[Richard Till]

I have bought a pair of used Brodix BB-1 heads with a set of Jesel rockers and need advise. The rockers have CAAS70 stamped on them. I think they are the pro series. The intake bar is stamped with a 19. The exhaust rockers are on individual pedestals and stamped 20. The intake bar is shimmed up .400 and the exhaust .100 with hardened washers. I`ve read on the Jesel site that the rockers don`t have very much travel adjustment on them so shimming must be the path to proper geometry?? I was going to rob the rockers and sell the heads but evidently with the machine work, these rockers are married to the heads. Might it be possible to run the same pushrods that the engine was running with Dart Pro 1 heads and Comp steel rollers with a stud girdle? What advantage might i see with the shaft rockers? Are they worth the effort or do i need to pass em on? I`m running a 475 bbc with a .731/.731 Bullet roller and 265 lbs. seat pressure. This is a lake boat and i know that the cam is too big but all i have at the present time. Thanks in advance for any advise and suggestions. This is a first for me as i don`t even know the right questions to ask.

 

[TNYoungblood]

Richard I was lookin into putting them on my engine and was told I would also have to by different pushrods. And sum heads require some machining to run a shaft rocker. Just what I have learned about them.

 

[Infomaniac]

They are not married to the heads. Take them off and put them on something else. You can buy shims from them or make your own. Some heads need machined first but no big deal. They are the ultimate in rocker. Go to their web site and the setup instructions are there. You can call them with the part number and they will tell you what series they are.

 

[scott foxwell]

They are not married to the heads. Take them off and put them on something else. You can buy shims from them or make your own. Some heads need machined first but no big deal. They are the ultimate in rocker. Go to their web site and the setup instructions are there. You can call them with the part number and they will tell you what series they are.

Actually, they are. Almost every BB head has it's own part number and they are not interchangeable from head to head or year to year. I think AFR has three different p/n's just for their big block heads. The differences are subtle but enough to not work from one head to the next. Dart, Brodix, AFR, Canfield...all different in their own way.
I will say that .400" shims is way more than they should have.

 

[scott foxwell]

I have bought a pair of used Brodix BB-1 heads with a set of Jesel rockers and need advise. The rockers have CAAS70 stamped on them. I think they are the pro series. The intake bar is stamped with a 19. The exhaust rockers are on individual pedestals and stamped 20. The intake bar is shimmed up .400 and the exhaust .100 with hardened washers. I`ve read on the Jesel site that the rockers don`t have very much travel adjustment on them so shimming must be the path to proper geometry?? I was going to rob the rockers and sell the heads but evidently with the machine work, these rockers are married to the heads. Might it be possible to run the same pushrods that the engine was running with Dart Pro 1 heads and Comp steel rollers with a stud girdle? What advantage might i see with the shaft rockers? Are they worth the effort or do i need to pass em on? I`m running a 475 bbc with a .731/.731 Bullet roller and 265 lbs. seat pressure. This is a lake boat and i know that the cam is too big but all i have at the present time. Thanks in advance for any advise and suggestions. This is a first for me as i don`t even know the right questions to ask.

Richard, first, like I said above, .400" shim is unusual. Either the heads must have really long valves and tall installed height, or someone didn't set these up right. It's very unlikely you'll be able to run the same pushrods as before. If the rockers aren't set up right for your cam, there won't be any advantage. They just look cool. You can put just about any length pushrod under a stud mount rocker and make it work. Pushrod lengths for shaft rockers are more fixed, depending on the shims used.
The ideal geometry is the same with shaft rockers as it is with stud mount. Rocker 90* to the valve at half lift. It's a little more complicated to get there with shafts because all the adjustment is done with shims instead of just adjusting the poly lock on the stud. Nice thing about shaft rockers is the geometry can be set up on the bench as long as you know the valve lift.

