werks" have their countries of origin set up data bases in THEIR country where the vermin must to go home to register in with access from business here that want to rehire employees that have self deported. They can eventually apply for permenent residency but never, ever have the right to vote.:)devil:)devil:)hand


So Steve, are you coming with the kids in September?


Hey itsmea, you do know illegals kill 20,000 American citizens a year don't you?

You don't care as long as it's not someone you know though isn't it?:)sphss:)hand
 

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I think the numbers are way too high. I think the California budget is about 135 billion. 30 billion is about 1/7 of the total. For some reason I don’t see that as possible.

Almost all illegal’s come to this country looking for work. Employers hire them because they want cheap minimum wage labor. Cheap labor keeps the cost of goods sold at a low price; something everyone wants. Employers are required to prove the employee has legal status to work in the US. I think all that is required is valid ID and a social security number. I would bet in all cases both documents are bogus. .
Often when discovered how easy it is to get bogus documents for "work". As mentioned in another thread. Its easy for them to get a full time job under one identity. And other names for welfare and bogus work comp claims, other gov assistance, etcetera. I'm sure Americans of other ethnic backgrounds as well scam the social safety net, etcetera doing the same things. Most of the bogus documents are in Hispanic sounding names, so maybe not entirely just Mexicans. Just appears that way. But enough of them are scamming that its a huge costly problem.

Second misconception is they'll work for pennies compared to Americans. Not true at all. The labor rates are more pure capitalist supply and demand based. Farmer A needs labor and if tries paying less then labor wants good luck finding someone willing to work. Even tougher if farmer B pays more. Second few make enough to pay real taxes as in income taxes.
 

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I think the numbers are way too high. I think the California budget is about 135 billion. 30 billion is about 1/7 of the total. For some reason I don’t see that as possible.

Almost all illegal’s come to this country looking for work. Employers hire them because they want cheap minimum wage labor. Cheap labor keeps the cost of goods sold at a low price; something everyone wants. Employers are required to prove the employee has legal status to work in the US. I think all that is required is valid ID and a social security number. I would bet in all cases both documents are bogus. Most employers issue the worker a paycheck, but in some cases they are paid cash. I have more problems with the employer that pays in cash. The only way to pay with cash would be for the company to hide money that does not show on their books. If they did not they would have to create fake documents for the payout; other wise they would pay taxes on it and that would be at a much higher rate then the employee would have paid. Either way they are cheating the Government out of tax money that in turn causes everyone else to pay more taxes to compensate. For those that do get paychecks, they would have normal deductions like any other employee. Some amount would be taken out for Federal and State taxes; they just can’t file a return for any amount over paid. SDI and FICA are deducted at the same rate as any legal employee. Think they will ever see any of that money when they retire? They also spend their money at stores like Wal-Mart, K-mart or Target and pay sales tax like everyone else. So, they actually do contribute to the economy as much as any other minimum wage employee.

Maybe we should look at all the things we would loose if we sent them all back. Think we have enough people willing to work for minimum wage to replace them? Or, are you willing to pay more for certain goods when the price escalates due to higher wages the employer must pay. I don’t like people entering the country illegally, but I also know we need the workers.
You may want to do some added research on what the actual costs are. Here(nm) it runs on average 35-40k per year to keep one illegal in jail. That number doesn't include the health care, free legal aid, etc. The ER's here are 60-70% illegals. They won't compile that figure, so you know its extremely high. There are parts of town that the schools are made up of predominantly non english speaking students. Where are they from? Not here, thats for sure. Its very easy to get to the 20% threshhold when the actual dollar amounts are looked at. I read a story a couple months back where 3 illegals in Southern California used the ER almost 3k times in a two year period. It sure wouldn't take long for the dollars to get up there with that going on. As far as the labor issue, make welfare recipients do something for the benefits, plain and simple.
 

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I for one would gladly pay extra for products if all illegal aliens
were forced to leave this country. Just look at any city
in NM and you can clearly see the effects of illegal aliens.
make shift housing, trash etc. Even within the city limits
streets are being littered with broke down cars, farm animals in the back yards.

One of my fiends had a illegal family purchase the house next door.
within just a few months a 2 bedroom house was home to about
15 people, trash and cars scattered around the house like something you would see in a bad part of town south of the border. it took him several
calls to the city, to get the code enforcement to issue a citation
for just some of the infractions. he thought his battle was over,
at the court house hearing the Judge threw out the citations
because they were from Mexico and they did not understand the
laws.
well it been a 10 years now and his property values are worth
about 10 percent of what they were because the word got out and now he is surrounded by illegals, he might as well be living in Juarez.

point is its not just about the wages. its about how they affect the quality of AMERICAN life.

So itsmeagain I challenge you to WAKE UP and visit a American community
that has to deal with this everyday. then come back here and tell us some more BS.
 

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I for one would gladly pay extra for products if all illegal aliens
were forced to leave this country. Just look at any city
in NM and you can clearly see the effects of illegal aliens.
make shift housing, trash etc. Even within the city limits
streets are being littered with broke down cars, farm animals in the back yards.

One of my fiends had a illegal family purchase the house next door.
within just a few months a 2 bedroom house was home to about
15 people, trash and cars scattered around the house like something you would see in a bad part of town south of the border. it took him several
calls to the city, to get the code enforcement to issue a citation
for just some of the infractions. he thought his battle was over,
at the court house hearing the Judge threw out the citations
because they were from Mexico and they did not understand the
laws.
well it been a 10 years now and his property values are worth
about 10 percent of what they were because the word got out and now he is surrounded by illegals, he might as well be living in Juarez.

point is its not just about the wages. its about how they affect the quality of AMERICAN life.

So itsmeagain I challenge you to WAKE UP and visit a American community
that has to deal with this everyday. then come back here and tell us some more BS.
Well said.
 

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I for one would gladly pay extra for products if all illegal aliens
were forced to leave this country. Just look at any city
in NM and you can clearly see the effects of illegal aliens.
make shift housing, trash etc. Even within the city limits
streets are being littered with broke down cars, farm animals in the back yards.

One of my fiends had a illegal family purchase the house next door.
within just a few months a 2 bedroom house was home to about
15 people, trash and cars scattered around the house like something you would see in a bad part of town south of the border. it took him several
calls to the city, to get the code enforcement to issue a citation
for just some of the infractions. he thought his battle was over,
at the court house hearing the Judge threw out the citations
because they were from Mexico and they did not understand the
laws.
well it been a 10 years now and his property values are worth
about 10 percent of what they were because the word got out and now he is surrounded by illegals, he might as well be living in Juarez.

point is its not just about the wages. its about how they affect the quality of AMERICAN life.

So itsmeagain I challenge you to WAKE UP and visit a American community
that has to deal with this everyday. then come back here and tell us some more BS.
Please explain what BS you are referring to. What part of my post do you think is inaccurate? Tell me why you think I’m incorrect. Be a man and explain, don’t just call BS and think it’s over and you won. That’s how children do it.

To be honest, your post sounds more like fiction. Any city in New Mexico and 10% of it original value, come on, news media would have been all over that. I notice you did not list an area. Give us a city where your friend lives, we can check it out on Zillow.com and see what depreation they list. Can also use Zillow to check past sale prices. If your statement is true, then I would guess you would have no problem giving us an area. Come on it would only prove your story.
 
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