 

[gn7]

Steel is dead on here. First, .100 under the exhaust isn't unheard of, but .400 under the intake is insane. Don't the exhaust stands bolt to the intake? How the hell do they bolt up with that shim difference??
Two things are possible. The rockers are not married to the heads, but the stands sure as hell are. Like Steel said, they are either setup horribly wrong, or the wrong kit was ordered for the valves used, OR somebody did exactly what you are considering and the stands are for different heads.

You can buy just the stands and use the rockers, or you may even get REAL lucky and the stands fit the Darts better than the do the Brodix.
Either way, the pushrods for shaft rockers is always shorter than shaft rockers.



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[Infomaniac]

Married to the heads in my opinion are those rockers to those heads specifically. I don't see that happening. Duh A Jesel part number for Brodix or Dart but not that pair. The only exception is if the stands were cut down

 

[obnoxious001]

Almost have to wonder if they used .400" on the intake bar instead of machining the heads to make the bar fit properly.

 

[gn7]

Almost have to wonder if they used .400" on the intake bar instead of machining the heads to make the bar fit properly.

You mean to raise stands to clear something in the heads? All that does is really create a horrible geometry. You raise the rocker .400, and the rocker is going to look pretty strange installed. Raise a stud rocker .400 and see if the rocker doesn't look ridiculous. You'd run out of stud long before you get there.
Machining the heads would lower the rocker pads, requiring even thicker shims.

Some heads like the old Edelbrock Victor and Brodix -4 heads require the heads to be machined because the pads are too high to allow a stand thick enough for strength. I have never seen a set of heads that needed the intake rail raised almost a 1/2" to fit.

I would still like to know how you get the exhaust stands to bolt to the intake rail with a .300 difference from design.



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[obnoxious001]

You mean to raise stands to clear something in the heads? All that does is really create a horrible geometry. You raise the rocker .400, and the rocker is going to look pretty strange installed. Raise a stud rocker .400 and see if the rocker doesn't look ridiculous. You'd run out of stud long before you get there.
Machining the heads would lower the rocker pads, requiring even thicker shims.

Some heads like the old Edelbrock Victor and Brodix -4 heads require the heads to be machined because the pads are too high to allow a stand thick enough for strength. I have never seen a set of heads that needed the intake rail raised almost a 1/2" to fit.

I would still like to know how you get the exhaust stands to bolt to the intake rail with a .300 difference from design.

I have done some Brodix BB2 plus heads that require the cylinder head to be machined to allow the intake bar to clear (with T&D shaft rockers, per the T&D instructions). There are areas that obstruct the bar from mounting flush to the pads.

What I was suggesting is that someone may have "cheated" the bar up higher to fit, even though it would make the geometry way off.

 

[gn7]

You mean to raise stands to clear something in the heads? All that does is really create a horrible geometry. You raise the rocker .400, and the rocker is going to look pretty strange installed. Raise a stud rocker .400 and see if the rocker doesn't look ridiculous.

I have done some Brodix BB2 plus heads that require the cylinder head to be machined to allow the intake bar to clear (with T&D shaft rockers, per the T&D instructions). There are areas that obstruct the bar from mounting flush to the pads.

What I was suggesting is that someone may have "cheated" the bar up higher to fit, even though it would make the geometry way off.

Correct me if I am wrong Barry, but isn't that what I said?
Any idea how stupid the rocker would look with the stand raised .400 over design? The rocker would be so over arched when the valve was at max lift, I would surprising the pushrod didn't go into a bind in the adjuster.

There is always the possibility the stands are not for the heads they are used on.

I personally never bought a set of shaft rockers on the cheap at the swap meet and made them work on a different head than they were made for.:shhh:



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[obnoxious001]

You mean to raise stands to clear something in the heads? All that does is really create a horrible geometry. You raise the rocker .400, and the rocker is going to look pretty strange installed. Raise a stud rocker .400 and see if the rocker doesn't look ridiculous. You'd run out of stud long before you get there.
Machining the heads would lower the rocker pads, requiring even thicker shims.

Some heads like the old Edelbrock Victor and Brodix -4 heads require the heads to be machined because the pads are too high to allow a stand thick enough for strength. I have never seen a set of heads that needed the intake rail raised almost a 1/2" to fit.

I would still like to know how you get the exhaust stands to bolt to the intake rail with a .300 difference from design.

Not if you simply machined the heads for clearance, not to change height.

I have a brand new set here that have been milled for the intake bar (purchased direct from T&D for this particular Brodix head), might have to break one out of the box and photograph the setup.

 

[scott foxwell]

Every set of conventional BB Chev. heads I've ever installed shaft rockers on needed some clearance. The latest V2 Afr's only need a little hand grinding but Dart, Canfield, Brodix...all need machining for the intake bar to clear other parts of the casting (usually the tops of the intake runners) and sit down on the rocker pads.

 

[jungledave]

They are not married to the heads. Take them off and put them on something else. You can buy shims from them or make your own. Some heads need machined first but no big deal. They are the ultimate in rocker. Go to their web site and the setup instructions are there. You can call them with the part number and they will tell you what series they are.

Sounds like they were married to a different set if heads and got Divorsed. I have a set of jesses on some afrs. The setup is perfect and no shims. I didn't set them up just got lucky to benefit from someone else's expertise.

 

[Richard Till]

I`ve been working on and eyeballing the BB-1`s today. Completely stripped one of them, then pressure washed and now lapping the valves. These heads have a machined plane from one end to the other on the intake side thats .125 above the intake rocker pads. Sure wish i could make and post pictures. The intake bars were loosely bolted on with the .400 shims underneath. Therefore i don`t know if they were ran that way or part of a shim package that came with the setup and forwarded to me. The exhaust block stands are against but not connected to the intake bar. The intake valve is 2.250 in diameter and 5.530 in length. Exhaust is 1.880 and 5.430 in length. A magnet will stick to the stem but not the heads of the valve. Has also been machined for pushrod clearance. Springs have two coils and a flat damper and have a light blueish/gray stripe on them. 1.625 diameter. I got into this deal half cocked, didn`t do my homework and not knowing that machine work had to be done. Thought i`d put the shaft rockers on the 496 TT with the BB-2 plus and sell the Brodix BB-1`s. Too much trouble. The 496 has comp steel rockers and was running 0`s last fall so it appears i`ll instead have a BBC 475 lake boat with Brodix/Jessel. What a waste? The CAAS70 rockers will run with several different heads but evidently not the stands. Experience for me is sometimes costly but i try not to make the same mistake twice. Big time thanks for all the advise. Its surely helpful and my ears are open to more info or questions. Soon it`ll be time to screw up some geometry.

 

[Richard Till]

I had another observation today. The heads have evidence of brindleing. (Hope thats the right spelling and word.) Its more evident between the cylinders than anywhere else on the circumference. More clamping force there? I think they`ve already been milled because the intake valve margins extend past the milled surface about .010 . I`ve already got more compression then i really wanted. How much brindleing can be tolerated with new fel-pro 1027 gaskets? This is a previous copper gasketed o`ringed block with the ring removed. The metal compression rim on the 1027 gasket fits perfectly between the o`ring groove and the od of the cylinder. Anyone want some free used 4.370 copper gaskets or should i sell em for scrap?

 

[TNYoungblood]

Save your money Richard, that 321 boat is gonna own M/E this year

 

[Richard Till]

Tn, :no: We`ve got a problem. There not enough room at the top for both of us. You`ll have to settle for 2nd place at best. hand You going to New Athens May 17-18?

 

[TNYoungblood]

Tn, :no: We`ve got a problem. There not enough room at the top for both of us. You`ll have to settle for 2nd place at best. hand You going to New Athens May 17-18?

LOL If I can get the boat ready I'd like to make it.